Current Events: The Firing of James Gunn

[domino harvey]

The new guy apparently gave a talk on the virtues of evangelism, so I doubt ambiguity is on the menu

[Never Cursed]

He also produced the Iron Man movies and the Dungeons and Dragons movie, so I imagine that just means he likes money and won't sign off on R-rated fare (unless it makes money). It's not as though these films haven't had comical levels of Christian subtext before (see: the hilariously overblown Jesus imagery in Man of Steel). The sun will rise in the morning, the Pope will be Catholic, DC movies will continue to not be worth your time, etc.

[knives]

Their tv shows though…
Lanterns was legit great and I’d love to see more of it.

[hearthesilence]

IIRC the extras on the DVD for Tim Burton's Batman includes an interview with Michael E. Uslan, and when he was a junior trying to get permission to teach a class on comic books at Indiana University, he sold the idea that comic books were more substantive than people realized when he asked a dean to recount the original of Superman and then recount the story of Moses. (The way Uslan tells it, the guy barely started talking about Moses when he got the point.) I'm not exactly a believer, but Christian symbolism in superhero comics is an ancient discussion - doesn't really feel like a big deal if they wanted to cultivate that, presuming they don't inflate and warp it into something nuttier.

EDIT: Found an article on this. Relevant section here:

Now that Michael Uslan had completed all of the preliminary steps, his last obstacle was convincing a panel consisting of an academic dean and various professors on the educational value of his proposal. It became obvious to Uslan as soon as he stepped into the room, however, that it would be an uphill battle – the dean looked and him and snarled, “So you’re the fellow who wants to teach a course on funny books at my university?”

Uslan began to outline his proposal but cut off by the dean after only a few minutes. “Oh come on!” he exclaimed. “Comic books as mythology? Superheroes as folklore? Really, Mr. Uslan, give me a break. What comic books are… are cheap, maybe lurid entertainment for kids. Nothing more, nothing less. I read comic books when I was a kid. I read every issue of Superman I could get my hands on. But it’s nothing but kid’s stuff, and I reject your premise.”

Michael Uslan wasn’t willing to concede defeat. He asked the dean two questions, the first being to summarize the story of Moses. The dean explained how an Egyptian Pharaoh had ordered that the first born of any Hebrew be put to death. To protect their child, Moses’ parents placed him in a wicker basket and sent it adrift on the Nile River. An Egyptian couple then found the basket and raised the child as their own. Moses eventually learned about his actual heritage and went on to become a hero to the Hebrews.

Uslan then asked if the dean could recite the origins of Superman. “The planet Krypton was about to explode,” the dean began. “A scientist and his wife placed their infant son into a little rocket ship and sent him to Earth where he was found by the Kents, who raised him as their own son. When he grew up and learned of his true…” At that point the dean simply stopped and stared at Michael Uslan for a few moments before declaring, “Mr. Uslan, your course is accredited.”

[beamish14]

Not to take the thread too off-course, but it’s amazing how Uslan gets an executive producer on EVERY WB film with Batman in it because of a low six figure deal he made around 1983. He really has no creative input at all, though.

Regarding Gunn, I love the hell out of much of The Suicide Squad, especially the initial beach landing and the fact that Weasel is a deliberate homage to Berkeley Breathed’s Bill the Cat from Bloom County/Outland

[Mr Sausage]

The Suicide Squad and subsequent tv spinoff, Peacemaker, are very entertaining, among the best of the modern superhero blockbusters. They play to Gunn's strengths far more than Superman.

Marvel ought to get him back. His talent for group dynamics and broken people would make him perfect for Thunderbolts. Hell, he'd bring a lot more to the Avengers themselves than the Russos at this point.

[beamish14]

He really is the only person to make the leap from Troma-produced films to major studios, no? (I’m not counting Trey Parker/Matt Stone, as Cannibal! The Musical was independently produced and then distributed by them)

[colinr0380]

It would appear that one of the big factors in how sudden this was has been that disastrous podcast of a few days ago trying to work out what was canon in DC (i.e. the stuff he worked on) and what is not, and only making things even more tangled up. When it probably would have been better all around to have started with a completely clean slate.

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

I don't buy that a bad podcast performance attempting to explain the DCU lore (something I doubt any of the higher-ups at Skydance really cares about) was the or even a major factor here. This Hollywood Reporter piece says the change "had been in the works since early fall" and was precipitated by broader issues, the big one supposedly being that Gunn and Safran's deal with WBD had them reporting directly to Ellison (just as they'd previously reported to Zaslav) and neither Ellison nor the heads of Skydance's film division were pleased about that. It also says the feeling around the company is that Superman should've made more money than it did and that Latcham is "more in line with Ellison's broader tastes," which I suppose is one way to put it.

[The Curious Sofa]

The Suicide Squad and subsequent tv spinoff, Peacemaker, are very entertaining, among the best of the modern superhero blockbusters. They play to Gunn's strengths far more than Superman.

Of the films and series I’ve seen, The Suicide Squad and Peacemaker are the only things to come out of the DCEU/DCU that I really enjoyed (Peacemaker also has the greatest title sequence of any TV show ever!).

Marvel ought to get him back. His talent for group dynamics and broken people would make him perfect for Thunderbolts. Hell, he'd bring a lot more to the Avengers themselves than the Russos at this point.

While Marvel suits his style better, I hope that once Man of Tomorrow is done, this will be an opportunity for Gunn to get away from superheroes and do some original projects. A return to lower-budget horror wouldn’t be the worst idea, considering the genre is on fire right now.

[Kracker]

i blame Supergirl, that was a colossal flop he absolutely could not afford under all he scrutiny he was facing and he totally betrayed his vow that he would not greenlight anything unless they had a solid script. Instead he tapped a female screenwriter who had never written anything before. if Supergirl had been a big hit, that would have least bought him some time to get the DCU off the ground. While Lanterns and Clayface were fantastic, it wasn't what he needed to jumpstart things.

From what i hear from James Gunn's reaction, it was a bad idea to have him both run DC and make their movies, you need a dedicated Feige to run that whole carnival and direct everything toward one cohesive vision. Hopefully, they can all work together to pivot this towards building the cinematic DC into a positive direction.

[JamesF]

It’s been seven and a half years since Endgame and the MCU has been stumbling around drunk ever since, is anyone still calling Feige a genius with a vision?

[Kracker]

I’m not saying Feige is any kind of genius or anything. I’m saying you need that dedicated role in charge instead of having Gunn in charge of all projects while having write, direct all the high-budget Superman movies, and the Peacemaker show, and the Waller TV show and then also Creature Commandos, all while having to put up with toxic fans making AI photos where he’s getting fisted by Henry Cavill and spreading “insider” misinformation about what’s going on, simply because their favorite bad movie director, who they were previously badmouthing non-stop while HE was the one in charge, isn’t the one shoving DC into a dumpster fire. It’s just all too much for one person and this goes to show no matter who you get, it doesn’t work.