UHD New Releases, Reissues and Upgrades

[rrenault]

For starters, they may not even be suitable for the high-bitrate UHD treatment—because, as La Règle du Jeu demonstrates, if the only surviving 35mm sources are generations away from the original camera negative, a normal person who doesn't pore over 400% Caps-a-holic magnifications simply isn't going to notice any difference between it and a Blu-ray from the same source, hence the BFI's decision not to go down the UHD route. And I have to say I'm not wildly enthused by the prospect of importing Criterion's El—I love the film, but the UHD release looks pretty much indistinguishable from a BD based on screencaps.

I guess one does wonder if there'd be a noticeable difference between the CC UHD and BFI blu-ray in this instance if you projected them in a cinema and not on a home setup, which is what they're of course intended for, or are the elements just far enough removed from the OCN that there's simply a glass ceiling to how good it can look even on the largest screen?

[MichaelB]

There may be a visible difference in a cinema-sized projection situation—but, realistically, what percentage of the BFI's customer base will that apply to?

That's the kind of calculation that a label is constantly having to make.

See also rebuilding a film from scratch (effectively redoing much of its post-production) just to effect a minuscule improvement in picture quality. Could Prospero's Books and The Pillow Book be made to look better? If the original 35mm elements survive (although that's a big "if"), possibly, but the workload involved would be so gargantuan that the chances of the end result being able to turn any kind of profit must be close to zero. And of course you'd get nit-pickers pointing out differences, as there inevitably would be differences—I myself took advantage of working on The Pillow Book in order to correct a couple of blatant typos in the original calligraphic subtitles (after checking with editor/compositor Chris Wyatt that they really were typos and not wordplay that had whooshed over my head; you never know with Peter Greenaway!)

(Prospero's Books is effectively a 1035i [sic] analogue video work, and if anyone ever announces a 4K UHD release I'll be decidedly intrigued—but also suspicious.)

[Drucker]

a normal person who doesn't pore over 400% Caps-a-holic magnifications

How dare you.

[nicolas]

The Last Seduction (Imprint) - has a FiM encode and is said to be a revelatory upgrade from the poor BDs.

[MichaelB]

…at about ten times the price.

I genuinely thought that it was a typo, but it seems not.

[therewillbeblus]

Looks like they're re-releasing Jurassic Park with a DV upgrade. I know this was one of the more 'disappointing' discs for many, so here's hoping they remedy the issues

[nicolas]

They were already re-released in Steelbooks last summer with the new discs. Some issues were fixed and others introduced but they’re better than the 2018 ones.

[nicolas]

@fus1on:

Bugonia (US disc) vs. Bugonia (European disc) - caps. A very rare thing happened here with a studio release getting different encodes in the US and Europe. The European 4K is on a BD-100 (US disc is a BD-66) and has ~15 MB/s more bitrate. Still not a perfect encode but it’s more refined. Caveat: The EU disc replaced the original burnt-in subtitles with player generated ones. The rest (Atmos, runtime and HDR10) is identical.

[nicolas]

PlayTime (Criterion) - caps. It has to be seen if the chroma artifacts are bothersome in motion but likely not that significantly as the more common streaks or huge blocks. The resolution upgrade is excellent with lots of highlight detail recovered (caps 8 and 9). I imagine some might be surprised that the grain is rather prominent and appears thick for a 65mm-shot film but the master is now almost twelve years old and scanning technology improved in the meantime. I personally doubt that Studiocanal put the film out in 4K any time soon and it’s nowhere near guaranteed that the encode holds up as well as Criterion’s if anything materializes. Can’t wait for the Criterion.

[FlickeringWindow]

PlayTime (Criterion) - caps. It has to be seen if the chroma artifacts are bothersome in motion but likely not that significantly as the more common streaks or huge blocks. The resolution upgrade is excellent with lots of highlight detail recovered (caps 8 and 9). I imagine some might be surprised that the grain is rather prominent and appears thick for a 65mm-shot film but the master is now almost twelve years old and scanning technology improved in the meantime. I personally doubt that Studiocanal put the film out in 4K any time soon and it’s nowhere near guaranteed that the encode holds up as well as Criterion’s if anything materializes. Can’t wait for the Criterion.

