Kino

[MichaelB]

IMDb has incorrect technical specs all the time. They list Yukio Mishima's YUKOKU as being in color, for instance.

I remember having an argument many years ago with someone about Kurosawa's Ran being in Scope - his source was the IMDB, mine was the experience of physically handling a 35mm print. For some reason, that didn't seem to count for much against the mighty and infallible IMDB - though I see it's been corrected in the meantime.

I've always seen Paradjanov's films projected at the Academy aspect ratio, and he certainly never shot anything in 'scope--unlike Tarkovsky. He did propose some 'scope films, though, so I don't think he was opposed to the widescreen format per se.

With Paradjanov, the compositions are usually so precise that any cropping would be glaring in the extreme. I've certainly never seen his films shown at anything other than Academy, and I think there's no question that this is the correct ratio for the four famous titles.

[zedz]

With Paradjanov, the compositions are usually so precise that any cropping would be glaring in the extreme. I've certainly never seen his films shown at anything other than Academy, and I think there's no question that this is the correct ratio for the four famous titles.

I saw Shadows of Our Forgotten Ancestors projected in 1.85 once: a painful experience. When I asked the projectionist about it, his alarming response was that the film was so visually spectacular that it "deserved" to be in widescreen for "maximum impact". Unfortunately, there were other people around, so I didn't think I could get away with throttling him.

[Tommaso]

The Ruscico disc is 1.33 and looks perfect this way, so no need to worry. But good to see that Jsteffe has alerted Kino about the language problem, so let's hope everything goes well. Of course Kino could always put the soundtrack of their old disc on the new transfer if the Russians fail to give them the original version, but with Kino one never knows what they do.... Fingers crossed... how I'd LOVE to see the film again in an acceptable version...

[jsteffe]

Of course Kino could always put the soundtrack of their old disc on the new transfer if the Russians fail to give them the original version

I thought about something like this while back. Theoretically it might be possible. You would have to re-encode the soundtrack to account for the PAL-NTSC frame rate (and speed) difference.

However, that's assuming that both prints of LEGEND OF SURAM FORTRESS used for the NTSC (Kino) and PAL (Ruscico) transfers have the exact same number of frames, and in fact they don't. For instance, the shot where the young Vardo starts rocking back and forth and is replaced by the middle-aged Vardo is actually little longer in the Ruscico version. Look at her position at the beginning of both shots... They would have to edit either the visual track or the re-encoded soundtrack to make them conform.

It would also be a big headache to synchronize, since all the dialogue was post-dubbed (like the Italians) and Paradjanov didn't strive for exact synchronization. Look closely at the actors' lips in NTSC Kino soundtrack, which appears to be otherwise properly synched with the image.

This wouldn't affect the synchronization issue, but another thing I noticed is that the prints used for the video transfers on both the old Kino DVD and the British Film Institute PAL VHS tape have some scenes which are deliberately timed as "night" scenes, but they're significantly brighter on the Ruscico transfer.

Edit: OK, one more post on this issue about the soundtrack used for Kino's upcoming re-release of THE LEGEND OF SURAM FORTRESS. A source at Kino informed me on the latest news. My apologies in advance if I am misstating anything, but I'm trying my best to be accurate.

Kino is very much aware of the issue and will be using the original Georgian soundtrack on the DVD, at least where they can. As I mentioned in a previous email elsewhere on this forum, a few years back there was a major fire at the Georgian film archive. My fears that THE LEGEND OF SURAM FORTRESS was one of the affected films appear to be correct. According to the source at Kino, portions of the Georgian-language audio were apparently lost or destroyed in the fire. These will be replaced on the DVD with about 4 minutes of the Russian voiceover soundtrack taken from a different internegative. They will be putting a technical advisory about this problem at the beginning of the DVD. Frankly, it seems like a reasonable solution to a very sad situation.

[MichaelB]

Frankly, it seems like a reasonable solution to a very sad situation.

I agree, and full marks to them for trying. I'll almost certainly be getting this now.

