Kino: Buster Keaton: The Short Films Collection (1920-1923)

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#26 Post by **swo17** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:38 pm

Ha, I just meant that out of the nearly 2000 silent films I've seen for this forum's lists projects (hundreds of which are less than a minute long) maybe 100-200 of them featured selective coloring. If you want to count tinting of the entire frame, the numbers go up substantially.

#27 Post by **zedz** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:57 pm

Also, surviving materials are not the best indication of the prevalence of colouring, as applied colours would in many cases have faded completely from surviving silent-era prints, and prints struck later would in most cases not have had tinting or toning applied. Modern recreations of these techniques are very often speculative, adhering to presumed convention (e.g. blue for night scenes) unless you're fortunate enough to find the original tinting / toning instructions, and you can imagine how rare that must be.

Jonathan S · #28 Post by **Jonathan S** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:11 am

Colour in silent films is a very complex subject and I certainly don't understand it fully, but one cannot entirely separate tinting from more elaborate colouring. Paolo Cherchi Usai's book Burning Passions presents examples of brown toning on blue tinting, red mordanting on blue tinting, stencil-colouring on blue toning, etc. My impression is that hand-colouring and stencil-colouring were far more common in European films, especially French ones (Pathe started their stencil-colouring system around 1903). I recall seeing early catalogues where films were offered in both monochrome and coloured versions, the latter being much more expensive. Of course, by the 1920s two-strip Technicolor and other systems were used even in some Hollywood films, usually for special sequences.

Probably the most famous colour film that we know only in black & white is Melies' La Voyage de la Lune. Serge Bromberg (Lobster) discovered a handcoloured print in Spain some years ago, unfortunately in terrible condition, and last I heard was still trying to restore it digitally from what look like guitar picks (the can of film was shown in a BBC documentary a year or two ago). Lobster made an excellent one-hour documentary on early colour systems, released in the US by Flicker Alley as part of the Discovering Cinema set. Fascinating examples are presented as extras.

MichaelB · #29 Post by **MichaelB** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:31 am

The BFI's restoration of The Great White Silence (unveiled at last year's London Film Festival, with a Dual Format release in a couple of months' time) benefited from the survival of the original negative - not just because it meant that the picture would look as good as it possibly could, but because the neg came with Herbert Ponting's own handwritten toning instructions.

The trailer gives a good idea of how it ended up.

matrixschmatrix · #30 Post by **matrixschmatrix** » Wed May 04, 2011 4:04 am

What A Disgrace wrote:Buster Keaton Shorts Collection in July

Kalat's going to be contributing something to the set:

I have already recorded some material that will appear on the Kino Buster Keaton shorts set (not a commentary, but it's a little something)

Presumably it's one of the visual essays listed in the features.

#31 Post by **swo17** » Fri May 06, 2011 9:24 pm

Roger Ryan wrote:I figured they'd go for the shorts on Blu-ray eventually...I wonder if this marks the end of Kino issuing Keaton on Blu-ray with the remaining features being left on SD only?

From Facebook:

Very excited for the Keaton shorts collection on Blu-ray! Are there plans to eventually put out the rest of his features on Blu-ray as well?

Kino wrote:Absolutely!

Also this:

Kino wrote:All the Keaton shorts will be 1080p, except for ONE WEEK, which will be 1080i.

Roger Ryan · #32 Post by **Roger Ryan** » Sun May 08, 2011 5:31 pm

That's good to hear.

By the way, I caught ONE WEEK on TCM-HD a few weeks back and it looked phenomenal; clearly a new HD transfer. I suspected that would probably mean Kino would be reissuing the shorts on Blu sooner than later.

matrixschmatrix · Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:59 am

Exciting news about the Keaton, I'm happy to see them releasing more two at a time. I hope they don't skimp on the other features.

knives · #34 Post by **knives** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:45 am

I absolutely love Battling so this is going to be highly anticipated by me. It's seriously like top ten Keatons for me.

Roger Ryan · #35 Post by **Roger Ryan** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:00 pm

knives wrote:I absolutely love Battling so this is going to be highly anticipated by me. It's seriously like top ten Keatons for me.

I don't dislike any of Keaton's silent features, but BATTLING BUTLER is only a bit above THE SAPHEAD and SPITE MARRIAGE as the least interesting to me. All the same, this is fantastic news as THE NAVIGATOR, SEVEN CHANCES and COLLEGE are all higher profile films that I now feel assured Kino will release on Blu.

knives · #36 Post by **knives** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:09 pm

I can see why, and I'm probably the odd man out, but it works for me far better than it should.

matrixschmatrix · #37 Post by **matrixschmatrix** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:58 pm

Roger Ryan wrote:
knives wrote:I absolutely love Battling so this is going to be highly anticipated by me. It's seriously like top ten Keatons for me.
I don't dislike any of Keaton's silent features, but BATTLING BUTLER is only a bit above THE SAPHEAD and SPITE MARRIAGE as the least interesting to me. All the same, this is fantastic news as THE NAVIGATOR, SEVEN CHANCES and COLLEGE are all higher profile films that I now feel assured Kino will release on Blu.