Actually, StudioCanal just announced a few days ago they completed new 4K restorations of the rest of his features. They're getting a theatrical reissue in France via Carlotta, followed by 4K and Blu-ray sets.

[TVC 15]

I heard they did a bad job with the audio I saw spectograms and it looks badly filtered and rolled off over 15 khz. It is a harsh cut off compared to editions Studiocanal put out so what do Criterion think they are doing ruining audio with awful filtering? Worse yet now Arrow are doing it no excuse for this.

[andyli]

PlayTime (Criterion) - caps. It has to be seen if the chroma artifacts are bothersome in motion but likely not that significantly as the more common streaks or huge blocks. The resolution upgrade is excellent with lots of highlight detail recovered (caps 8 and 9). I imagine some might be surprised that the grain is rather prominent and appears thick for a 65mm-shot film but the master is now almost twelve years old and scanning technology improved in the meantime. I personally doubt that Studiocanal put the film out in 4K any time soon and it’s nowhere near guaranteed that the encode holds up as well as Criterion’s if anything materializes. Can’t wait for the Criterion.

Actually, StudioCanal just announced a few days ago they completed new 4K restorations of the rest of his features. They're getting a theatrical reissue in France via Carlotta, followed by 4K and Blu-ray sets.

FWIW I heard Studio Canal's eventual UHD release of Playtime would feature an HDR pass of the same transfer.

[TVC 15]

PlayTime (Criterion) - caps. It has to be seen if the chroma artifacts are bothersome in motion but likely not that significantly as the more common streaks or huge blocks. The resolution upgrade is excellent with lots of highlight detail recovered (caps 8 and 9). I imagine some might be surprised that the grain is rather prominent and appears thick for a 65mm-shot film but the master is now almost twelve years old and scanning technology improved in the meantime. I personally doubt that Studiocanal put the film out in 4K any time soon and it’s nowhere near guaranteed that the encode holds up as well as Criterion’s if anything materializes. Can’t wait for the Criterion.

Actually, StudioCanal just announced a few days ago they completed new 4K restorations of the rest of his features. They're getting a theatrical reissue in France via Carlotta, followed by 4K and Blu-ray sets.

FWIW I heard Studio Canal's eventual UHD release of Playtime would feature an HDR pass of the same transfer.

Criterion is an easy pass for me then since Studiocanal will probably have unfiltered audio too. What are they thinking not using HDR when the rest are and why do they ruin the audio so much with their weird filtering and rolling off?

[dwk]

...What are they thinking not using HDR when the rest ...

The restoration was done in SDR and Criterion's policy with SDR masters is to present them in SDR.

[nicolas]

Good to hear that SC are planning an upgrade themselves and a 4K box with his other films, which I take as a positive sign as they’ve prioritized films from other countries lately. I personally prefer to have SDR masters presented on disc in SDR, so the Criterion will do me fine for now.

[tenia]

PlayTime (Criterion) - caps. It has to be seen if the chroma artifacts are bothersome in motion but likely not that significantly as the more common streaks or huge blocks. The resolution upgrade is excellent with lots of highlight detail recovered (caps 8 and 9). I imagine some might be surprised that the grain is rather prominent and appears thick for a 65mm-shot film but the master is now almost twelve years old and scanning technology improved in the meantime. I personally doubt that Studiocanal put the film out in 4K any time soon and it’s nowhere near guaranteed that the encode holds up as well as Criterion’s if anything materializes. Can’t wait for the Criterion.

Surprised by the zoom in the picture. This clearly is the same master, so I wonder what justified zoomin in the selected framing 12 years later.

[nicolas]

Found a post about the framing discrepancy: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... stcount=42

[The Curious Sofa]

So early word of mouth suggests Carlotta tops Vinegar Syndrome for its encode of The Tenant, although I’m guessing the latter wins on extras.