[Lino]

Frankly, it seems like a reasonable solution to a very sad situation.

I agree, and full marks to them for trying. I'll almost certainly be getting this now.

The only drawback to this potentially amazing boxset will be the POMEGRANATES disc which most certainly will be the old, still in print one. How do I know this? Just by looking at the spine of the set on Amazon. And we all know how that disc looks like, don't we?

[atcolomb]

Shadows is one of my favorite films of all time so to finally see it on a region 1 dvd is great news. I hope Kino will try and get a good print to use. My VHS video version has poor washed out colors and print damage.

[jsteffe]

Shadows is one of my favorite films of all time so to finally see it on a region 1 dvd is great news. I hope Kino will try and get a good print to use. My VHS video version has poor washed out colors and print damage.

If it looks anything like the French DVD, people will be pretty happy. I saw a newly struck print of SHADOWS OF FORGOTTEN ANCESTORS several years back and thought the French DVD reflected that experience fairly well. That print appeared to have some diffusion in the image, BTW, and the French DVD has roughly the same amount from what I remember, so the very slight softness in the image is probably a reflection of the print used.

The way the yellow scarf popped out, almost shockingly, when Ivan's father approaches the camera with his hatchet in hand, reminded me of why Paradjanov was a genius. Nothing beats a good 35mm print with proper projection, but it's a relief to see that this masterpiece of world cinema won't just fade away in the public's memory along with the VHS era.

[HerrSchreck]

It maybe a typo but for some reason imdb has is as a 1 to 2.35 release (not that its' necessarily authoritative.. since its' fuckin imdb). Be interesting to see what pops here.

IMDb has incorrect technical specs all the time. They list Yukio Mishima's YUKOKU as being in color, for instance.

I know. Didn't you sort've get that's why I said "not that it's necessarily authoritative since it's fucking imdb"??.

[Tommaso]

According to the source at Kino, portions of the Georgian-language audio were apparently lost or destroyed in the fire. These will be replaced on the DVD with about 4 minutes of the Russian voiceover soundtrack taken from a different internegative. They will be putting a technical advisory about this problem at the beginning of the DVD. Frankly, it seems like a reasonable solution to a very sad situation.

Thanks, jsteffe, for informing us. Truly a very, very sad and actually rather unbelievable situation. Are there NO prints circulating anywhere with the full original language version that could be used to restore these 4 minutes? I always thought that only silent films needed the help of film archives around the world to be restored, and now this happens to a film not even 25 years old.... And all the more rage against Ruscico for their original disc, then. If they had had sense to release it with the Georgian track from the beginning, there wouldn't be a problem now (always supposing that at the time they made the master used for their disc the fire hadn't occured yet). Well, I'll buy the Kino nevertheless, but it's a shame. As if Paradjanov hadn't been mistreated enough by the Russians during his lifetime.

[MichaelB]

(always supposing that at the time they made the master used for their disc the fire hadn't occured yet).

The fire was a good couple of years after the disc came out.

[jsteffe]

Truly a very, very sad and actually rather unbelievable situation. Are there NO prints circulating anywhere with the full original language version that could be used to restore these 4 minutes? I always thought that only silent films needed the help of film archives around the world to be restored, and now this happens to a film not even 25 years old.... And all the more rage against Ruscico for their original disc, then. If they had had sense to release it with the Georgian track from the beginning, there wouldn't be a problem now (always supposing that at the time they made the master used for their disc the fire hadn't occured yet). Well, I'll buy the Kino nevertheless, but it's a shame. As if Paradjanov hadn't been mistreated enough by the Russians during his lifetime.

I'm sure there are still 35mm prints of THE LEGEND OF SURAM FORTRESS with an original Georgian optical soundtrack out there in some archive. I understand that an archive in Germany has a significant collection of Georgian films, albeit with German subtitles. And what happened to the French-subtitled prints of Georgian films that were shown at the Pompidou Center retrospective in the late 1980s? But tracking the prints down and having new audio or audio/video transfers to replace the missing sound might cost more money than Kino would make back from this particular title.

