Film Movement

[malachi_lui]

Amazing news about The Hole, even if I’m in the minority who thinks it’s one of Tsai’s lesser films (I think The Wayward Cloud does much of the same stuff but far better). I didn’t even realise that it’d never had a proper New York theatrical run, and that old print that was kicking around last year (pretty sure it’s from Fox Lorber) is pretty beat.

Big World will surely release The Hole on disc through their Vinegar Syndrome partnership, as they did with Rebels of the Neon God.

[Kauno]

A complicating factor with Tsai's films is that Tsai hates home video and says if it were up to him his movies wouldn't be available for non-theatrical viewing.

I respect his opinion, but for some people home viewing is the only practical option. Due to health reasons, sitting through a film that lasts two hours without a piss break simply isn't possible. Being able to pause a movie at home makes it accessible in a way that a theatrical screening isn't. I also don't miss the 10–15 minutes of commercials before the film starts. Or are movies reserved only for youngsters and for those who don't suffer from prostate problems?

[MichaelB]

I suspect some filmmakers would gladly remove the option to pause a film! David Lynch infamously insisted on no chapter stops when he had contractual control over the presentation of home video releases.

Peter Kubelka is one of the most extreme cases, in that he has never sanctioned the transfer of any of his films to another medium, has made it clear that he never will, and that there's apparently a clause in his will that will prevent anyone from legally doing it after his death. He says that he's fully aware that this means that he'll lose out on potential revenue, but as far as he was concerned his work was conceived as films to be projected in a darkened room by a flickering projector beam, and that's that.

[denti alligator]

I understand Kubelka's position. His film's really are about the materiality of celluloid. The flicker effect, which is slightly noticeable in projections at less than 24fps, could presumably be approximated by encoding a file with black frames. The exact ration would have to be determined. Has anyone ever done this?

[tenia]

I don't think so, though maybe on some experimental movies whose video releases don't get as much visibility ?
I know about restorations made from original negatives but still replicating markers for roll changes (in Eastern Europe, notably, though I haven't seen this for some time), but flicker ?

[beamish14]

Amazing news about The Hole, even if I’m in the minority who thinks it’s one of Tsai’s lesser films (I think The Wayward Cloud does much of the same stuff but far better). I didn’t even realise that it’d never had a proper New York theatrical run, and that old print that was kicking around last year (pretty sure it’s from Fox Lorber) is pretty beat.

Big World will surely release The Hole on disc through their Vinegar Syndrome partnership, as they did with Rebels of the Neon God.

I really hope this new print screens in Los Angeles. UCLA’s archival print of it sold out very quickly during a retrospective of his work

[ryannichols7]

Also, this was a few months ago but I overlooked it at the time:

Could they do Tsai's What Time Is It There? while they're at it? It's essentially a sequel to The River.

Tsai's films really need some love. So disappointing that The Hole couldn't even get a Blu-ray release when it was restored a couple of years ago.

A complicating factor with Tsai's films is that Tsai hates home video and says if it were up to him his movies wouldn't be available for non-theatrical viewing. Since most of his films are co-produced by others who don't share that opinion, it isn't up to him, but I believe the rights to some have reverted to or been acquired by Tsai's company. I'm guessing The River isn't one of them, since Film Movement doesn't strike me as the type to acquire a film exclusively for theatrical distribution.

In the case of The Hole, the U.S. distributor (Big World) had a new print struck last year that's opening at Lincoln Center on July 10th. No idea if they intend to do a Blu down the line, though they currently distribute an old SD master on DVD and VOD.

genuinely fascinating that he has this opinion considering he participated in the Second Run and Grasshopper releases for Goodbye Dragon Inn and Days

[swo17]

He even created the cover art for Second Run

[Matt]

He’s probably one of those creators who thinks “if it’s going to happen with or without my involvement, I’d rather be involved.” Like when record labels reissue an album or a greatest hits package, the artist might want to be involved so that it at least meets their minimum standards.

[zedz]

I understand Kubelka's position. His film's really are about the materiality of celluloid. The flicker effect, which is slightly noticeable in projections at less than 24fps, could presumably be approximated by encoding a file with black frames. The exact ration would have to be determined. Has anyone ever done this?

As I understand it, Kubelka's objections go beyond just flicker and also have to do with such fundamental aspects of the media as the source of light (film = the human eye perceiving light projected onto a screen / video = light projected at the eye). Also, the flicker he is concerned about isn't just perceptible flicker (e.g. black frames or slower projection speeds), but the darkness between every single frame (every film is 50% darkness), which in his opinion creates a very different physiological impact than the continuity of video.

In Monument Film, he created a movie that could not exist in digital form (it would just be a black screen, with the two visual components cancelling one another out perfectly.) At his age, that's likely to be his last word on the subject!

I don't see it as a big deal, really. There are plenty of artists who utilise the intrinsic and unique characteristics of video to create works that are just as indigenous to their medium. An oil painting doesn't have to work as a watercolour or photographic reproduction.

I'd argue that having a DVD of Arnulf Rainer would be as meaningless as having one of Line Describing a Cone or Light Music.

[denti alligator]

But that IS the flicker effect, isn’t it? Shutter blackout. And it’s not really 50%, but closer to 40% as I understand it. Still, why not calculate it exactly and encode a disc for some film accordingly? With 60+hz refresh rates, it would totally be possible. With Kubelka‘s work, that would check one box. Using a home projector instead of a TV would check the second box.

P.S. It would be fun to create one's own digital version of Arnulf Rainer by calculating the number of black and white frames and shutter blackout as precisely as possible!

[MichaelB]

Talking of which, are there any recordings of Karlheinz Stockhausen's Gruppen that make full spatial sense? Obviously plain stereo isn't going to cut it given that the physical positioning of the three distinct groups of instrumentalists is an integral part of the work.

[zedz]

But that IS the flicker effect, isn’t it? Shutter blackout. And it’s not really 50%, but closer to 40% as I understand it. Still, why not calculate it exactly and encode a disc for some film accordingly? With 60+hz refresh rates, it would totally be possible. With Kubelka‘s work, that would check one box. Using a home projector instead of a TV would check the second box.

P.S. It would be fun to create one's own digital version of Arnulf Rainer by calculating the number of black and white frames and shutter blackout as precisely as possible!

I added an extra bit to my original post that kind of addresses this. What would be the point? I think trying to recreate the Mono Lisa out of Lego would be more artistically rewarding.

[denti alligator]

I think it raises all kinds of interesting questions about the ontology of film. Assuming you’re using a projector and not a TV, the experience of a digital Arnulf Rainer would be far closer to the experience of a celluloid film print projection than a Lego Mona Lisa to the original. Phenomenologically, the experience of the visuals should be almost identical. (I forget if the audio is the sound of the exposed frames or an added feature.) A better analogy might be the digital recording of a piece of music versus its live performance. Is there a difference? Absolutely. In each case, though, you will have heard the music.

[ryannichols7]

He even created the cover art for Second Run

that's right. would be game for him to do more.

He’s probably one of those creators who thinks “if it’s going to happen with or without my involvement, I’d rather be involved.” Like when record labels reissue an album or a greatest hits package, the artist might want to be involved so that it at least meets their minimum standards.

and I can respect this take at least, there's at least a few bands I like who were pretty anti greatest hits but got involved once they got word the label was producing one. as long as he's not actively withholding releases of his films (which doesn't seem to be the case so far), I can live with it