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CSM126 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2026 5:43 pm I wonder if the English dub lends the show some kind of coherent plot. Probably not.

That quite helpfully is where End Of Evangelion comes to the rescue! But seriously they're using the classic dub because the latest dub was funded by Netflix. I prefer the classic dub for End Of Evangelion fwiw.

Jean-Luc Garbo wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2026 6:51 pm

CSM126 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2026 5:43 pm I wonder if the English dub lends the show some kind of coherent plot. Probably not.

That quite helpfully is where End Of Evangelion comes to the rescue! But seriously they're using the classic dub because the latest dub was funded by Netflix. I prefer the classic dub for End Of Evangelion fwiw.

I am not going to watch that whole series and then a movie just to find out what the story is. I got five episodes in and nothing resembling a plot had even started to form around the random events they spammed at the screen.

My friends wonder why I dislike anime generally and it’s because most of it is like this and, I dunno, a story would be nice for so many hours of my time.

CSM -- disliking ALL anime because of seeing one notoriously impenetrable one seems a bit . . . extreme. (I've never bothered to watch it because of it -- and Anno's -- reputation). I assure MOST of anime is NOT like this. (Lots of shows may be problematic -- but not for this reason).

I wish Criterion would get hold of MTV properties Aeon Flux, The Maxx, Downtown and Liquid Television, none of which have received upgrades since getting released on DVD. I think Daria & Beavis And Butthead may have been bought up by someone since airing on MTV so they would probably be more difficult.

Michael Kerpan wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2026 7:24 pmCSM -- disliking ALL anime because of seeing one notoriously impenetrable one seems a bit . . . extreme. (I've never bothered to watch it because of it -- and Anno's -- reputation). I assure MOST of anime is NOT like this. (Lots of shows may be problematic -- but not for this reason).

That’s not what I said, but ok. I’ve tried other anime and most of what I saw was impenetrable stuff like that. There’s a lot of hyperactive nonsense, which just isn’t for me most of the time. I mean, Studio Ghibli of course has made some lovely anime films and I’m sure there’s plenty I haven’t seen that are nice.

All I said was that a large chunk of the stuff I have been exposed to was bad and confusingly plotless. Admittedly I got a bad start because my first ever anime was Akira, which is awful. But I do like some anime.

Lowry_Sam wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2026 7:56 pmI wish Criterion would get hold of MTV properties Aeon Flux, The Maxx, Downtown and Liquid Television, none of which have received upgrades since getting released on DVD. I think Daria & Beavis And Butthead may have been bought up by someone since airing on MTV so they would probably be more difficult.

Daria and B&B are doubtlessly lost in music rights hell that nobody would want to cough up the money to fix.

CSM126 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2026 7:14 pm

Jean-Luc Garbo wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2026 6:51 pm

CSM126 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2026 5:43 pm I wonder if the English dub lends the show some kind of coherent plot. Probably not.

That quite helpfully is where End Of Evangelion comes to the rescue! But seriously they're using the classic dub because the latest dub was funded by Netflix. I prefer the classic dub for End Of Evangelion fwiw.

I am not going to watch that whole series and then a movie just to find out what the story is. I got five episodes in and nothing resembling a plot had even started to form around the random events they spammed at the screen.

My friends wonder why I dislike anime generally and it’s because most of it is like this and, I dunno, a story would be nice for so many hours of my time.

Evangelion is widely understood to go completely off the rails 2/3 in, becoming this surreal, near-abstract excavation of the main character's consciousness. As a result the series has no proper ending, but it concludes in a fascinating way. The follow up movie, in addition to completing the main plot, is also a full-throated indictment of obsessive anime fandoms and all their worst tendencies (an ambivalent one, as Evangelion played an oversized role in cultivating some of the more unhealthy attitudes, like 'fan service').

I had a lot of issues with the first two thirds of the show, but found it worth watching just to get to that magnificent final third where the creative team just goes mental. So, yes, if you're looking for coherent plotting and controlled storytelling, Evangelion isn't that. It's weird, symbolic, and introspective rather than narrative focused, and that's true even before it abandons even trying to tell a story. But there are pleasures in there amid the more trying material.

CSM126 wrote:That’s not what I said, but ok. I’ve tried other anime and most of what I saw was impenetrable stuff like that. There’s a lot of hyperactive nonsense, which just isn’t for me most of the time. I mean, Studio Ghibli of course has made some lovely anime films and I’m sure there’s plenty I haven’t seen that are nice.

All I said was that a large chunk of the stuff I have been exposed to was bad and confusingly plotless. Admittedly I got a bad start because my first ever anime was Akira, which is awful. But I do like some anime.

Have you tried things like Metropolis, The Girl Who Leapt Through Time, Summer Wars, or Patema Inverted? They're coherent and well plotted, and not overly manic. Your Name is also charming and moving, tho' it does get quite excessive at the end. The Patlabor movies are terrific political thrillers. Satoshi Kon's movies are usually quite ambiguous and puzzling, but his big crowd-pleasing holiday film, Tokyo Godfathers, is lovely. Try it out. And if you don't mind something a bit out there so long as it's charming and creative, try Night is Short, Walk on Girl. It's not your typical kind of story, but it's not hard to follow, either.

No need to let these early experiences of yours become a settled prejudice. Anime is a medium rather than a genre. There's a variety of stuff to find, some of which you might come to dearly love.

My sons aand I made it about 15 minutes into Akira and turned it off. We decided that it had already used up its whole allotted quota of explosions.

You might want to check out the work of Naoko Yamada -- such as Heike Monoigatari and the currently-airing Jaadugar.

Welcome to the NHK is another coherent and clearly plotted. Like any national form of an art, after all we’re really just talking about televised cartoons from Japan, there is a tremendous amount of variety and something for everybody. It just happens to be arrested adolescent males first took note of anime so that’s the larger impression that is made in the Anglo-sphere. Watch a shojo show as a good antidote.

CSM126 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2026 9:04 pm

Lowry_Sam wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2026 7:56 pmI wish Criterion would get hold of MTV properties Aeon Flux, The Maxx, Downtown and Liquid Television, none of which have received upgrades since getting released on DVD. I think Daria & Beavis And Butthead may have been bought up by someone since airing on MTV so they would probably be more difficult.

Daria and B&B are doubtlessly lost in music rights hell that nobody would want to cough up the money to fix.

Well, they're not lost, it's just that the DVDs replace most of the music on Daria and drop almost all of the music video segments from Beavis and Butt-Head. Another issue with the latter is that Mike Judge doesn't like a lot of the episodes and seemingly doesn't want them out there (which is why he had The History of Beavis and Butt-Head collection pulled a few days after release).

A broader question is whether HD versions are possible. For Aeon Flux the animation was shot on film and they were able to go back to that for the 2005 remasters, though it meant effectively redoing the post-production since all that had been done on video. I don't know if that would be possible for all of the others (or whether the Aeon Flux remasters were done in HD or SD). And I doubt a complete Liquid Television release can ever happen, due to both the music and the fact that a lot of segments were existing material for which MTV probably only had limited rights.