The Carlotta looks gorgeous. Unfortunately the English language track (which is my preferred version) comes with forced French subtitles which I can't get rid off and there are no English subs for the French audio. I had not realised French releases still did that in a time of region free UHD discs (I'm new to 4K/UHD).

[nicolas]

Forcing subtitles is more common than you think and especially in France. I’ve read more than once that the region free spec of the 4K format irks some rights holders, so forcing subtitles is one way of making sure that the release retains a localized character. Having English subtitles at all is even more rare for non-US/UK/Australian 4K boutique releases irrespective of country.

Finch’s list covers English-friendly 4K releases worldwide if you want to make sure what you’re buying.

[The Curious Sofa]

Thanks, I will check that list from now on.
Living in Germany, I've bought most of my 4K Blu-rays from Amazon.fr, because they are really cheap compared to anywhere else. Though I promised myself not to do this, I went on an upgrade shopping binge and catalogue titles that you pay 30€ for on Amazon.de are between 12€ and 14€ there. But I will be more careful with French movies now.

[Maltic]

@fus1on:

Bugonia (US disc) vs. Bugonia (European disc) - caps. A very rare thing happened here with a studio release getting different encodes in the US and Europe. The European 4K is on a BD-100 (US disc is a BD-66) and has ~15 MB/s more bitrate. Still not a perfect encode but it’s more refined. Caveat: The EU disc replaced the original burnt-in subtitles with player generated ones. The rest (Atmos, runtime and HDR10) is identical.

The first five or so Google hits give the US disc (I think) top marks for PQ. Bluray.com (not Svet), Geek Vibes Nation, Why so blu?, Blurayauthority. Are people just idiots (wouldn't surprise me per se)?

[nicolas]

This is sadly business as usual and nothing surprising in the slightest. You’d be surprised how many “pro” reviewers don’t really know what they’re talking about and generalize more than they analyze. “The picture is bright, grain is fine, the print is stable. I liked what I saw, it looks better than the stream”… something along those lines.

If they go the extra mile, it’s checking bitrates and comparing them against other releases and giving higher marks to the higher bitrate but even that is generally useless as higher or “stratospheric bitrates” (quote DVDBeaver) don’t guarantee spotless encodes as we can see with Kino’s discs. An exception is Chris on this site as he actively looks for issues.

If you really want to know how good / bad a disc is, there’s no way around checking the individual release threads on BR.com and this thread here to see if there are user reviews, actual 4K caps and objective breakdowns available. I doubt that there’ll be even one website review or Twitter account that mentions the encoding differences and better PQ. You’ll only find this here and on the other forum.

[TVC 15]

...What are they thinking not using HDR when the rest ...

The restoration was done in SDR and Criterion's policy with SDR masters is to present them in SDR.

I think this is poor practice when everybody else has used HDR on SDR masters and it has been alright. No excuse for filtering all the life out of the audio or the cropping though so this is a huge letdown. Studiocanal need to come to the rescue.

[Zot!]

Good to hear that SC are planning an upgrade themselves and a 4K box with his other films

Keep in mind also that the OOP BFI Versions STILL feature vastly better and unique versions of many of the alternate versions of the Tati films. I doubt SC will make this a priority, but it would be a shame if these were forgotten in the race to 4K. (I stole these specifics from our box set thread)

The Village Fair (1964, English variant) - BFI only, HD
Jour de fete (1994/5) - Criterion SD, BFI HD

Les Vacances de M. Hulot (1953) - Criterion SD, BFI HD

My Uncle (1984) - Criterion SD, BFI HD

[dwk]

I think this is poor practice when everybody else has used HDR on SDR masters and it has been alright. No excuse for filtering all the life out of the audio or the cropping though so this is a huge letdown. Studiocanal need to come to the rescue.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on slapping an HDR grade on an SDR master. Color timing issues (Ritrovata, etc) aside, I think UHDs should be presented as close to the actual restoration as possible.