Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

[Finch]

I love Kubrick but a CC set really strikes me as a waste of their resources. Just release Lolita on its own and upgrade the two MGM titles to 4K. Even a complete Kubrick film school set like their Bergman one doesn't feel super compelling. Shining superfans would have already imported whichever cut wasn't released in their market to compliment their domestic release. And let's be honest, this thing isn't going to be competitively priced either. I know I don't have to buy it but this feels a bit like the CC40 set. I'd rather get more rescues like The Blade than a fancy repackaging of widely available films with a few scholarly extras thrown in. What are the odds that even at half price this is going to feel overpriced the same way the Wes Anderson set is? Again, no one is forcing me to buy it and they admittedly have yet to announce the specs, but I wish I shared most people's excitement for this announcement. For context, I already have MoC's Path of Glory 4K, Sony's Dr Strangelove 4K, Criterion's Barry Lyndon 4K, and the WB4ks of Shining (US cut), 2001 and Full Metal Jacket. The only missing title I want is The Killing from CC (I might get the Kino 4K if nothing happens on that front) since I don't like Eyes Wide Shut and Lolita enough to want to own them.

[captveg]

Speaking of Scorsese, I wonder if The Color of Money is possibly upcoming since it's the 40th anniversary this year, a 4k DCP is listed on Park Circus, and I imagine Scorsese could get it licensed out from Disney (unless what's going on with their home video department would somehow prevent this from happening).

If they did I would hope they'd grab The Hustler as well.

[captveg]

I love Kubrick but a CC set really strikes me as a waste of their resources. Just release Lolita on its own and upgrade the two MGM titles to 4K. Even a complete Kubrick film school set like their Bergman one doesn't feel super compelling. Shining superfans would have already imported whichever cut wasn't released in their market to compliment their domestic release. And let's be honest, this thing isn't going to be competitively priced either. I know I don't have to buy it but this feels a bit like the CC40 set. I'd rather get more rescues like The Blade than a fancy repackaging of widely available films with a few scholarly extras thrown in. What are the odds that even at half price this is going to feel overpriced the same way the Wes Anderson set is? Again, no one is forcing me to buy it and they admittedly have yet to announce the specs, but I wish I shared most people's excitement for this announcement. For context, I already have MoC's Path of Glory 4K, Sony's Dr Strangelove 4K, Criterion's Barry Lyndon 4K, and the WB4ks of Shining (US cut), 2001 and Full Metal Jacket. The only missing title I want is The Killing from CC (I might get the Kino 4K if nothing happens on that front) since I don't like Eyes Wide Shut and Lolita enough to want to own them.

I'll say the one unique novelty angle here for a US video box set is that it could include every Kubrick film from Killer's Kiss to Eyes Wide Shut, assuming they get MGM, Sony, Universal and Warner to all play along. Just unfortunate that only Lolita would be a debut on 4K UHD.

[justeleblanc]

If this is true, hopefully it means Criterion is able to get their hands on the original mono soundtrack for The Shining. There's that video essay floating around that lists all the ways the 5.1 remix inadvertently re-edits much of the music, at times completely changing the tempo of the scene.

[JSC]

I'll second what Finch said. Kubrick has been well represented on disc over the years with every format
change. A Criterion set feels a bit redundant at this point. As it looks like a release of The Devils
is on the horizon a real surprise would be to do some kind of Ken Russell in the Seventies box.

[denti alligator]

As someone who doesn't have that many Kubricks (the MoC Paths of Glory, which I'd probably hold on to, the CC Barry Lyndon and Killing, plus a couple of the new, cheap WB UHDs), I welcome the set, though if Criterion is mostly reusing existing 4K releases and not adding much, I can see why people would be less than excited. Adding extra cuts, fixing audio (the 2001 UHD could be improved, too), and adding some great extras could go a long way to making this very desirable.

[MichaelB]

As it looks like a release of The Devils is on the horizon a real surprise would be to do some kind of Ken Russell in the Seventies box.

Given the number of rightsholders involved, that definitely would be a surprise!

[yoloswegmaster]

It was implied that international versions count as different cuts so I would think Eyes Wide Shut as well.

The international version is the version that Criterion released, so it looks like the U.S. cut won't be added to this hypothetical set (though I doubt anyone truly will miss its omission).

