Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019-2025)

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knives
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019-2025)

#151 Post by knives »

Noiretirc wrote: Sun Dec 14, 2025 2:39 am
knives wrote: Sun Dec 14, 2025 1:53 am I’m probably the last person feeling this way, but I absolutely loved the newest movie.
Knives out!
Just on the baseline these films remain really fun and well told, but I also love the whole character and journey of Father Jud particularly how he doesn’t want to be the main character and how Blanc functions as this sarcastic narrator who doesn’t buy into the whole story, but respects the broad ideas.

I can see people getting annoyed with Cy as a belabored political point, but that element is so minor it doesn’t seem worth discounting everything else for (and I personally enjoyed how Johnson twisted it).
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Lowry_Sam
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019/2022/?)

#152 Post by Lowry_Sam »

Noiretirc wrote: Sun Dec 14, 2025 2:51 am No theaters near me are showing Wake Up Dead Man.
That's odd. This has been playing in all the theaters near me for several weeks now. Theater distribution seems completely random now. You can't depend on releases coming & when they do, often all chains (Cinelux, Landmark, Century & Alamo Drafthouse) can all be playing the same thing (ie. this & Wicked) in their largest auditorium 2/3 times a day (with even a start time 5 minutes apart from another theater 3 blocks away) for several weeks with only a handful of people at each screening, but then another release will only have one screening in the smallest screening room at 11 am for a week with close to sold out shows & disappear at the week's end (Palestine 36 & Rental Family) without making it into a larger screen or at a time when people who work during the day can attend.
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019-2025)

#153 Post by therewillbeblus »

knives wrote: Sun Dec 14, 2025 3:04 am I can see people getting annoyed with Cy as a belabored political point, but that element is so minor it doesn’t seem worth discounting everything else for (and I personally enjoyed how Johnson twisted it).
Johnson has placed at least one conservative character in each entry, but Cy is the first to be utilized well beyond those ideas - the running gag of him filming everything is hilarious and his selfish carelessness is capitalized on well by Blanc in a pivotal scene. And on the other end, Wicks's conservatism is given an interesting dissection that’s much more careful and deep
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knives
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019-2025)

#154 Post by knives »

Yeah, I think this film twinned with its complex appreciation for faith as a moral boundary actually delves into the nature of political status a bit more deeply. Even gags like the writer desperately wanting to not be in favor with weird survivalists depends on a nuance being present.

Speaking of gags the flat way Cy says he filmed it all was such a great laugh line. We had to pause the film and rewind it to catch the next little bit.
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019-2025)

#155 Post by therewillbeblus »

Yeah that’s the moment I was referring to, hysterical

I saw this again in theatres a few weeks back and liked it even more than the first watch. O'Connor's lines just hit so well, and I also felt like the side characters were more fleshed out this time around. It's also nice to see O'Connor take on a role as a 'collectivist' after being, perhaps-incidentally, cast as individualists throughout much of his career so far (which may have reached its peak with The Mastermind this year)
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019-2025)

#156 Post by cdnchris »

There were some great throwaway lines, but for whatever reason, I lost it with Craig's delivery of
Spoiler
"Scooby-Dooby Doo."
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Matt
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019-2025)

#157 Post by Matt »

Like a broken record, here I come to say once again that a film is too long. I don't think it's a matter of needing a trim here and there, I think the script and direction themselves are too baggy and lack tension and suspense. There was a point about 2/3 of the way through where I just checked out. There is one character who is so thinly sketched to begin with that it's clear they could have been excised without affecting anything. And then the stakes/motives for another couple of characters are extremely flimsy. It's clear these characters are just there to pad out the list of suspects and little else.