There's no reason to assume, without asking Ruscico directly, that they didn't try initially to get a Georgian language soundtrack for THE LEGEND OF SURAM FORTRESS, since they've done it with all their other Georgian films so far. Remember that they have to acquire their materials from the Gosfilmofond archive in Russia or from studio prints. It was extremely common in the Soviet Union to release non-Russian Soviet films with either full dubbing or voiceover translation outside of their republic of origin--it wouldn't surprise me if MOST of the prints that were struck were dubbed, as a consequence. (Apart from export prints.) So it's not difficult to see how that Russian voiceover version might suddenly become the only soundtrack material that people can locate any more.

On the other hand, LEGEND was one of Ruscico's earlier Georgian releases, so it's always possible that they didn't pay attention to the soundtrack issue for that particular DVD.

At least you can still hear the original Georgian soundtrack on the older Kino DVD release. I hope they keep it in print for that reason, even if at a reduced price. However, it's based on an NTSC 24fps tape master which necessarily runs slower than the Ruscico PAL-based transfer, and thus won't sync up through normal methods.

[Tommaso]

But tracking the prints down and having new audio or audio/video transfers to replace the missing sound might cost more money than Kino would make back from this particular title.

You're quite right of course, and I'm well aware of Kino's situation, so no blame on them from me. What alternatives are there? The hope that the French (i.e. FsF) might one day put one of their prints on disc? Well, maybe, but I have no idea how well their two other Paradjanov discs sold. I had hoped for "Surami" and "Ashik" coming from FsF soon after the other two films, but absolutely nothing from them yet, so I guess there's little to expect from them.

At least you can still hear the original Georgian soundtrack on the older Kino DVD release. I hope they keep it in print for that reason, even if at a reduced price. However, it's based on an NTSC 24fps tape master which necessarily runs slower than the Ruscico PAL-based transfer, and thus won't sync up through normal methods.

Hmm... but there has always been an NTSC version of the Ruscico "Surami" (with much worse picture quality). Question would be whether this already ran slower or was just the PAL runtime as well. As to syncing up: it surely COULD be done via normal time-stretching tools (in this case, time-compressing the Kino NTSC to the Ruscico PAL) available in any comparatively cheap audio-editing software. Again: I'm fully aware of Kino's financial means, but in this case I'd say: If this was a Criterion release, CC would surely do it.

[ptmd]

I'd say: If this was a Criterion release, CC would surely do it.

Except, of course, that Criterion would never touch a film like this. Their discs of Soviet films are very impressive, but, aside from Ballad of a Soldier and The Cranes are Flying, they've never strayed outside the domains of Eisenstein and Tarkovsky (and even there they haven't touched less accessible titles like Nostalghia, which is direly in need of an adequate DVD). I'm very glad that Kino is taking the chance on a new version of a DVD that they can't possibly have sold that many copies of in the first place.

[Tribe]

I'm fully aware of Kino's financial means, but in this case I'd say: If this was a Criterion release, CC would surely do it.

Exactly. Kino simply doesn't do the work themselves. This isn't being critical...Kino is just not that kind of DVD company. They purchase the rights from a pre-existing transfer and don't invest in any work on the transfer.

I'm happy someone is working on getting this stuff out, regardless of my qualms about other things that Kino doesn't do.

Tribe

[Tommaso]

I'm happy someone is working on getting this stuff out, regardless of my qualms about other things that Kino doesn't do.

Me too!! I was just describing an ideal situation... and indeed, why CC wouldn't touch Paradjanov is beyond me. He certainly is not an overly well known director, especially in the US (I think it was Schreck who used the word 'obscure' in this context), but the same could be said about Makavejev or Bernard. The Paradjanovs would have made a truly nice Eclipse set if they didn't have the balls to give them a full CC release.

Anyway, praise to Kino for doing these discs AT ALL, and finally righting the "Ashik" situation for US audiences at least.