As someone who doesn't have that many Kubricks (the MoC Paths of Glory, which I'd probably hold on to, the CC Barry Lyndon and Killing, plus a couple of the new, cheap WB UHDs), I welcome the set, though if Criterion is mostly reusing existing 4K releases and not adding much, I can see why people would be less than excited. Adding extra cuts, fixing audio (the 2001 UHD could be improved, too), and adding some great extras could go a long way to making this very desirable.

I'm in the same boat since the only 4K Kubrick's that I own are 2001 and MoC's Path of Glory and have been lazy to pick up the rest, so I would be fine with a Criterion set. Plus a set like this is bound to make a heap tons of money, so it would be foolish to turn something like this down when given the chance.

[Matt]

I love Kubrick but a CC set really strikes me as a waste of their resources.
...
I know I don't have to buy it but this feels a bit like the CC40 set.

This is exactly it, though. It's not for people who've bought every disc as they came out. It's for expensive gift-giving and people who like nice cool shiny boxes (me).

I'm sure that, as they did with the two previously unreleased Wes Anderson titles in his box set, they will release Lolita on its own the same month as the box.

[Finch]

Is it too much to hope they'll do separate UHDs for all the Andersons they'd already released on Blu-ray? If nothing happens on that front by October when Criterion's own 50% sale takes place, I might just bite the bullet and at least accrue a lot of credits for that purchase.

[The Elegant Dandy Fop]

I love Kubrick but a CC set really strikes me as a waste of their resources.
...
I know I don't have to buy it but this feels a bit like the CC40 set.

This is exactly it, though. It's not for people who've bought every disc as they came out. It's for expensive gift-giving and people who like nice cool shiny boxes (me).

I'm sure that, as they did with the two previously unreleased Wes Anderson titles in his box set, they will release Lolita on its own the same month as the box.

It's also hopefully for people who love original mono mixes like me.

[FlickeringWindow]

The main reasons for a complete 4K box would be...

- Bring the three United Artists films back in print in 4K
- Better encode for Fear and Desire
- Spartacus with the laserdisc/DVD extras, also original 6-track mix instead of just the Atmos/DTS:X remixes
- Lolita new to 4K and finally with supplements
- A Clockwork Orange, The Shining, and Full Metal Jacket lossless mono finally
- Original Warner logo and 1.85:1 framing on the latter two
- International and US cuts of The Shining
- HD remaster of Making The Shining

Downside is that I can't see them improving on Dr Strangelove, 2001, Barry Lyndon, or Eyes Wide Shut. I guess somehow include the premiere cut scenes for 2001, but I doubt that's likely (same with The Shining's original ending). Would there be much demand for the R-rated cuts of A Clockwork Orange and Eyes Wide Shut? The shorter cut of Spartacus?

Honestly, just do a 4K/Blu box set of Killer's Kiss, The Killing, Paths of Glory, and Lolita - then a deluxe multi-disc The Shining.

[Mr.DarjeelingLimited]

The main reasons for a complete 4K box would be...

- Bring the three United Artists films back in print in 4K
- Better encode for Fear and Desire
- Spartacus with the laserdisc/DVD extras, also original 6-track mix instead of just the Atmos/DTS:X remixes
- Lolita new to 4K and finally with supplements
- A Clockwork Orange, The Shining, and Full Metal Jacket lossless mono finally
- Original Warner logo and 1.85:1 framing on the latter two
- International and US cuts of The Shining
- HD remaster of Making The Shining

Downside is that I can't see them improving on Dr Strangelove, 2001, Barry Lyndon, or Eyes Wide Shut. I guess somehow include the premiere cut scenes for 2001, but I doubt that's likely (same with The Shining's original ending). Would there be much demand for the R-rated cuts of A Clockwork Orange and Eyes Wide Shut? The shorter cut of Spartacus?

Honestly, just do a 4K/Blu box set of Killer's Kiss, The Killing, Paths of Glory, and Lolita - then a deluxe multi-disc The Shining.

A few of the things mentioned were confirmed for me by the Elstree historian.