The performances are good, the filmmaking is good, so it's not a bad movie in any way. In fact, I think there's a really good film about faith and perseverance here that's sort of derailed by the banality of having to solve a mystery. I just didn't think it was particularly fun to watch.
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Mr Sausage
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019-2025)

#158 Post by Mr Sausage »

I'm not usually into stories of faith like these, pitching an anodyne version of it so thin it's indistinguishable from stock morality, while the aura of spirituality works in a mechanical way to make the plot seem mysterious and the melodrama elevated. But I liked the drama of Josh O'Connor's character, his mixture of anger, guilt, fear, and desire, all of which have both a base and a righteous side. The murder was a good pressure cooker for those feelings. I was disappointed he had a lame Saul-to-Paul moment over the phone (even if the call itself skated triteness with skill), especially because his partnership with Blanc in collecting clues was so animating. Everything after that phone call was less engaging and energetic; I'd hoped the priest would discover his real path as the murder dovetailed, not well before that, becoming merely another suspect as Blanc took over. The movie abandons his character too quickly, and over a trite image of a broken christ--I liked when he seemed to be saying: break it, it's only an empty figurine. Less so when it turns out to be a hackneyed symbol.

So I liked the movie, especially Josh O'Connor's character, but I did think its third act was less fun than the rest, and, as I said, a lot of the faith stuff had me rolling my eyes. Still, I will happily take more of these films.
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019-2025)

#159 Post by aox »

This was incredibly fun and refreshing, especially after the dreck of Glass Onion. It was a good mystery that laid all of its cards on the table from the onset like the first film.
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019-2025)

#160 Post by Brian C »

Mr Sausage wrote: Mon Dec 15, 2025 3:15 pmSo I liked the movie, especially Josh O'Connor's character, but I did think its third act was less fun than the rest, and, as I said, a lot of the faith stuff had me rolling my eyes. Still, I will happily take more of these films.
I had something of the opposite reaction - I liked that it hardly leaned on "faith stuff" at all. Father Jud's faith surely drove him, but his faith was his own and not really a factor in the story, per se. The story was instead about how he viewed the ethics of his profession. That's why the phone call with the construction company secretary was a turning point for him, it didn't remind him of his faith but of his duty.

And I think it's an important distinction to make, because
Spoiler
Blanc was so moved by his ethics that he was willing to publicly make a fool of himself to uphold them, and sacrifice his prized intellectual reputation, perhaps the thing most central to his own identity and therefore a demonstration of his own humility ... all despite not sharing his faith even one iota.
I don't think the movie "abandoned" his character at all, it validated his devotion to his profession, the same way that the first film validated Marta's care and compassion through her profession in the first film.
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Mr Sausage
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019-2025)

#161 Post by Mr Sausage »

Brian C wrote: Mon Dec 15, 2025 5:08 pm
Mr Sausage wrote: Mon Dec 15, 2025 3:15 pmSo I liked the movie, especially Josh O'Connor's character, but I did think its third act was less fun than the rest, and, as I said, a lot of the faith stuff had me rolling my eyes. Still, I will happily take more of these films.
I had something of the opposite reaction - I liked that it hardly leaned on "faith stuff" at all. Father Jud's faith surely drove him, but his faith was his own and not really a factor in the story, per se. The story was instead about how he viewed the ethics of his profession. That's why the phone call with the construction company secretary was a turning point for him, it didn't remind him of his faith but of his duty.

And I think it's an important distinction to make, because
Spoiler
Blanc was so moved by his ethics that he was willing to publicly make a fool of himself to uphold them, and sacrifice his prized intellectual reputation, perhaps the thing most central to his own identity and therefore a demonstration of his own humility ... all despite not sharing his faith even one iota.
I don't think the movie "abandoned" his character at all, it validated his devotion to his profession, the same way that the first film validated Marta's care and compassion through her profession in the first film.
You're really just expanding on my "an anodyne version of [faith] so thin it's indistinguishable from stock morality". Yes, a lot of the faith aspects are more broadly secular virtues like duty, compassion, and fellow feeling, plus generalities about fighting vs openness. These are values that will resonate with secular and religious audiences alike, just as they do with the characters. Of course the movie couches them in blunt religious signifiers, from the road to Damascus, to Eve's apple, to broken christ figurines, to beams of illumination, to resurrections, and the whole bit. The film is outwardly religious in that sense, but still general enough to be inoffensive to non-christians. It's the limpness of the faith aspect that leaves me unmoved. If it had leaned more into O'Connor's catholicism, treated more the specifics of his devotion, I would've preferred that to the non-specific but still religiously clothed moralisms of the actual movie.