[souvenir]

DVD Beaver comparison of the Kino Battleship Potemkin is up and it indeed looks incredible, much more information in the frame than the previous releases too. It definitely seems to deserve more enthusiasm than what Gary has written.

[domino harvey]

They use "People and Worms" in place of the infamous "The Men and the Maggots"? Unacceptable.

[MichaelB]

They use "People and Worms" in place of the infamous "The Men and the Maggots"? Unacceptable.

When I first saw it, it was the more staccato "Men and Maggots", which I thought was even more effective.

(And arguably more accurate, since Russian doesn't use articles).

[jsteffe]

DVD Beaver comparison of the Kino Battleship Potemkin is up and it indeed looks incredible, much more information in the frame than the previous releases too. It definitely seems to deserve more enthusiasm than what Gary has written.

Time to be snarky. Mr. Tooze obviously didn't watch the special features on the set very carefully or do any background research on the restoration. The reason why the Kino DVD runs shorter, at 69 minutes, is because the new restoration is not overly slowed down via stretch printing, unlike the older Soviet restoration used for the Image DVD. Also, the intertitles in the Patalas restoration have a shorter running time which is closer to how they were originally presented. So you have a more briskly paced version which still has more footage than the one with the longer running time.

Even with the interlacing, the Kino image looks dramatically better than the Image DVD, and the film flows better. It's exciting to watch, the way it should be, especially with the Meisel score.

They use "People and Worms" in place of the infamous "The Men and the Maggots"? Unacceptable.

Actually, "People and Worms" is a more accurate translation of "Liudi i chervi" in the Russian. Eisenstein is deliberately using the word "worms" here instead of "maggots" (lichinki).

[MichaelB]

The Paradjanovs would have made a truly nice Eclipse set if they didn't have the balls to give them a full CC release.

Actually, what would make a really nice Eclipse set would be a box of Paradjanov's pre-1964 films - which he reputedly disowned, but others have said they're a lot better than this suggests (if nowhere near as formally radical as what came later).

Actually, "People and Worms" is a more accurate translation of "Liudi i chervi" in the Russian. Eisenstein is deliberately using the word "worms" here instead of "maggots" (lichinki).

I suspected as much, given the original translation is so iconic - though it's a bit like the revamped opening to Touch of Evil: it may be closer to Welles' intentions, but I still have the Henry Mancini score playing in my head whenever I watch the DVD!

What's more of an issue is that Kino seem to have ditched the original Russian titles, which is less damaging than Tartan dropping the Russian titles for Strike (where they're part of the overall graphic conception), but it still makes this edition fall short of being definitive.

[souvenir]

What's more of an issue is that Kino seem to have ditched the original Russian titles, which is less damaging than Tartan dropping the Russian titles for Strike (where they're part of the overall graphic conception), but it still makes this edition fall short of being definitive.

I'm not following you here. Disc 1 has English intertitles and the second disc has Russian intertitles. What original Russian titles are missing?

[MichaelB]

I'm not following you here. Disc 1 has English intertitles and the second disc has Russian intertitles. What original Russian titles are missing?

Fair enough - sorry, I missed that bit.

(I don't have the Kino myself, as I'm waiting to see what the BFI version's like)

[jsteffe]

Actually, what would make a really nice Eclipse set would be a box of Paradjanov's pre-1964 films - which he reputedly disowned, but others have said they're a lot better than this suggests (if nowhere near as formally radical as what came later).

I've seen all of his early features multiple times. They're not that bad, and they have some effective directorial touches here and there. But even if Paradjanov is one of my favorite directors, I honestly can't say they'd justify a video release in the U.S.