If I recall correctly, Kino has said the whole Art of Buster Keaton set was going to find its way to blu sooner or later. Definitely releasing the shorts and this reinforce that, though.

#38 Post by **swo17** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:14 pm

From Kino's Facebook page 5/6/11:

Very excited for the Keaton shorts collection on Blu-ray! Are there plans to eventually put out the rest of his features on Blu-ray as well?

Kino wrote:Absolutely!

matrixschmatrix · Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:08 am

The Keaton Blu set showed up today, and I'm impressed- the prints are still damaged, of course, but the depth and sharpness is very impressive. I particularly enjoyed that on several of the more damaged shorts, Cops and The High Sign and a few others, Kino gives you the choice of watching it with or without DNR.

The visual essays and other extras are all really excellent, too. There's enough content in the MoC set that isn't here that they don't feel totally redundant, but I have to say that even apart from the HD aspect I would probably pick this one out of the two.

manicsounds · #40 Post by **manicsounds** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:56 am

Since many of the shorts that showed up on the MoC DVD set are not in this Kino BD set, is it safe to say there will be a volume 2 sometime in the future?

#41 Post by **swo17** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:05 am

I think it's just the Keaton/Arbuckle ones that were left off, which are presumably of lesser interest, so I kind of doubt it.

matrixschmatrix · #42 Post by **matrixschmatrix** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:09 am

Yeah, I'm pretty sure all the ones not in the Kino set are Fatty Arbuckle shorts in which Keaton appeared, rather than Keaton shorts per se- it starts with The High Sign, which was Keaton's first solo effort.

Although it would be really interesting to do another set with the Arbuckle ones and the later Educational shorts at some point.

Roger Ryan · #43 Post by **Roger Ryan** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:53 pm

Yes, the Kino set has all 19 shorts that Keaton made for his own company between 1920 and 1923. After that, he moved into features exclusively until the sound era.

Jonathan S · #44 Post by **Jonathan S** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:38 am

I don't have the new Keaton shorts set, but several reports on Nitrateville indicate that some of the shorts (Hard Luck, Day Dreams and Convict 13) are less complete and/or use inferior quality prints - or sequences - to those found in previous DVD releases (including the Hard Luck print on Kino's own Keaton Plus) as Kino were unable to re-license the material from Lobster Films - perhaps the latter are planning their own new edition? In some cases, the Kino prints are better. (This is all a separate issue from transfer/HD quality.) But some may wish to hang on to their previous DVD releases, such as the Arte and MoC editions, that include the now missing Lobster footage - as well as the Arbuckle shorts, of course.

Edit: According to a new Nitrateville report, The Love Nest is complete on the new set, slightly more so than on the Lobster DVD releases.

Roger Ryan · #45 Post by **Roger Ryan** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:45 pm

Jonathan S wrote:I don't have the new Keaton shorts set, but several reports on Nitrateville indicate that some of the shorts (Hard Luck, The Love Nest, Day Dreams and Convict 13) are less complete and/or use inferior quality prints - or sequences - to those found in previous DVD releases (including the Hard Luck print on Kino's own Keaton Plus) as Kino were unable to re-license the material from Lobster Films...

That is off-putting. The restored footage in DAYDREAMS doesn't really amount to much, but the KEATON PLUS version of HARD LUCK is definitive given that the entire concluding gag (which Keaton considered one of his best) was restored. Kino's earlier issue attempted to reconstruct the ending with stills which is probably what appears on the Blu-ray.

Jonathan S · #46 Post by **Jonathan S** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:52 am

Roger Ryan wrote: Kino's earlier issue attempted to reconstruct the ending with stills which is probably what appears on the Blu-ray.

This is confirmed by the blu-ray.com review by someone who seems unaware of the more recent restoration with the complete ending which has been widely released on DVD:

Casey Broadwater wrote:For over sixty years, Hard Luck was believed to be lost, but partially complete prints were eventually found and in 1987 the film was reassembled and restored from several elements.... Unfortunately, the film's final gag—which Keaton considered one of his best—is still missing. In this long-lost scene, Keaton dives off a high dive and, missing the pool below, leaves a hole in the ground. After an intertitle reading "Years Later," Keaton emerges from the hole with a Chinese wife and children. Unfortunately, aside from a shot of Keaton climbing the high dive ladder, a shot of people looking down the hole, and a still photograph of Buster with his new Chinese family, the action of this scene is left entirely to our imaginations.

Askew · #47 Post by **Askew** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:41 pm

Does the MoC release includes the restored ending?

matrixschmatrix · #48 Post by **matrixschmatrix** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:18 pm

Yes. I have both and just checked them- the Kino disc is missing the ending, and has an explanation at the beginning about how it's lost. The MoC disc has the ending, albeit in incredibly rough shape.

Askew · #49 Post by **Askew** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:07 pm

Thanks. It looks like I'll definitely need to get both, there are just too many exclusives in each.

agnamaracs · #50 Post by **agnamaracs** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:11 pm

I wonder how they could have forgotten about the ending. I mean, it doesn't look the best, but neither do the restored scenes from Metropolis, and that made it onto Blu...

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