[beamish14]

Matthew Modine’s Full Metal Jacket documentary could be part of it, too

I just truly hope a FMJ release really does a deep dive into author Gustav Hasford, who was such a bizarre person

[DRW.mov]

Matthew Modine’s Full Metal Jacket documentary could be part of it, too

I just truly hope a FMJ release really does a deep dive into author Gustav Hasford, who was such a bizarre person

It is crazy how light on extras the current FMJ releases are

[captveg]

I wonder if they would attempt an HD reconstruction of A Life In Pictures. Is that even possible? I imagine the interviews are native SD, but they could upscale those perhaps?

[Mr.DarjeelingLimited]

Based off yesterday's Cannes Classics announcements, I think it's safe to say that Maria Plyta's Eve will be released under a future World Cinema Project release. With the 4K restoration of Sanshiro Sugata being announced, I can see them waiting for the rest of the Kurosawa titles to be restored by Toho and releasing a big set with all the titles. I can also see them grabbing the rights to De Sica's Two Women (as well as the new De Sica documentary), which oddly has never been released on HD in North America.

More important news, it looks like our very own dwk is now a trusted insider!

Person who made that comment was me! In DWK we trust. Also in bigger news from Reddit. I made a post about the rumors regarding the Kubrick box and was dm’ed by someone who works for Elstree and we talked for a bit about it. Confirming some things about the set and the cuts of the films for me. I told them I wouldn’t blab about a lot of it so I think that’s the most I can say without breaking their trust.

I got their permission to say a little more. Yes it is the complete films, everything. There are new commentaries produced. Different cuts all in 4K. New docs as well.

[Finch]

Hm. If on top of all that's being teased, they add the original audio for some of the WB titles, I might have to withdraw my criticisms. I'd only ask Criterion to make it more shelf space friendly than the Anderson set, i.e. not ginormous (but who am I kidding). And no slots for the discs!

[MannFan]

Based off yesterday's Cannes Classics announcements, I think it's safe to say that Maria Plyta's Eve will be released under a future World Cinema Project release. With the 4K restoration of Sanshiro Sugata being announced, I can see them waiting for the rest of the Kurosawa titles to be restored by Toho and releasing a big set with all the titles. I can also see them grabbing the rights to De Sica's Two Women (as well as the new De Sica documentary), which oddly has never been released on HD in North America.

More important news, it looks like our very own dwk is now a trusted insider!

Person who made that comment was me! In DWK we trust. Also in bigger news from Reddit. I made a post about the rumors regarding the Kubrick box and was dm’ed by someone who works for Elstree and we talked for a bit about it. Confirming some things about the set and the cuts of the films for me. I told them I wouldn’t blab about a lot of it so I think that’s the most I can say without breaking their trust.

I got their permission to say a little more. Yes it is the complete films, everything. There are new commentaries produced. Different cuts all in 4K. New docs as well.

How many might be new transfers/scans or new masterings of prior scans? I’d be curious how it turns out, including for 2001 A Space Odyssey since there was a Criterion LD of it

[yoloswegmaster]

So they're even including Fear and Desire and the short films he did?

[Roger Ryan]

I noticed that TCM is running an upcoming programming promo including what's being called a "Special Kubrick Theme" for September, so maybe that will tie into an announcement... or release?

[yoloswegmaster]

I noticed that TCM is running an upcoming programming promo including what's being called a "Special Kubrick Theme" for September, so maybe that will tie into an announcement... or release?

Has TCM ever run a program that was directly related to a Criterion release?

[ryannichols7]

a certain twitter account that I don't trust as a source has posted about the three Hitchcock/Selznick titles coming to 4K, and of course this probably means Criterion. I wonder where he stole that rumor from? seems legit enough though, we know Spellbound has been restored for some time, and I'm sure porting Rebecca and Notorious isn't too much work

[thebatman97080]

a certain twitter account that I don't trust as a source has posted about the three Hitchcock/Selznick titles coming to 4K, and of course this probably means Criterion. I wonder where he stole that rumor from? seems legit enough though, we know Spellbound has been restored for some time, and I'm sure porting Rebecca and Notorious isn't too much work

I presume he got his "scoop" from these comments.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... unt=237004

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... unt=237002

[Lowry_Sam]

What are the chances we get the Wrong Men & Notorious Women box upgraded from dvd to UHD?