As it is, the story is a lightly tendentious attempt to unify skeptical and religious audiences in resisting the angry demagoguery of venal men and the right wing morons who would fund them. While I appreciate the politics, they make for a less interesting story than a man wrestling with the sometimes contradictory demands of his calling, his church, and his conscience. Which is why the movie becomes a lot less interesting once O'Connor comes to his decision ("abandoned" was just overstatement on my part).
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019/2022/?)

#162 Post by Noiretirc »

therewillbeblus wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:10 am I've got good news for everyone: Glass Onion is vastly superior to its predecessor in almost every conceivable way. It's modus operandi will likely 'right' the wrongs of the first film for those who felt underwhelmed, and deliver more of the same for those who loved it. That might sound antithetical, but I assure you it's not. I've come to appreciate Knives Out quite a bit, but its lack of investment in developing its suspects, and general disinterest in its 'mystery' in favor of concocting an inviting narrative thrust, weighed it down a bit and threatened to alienate those not on board with the gratifications from its chosen path in friction with classic mysteries.

Well, this sequel takes a different approach while capturing the same light vibe. Johnson delivers what the first film promised to be: an actual whodunit committed to its setup and execution. There is a long windup before the pitch, and Johnson uses every minute of it to craft an actual mystery and carefully explore dynamics between real subjects who can relate to one another beyond a one-note gag or an isolated piece of evidence of deception, like in the last round. The first film's sociopolitical satire worked fine, but the doses were slight and shallow and relatively safe and muted next to the sprawling zeitgeist and class commentaries regurgitated here. Some are low hanging fruit but others are transmitted in very intelligent and hilarious ways- and very few are eye-rolling, even the jabs that aren’t remotely novel. There are clever gags throughout- with running jokes and punchlines coming from archetypes, stereotypes, antisocial humor, inanimate stimuli, and the occasional genius reflexive taunt: a late-act reveal about linguistic flubs we collectively failed to catch pulls one over on the audience in an exceptionally earned way, that has unsettling implications in positioning us right with the selfish bystanders we’ve judged throughout (but never overstating that the joke’s on us, since the target of evisceration on the screen deserves it far more).

However, after the midpoint narrative-stopping reveal (that owes a lot to Gone Girl and The Skin I Live In; not as profound or shocking as either of those, but sourced in the same strategy of narrative pleasures), kicking off a Russian Doll unraveling of intel, the liberties taken regarding withheld information and narrative shifts aren't playing very fair to the audience who sat through the first half. There’s just too much information elided through cheap editing to make it work, and it’s disingenuous even for an audience that signed up for a ride of deception. Johnson tries to have his cake and eat it too, and has an insatiable appetite, but I didn’t care, because 95% of a movie that works and contains this much... well, everything, has more to offer than most perfect movies and deserves a little slack. Even when the ending appears to peter out with predictability followed by seemingly-arbitrary pearl-clutching in a series of theatrical Grand Gestures, Johnson pulls a rabbit out of his hat to offer a cathartic payoff in lieu of the preceding faux-catharsis that appeared trivial and derivative.

What the sequel loses from the diffusion of a compelling surrogate lead into a more detailed ensemble piece, it makes up for by being a funnier, smarter, more entertaining, and generally interesting multi-mystery. It's also a lot sillier and more reflexively-aware of its ludicrous nature (there's way more fun-poking at Benoit Blanc's childish qualities- not just being Pynchon-illiterate, or whatever- which feels quite appropriate given how cartoonish these films can be). My biggest fear -that de Armas' absence would haunt the film like a ghost- is thankfully compensated, in a sleek manner that successfully reverses the assumed loss I just maybe-sorta lied about. This bait and switch might be the film’s most rewarding twist- and while I won’t reveal the Who, it’s a similarly rich and delightful star-making turn. The whole cast is on-point and clearly having a blast, particularly Kate Hudson, who admittedly plays one of the most easily-derided personalities, ripe for receiving a funnel of jokes at her expense. Oh, and while the influx cameos occasionally feel forced, the wins outweigh the failures.