If given a choice I'd prefer to focus resources on releasing major Soviet films like Kalatozov's The Letter That Wasn't Sent, Marlen Khutsiev's The Ilyich Gate/I Am Twenty, Kira Muratova's Brief Encounters, or Alexei German's My Friend Ivan Lapshin. (I believe Kino has the rights to the latter. Hello, Kino?) Or how about more Georgian cinema, like Giorgi Shengelaia's Pirosmani or the films of Lana Gogoberidze? Or Sokurov's earlier Russian films? Those are all more artistically rewarding and historically important than the early Paradjanov films, in my view.

[HerrSchreck]

DVD Beaver comparison of the Kino Battleship Potemkin is up and it indeed looks incredible, much more information in the frame than the previous releases too. It definitely seems to deserve more enthusiasm than what Gary has written.

Time to be snarky. Mr. Tooze obviously didn't watch the special features on the set very carefully or do any background research on the restoration. The reason why the Kino DVD runs shorter, at 69 minutes, is because the new restoration is not overly slowed down via stretch printing, unlike the older Soviet restoration used for the Image DVD. Also, the intertitles in the Patalas restoration have a shorter running time which is closer to how they were originally presented. So you have a more briskly paced version which still has more footage than the one with the longer running time.

Even with the interlacing, the Kino image looks dramatically better than the Image DVD, and the film flows better. It's exciting to watch, the way it should be, especially with the Meisel score.

I cant even believe Gary brought that up (did he even watch the doc which addresses the frame rate vis a vis the stretchframing for television speed, on this film which is supposed to run between 16-18fps if memory serves) it's such an elementary issue.. attributing it to PAL/NTSC is a gaffe. I'm the wrong guy to post this on his dedicated thread but someone should point it out. For an accurate review from a co that is hard on Kino when need be is the above mentioned review from DigitallyObsessed:

Image Transfer
Aspect Ratio 1.33:1 - Full Frame
Original Aspect Ratio yes
Anamorphic no

Image Transfer Review: Obviously the medium was in its infancy when this film was made, and technical standards (aspect ratio, frames per second) hadn't yet been codified. Given the technical strictures faced by Eisenstein, then, this transfer is kind of a wonder&38212the film has been restored extensively and brought lovingly to DVD. You'll see occasional flickers and more than a few scratches, but this is unquestionably a definitive edition.
Image Transfer Grade: A

Audio Transfer
Language Remote Access
DS 2.0 musical score only yes
Dolby Digital
5.1 musical score only yes

Audio Transfer Review: No doubt, faithful dOc reader, you've been champing at the bit for the audio transfer review of a silent movie. What's here is in fact the original 1926 score for the film, in either 2.0 or 5.1—either sounds fine, and composer Edmund Meisel makes liberal use of the Marseillaise as the anthem for revolution.
Audio Transfer Grade: B+

Disc Extras
Full Motion menu with music
Scene Access with 20 cues and remote access
Subtitles/Captions in English with remote access
1 Documentaries
Packaging: Tri-Fold Amaray with slipcase
2 Discs
1-Sided disc(s)
Layers: dual

Extra Extras:
photo galleries
accompanying booklet
Extras Review: The film appears in two forms in this set: the first disc has it with newly translated English intertitles, while the second has it with its original Russian intertitles and optional English subtitles. Disc One also has Tracing The Battleship Potemkin (42m:24s), a German production that looks at the various versions of the film that have been released, re-edited and bowdlerized over the years, due to parrying with Communism, censorship, carelessness and decay. It's a good watch, but the set could have offered more cultural and historical context, so it seems like something of a missed opportunity. Also on the first disc are three photo galleries: the first shows Eisenstein at work on the set; the second offers stills from deleted scenes and sequences; and the last is a collection of international posters. The accompanying booklet offers brief but useful notes on the film by Bruce Bennett.
Extras Grade: B

Final Comments
Superlatives get tossed around too easily—every week seems to bring another movie of the year, every year an instant classic, if you believe the pull quotes—but it's no exaggeration to say that no film has been more important to the history of the medium than Battleship Potemkin. What may stun you is what a rousing pageant of a movie it is, no tepid exercise in formalism or theory. It looks remarkably fine on this set, which couldn't be recommended more highly.