Now, I've been a bit cocky here. I still expect some people who didn't like Knives Out to shrug or scoff at this one too, but I do think Glass Onion effectively responds to many of their complaints. For me, whose opinion on that pre-covid hit exists somewhere in the middle, this is as much fun as I’ve had at the movies all year.
I just want to say thanks for this post, as I try to track down this disc. From what I have read so far, you might be in a minority here. I can't wait to see for myself. (And I'll seek out your Wake Up Dead Man thoughts next.)
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019-2025)

#163 Post by therewillbeblus »

Unfortunately I think it’s only on Netflix without a physical release.. a real shame
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019-2025)

#164 Post by Lowry_Sam »

It’s still in theaters here. It’s probably lasted for longer than just about any other movie this year.
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019-2025)

#165 Post by Noiretirc »

therewillbeblus wrote: Tue Dec 16, 2025 2:41 am Unfortunately I think it’s only on Netflix without a physical release.. a real shame
That's quite surprising. I cannot think of another significant film that didn't appear on disc within 3 years of release.
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tenia
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019-2025)

#166 Post by tenia »

Don't Look Up, at least.
And Red Notice, which was Netflix biggest hit until KPop Demon Hunters.
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019-2025)

#167 Post by NWRdr4 »

Mr Sausage wrote: Mon Dec 15, 2025 10:51 pm You're really just expanding on my "an anodyne version of [faith] so thin it's indistinguishable from stock morality"… It's the limpness of the faith aspect that leaves me unmoved. If it had leaned more into O'Connor's catholicism, treated more the specifics of his devotion, I would've preferred that to the non-specific but still religiously clothed moralisms of the actual movie.
Agreed. As a practicing Catholic myself, the Catholicism of the movie came across to me as sort of lowest common denominator stuff made for and/or by people who likely have no clue what they’re talking about. I don’t expect every filmmaker to have detailed knowledge of sacramental theology or canon law, but frankly, I was shocked at how egregious some of the depictions of Catholicism were: the film has numerous scenes depicting the Sacrament of Confession, for example, that end on-screen without the priest giving absolution—the main reason for going to confession in the first place! To put it into perspective, it would be a grave error for a priest even to accidentally mess up certain words in the formula of absolution, never mind neglect to say the prayer entirely.
Spoiler
While absolution being granted by Fr. Jud to Martha after her climactic confession makes for a nice moment of narrative/emotional closure, it makes nonsense of the previous confession scenes. Was Fr. Jud being incompetent by not providing absolution? Was he deliberately withholding it from Msgr. Wicks? Either way, a Monsignor of all people certainly would’ve noticed this (again, leaving confession without absolution would be like leaving the pharmacy without your prescription), but it’s never addressed.
The film’s treatment of confession is either totally unwitting or else a cherry-picked version to hit cinematic beats, but either way indicates that we’re not dealing with a particularly interesting exploration of Catholicism itself, whatever the film may have to say about Christianity or faith more broadly.
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019-2025)

#168 Post by Monterey Jack »

Noiretirc wrote: Tue Dec 16, 2025 5:37 am
That's quite surprising. I cannot think of another significant film that didn't appear on disc within 3 years of release.
This is Netflix's raison d'etre...no theatrical (except for a one or two-week run on 300 screens or less for Awards consideration), no physical media. I can count the number of Netflix movies and shows released on disc on the fingers of both hands, and 98% of them have been by Criterion (they never even release the 3rd and 4th season of Stranger Things, they biggest cash cow series ever).
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019-2025)

#169 Post by Noiretirc »

What is this "Netflix" that you speak of?

(Sorry.)

Am I a lonely dinosaur here? Most forumites do Netflix? I said "To hell with it" the very first time I typed in a few older titles when house-sitting.
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Matt
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019-2025)

#170 Post by Matt »

How superior you must feel. Now, back to the movie please.
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019-2025)

#171 Post by Noiretirc »

Inferior actually. And sorry.
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019/2022/?)

#172 Post by starmanof51 »

therewillbeblus wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:10 am rich and delightful star-making turn.
Curious who you were thinking of here
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Re: Knives Outs (Rian Johnson, 2019-2025)

#173 Post by therewillbeblus »

Monae
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