Wes Anderson

[hearthesilence]

I’m guessing I’m the only one here who hates Rushmore. And judging by the fact no one seems to’ve mentioned it, one of the few who thinks The Grand Budapest Hotel is terrific. I’m not the biggest Anderson fan, tho’, so those two plus Moonrise Kingdom and The Royal Tenenbaums are the only ones that do it for me.

I mentioned The Grand Budapest Hotel, albeit not in-depth. It's wonderful - who knew Ralph Fiennes could turn in a lead performance worthy of a Lubitsch comedy? And he gave all the credit to Anderson, telling him "I'm not funny" and saying he was putting his trust into Anderson's script as he was going to deliver it straight. (Fiennes is also great in the Netflix shorts.) It's also a perfect example of Anderson letting his fantasy land to crack open and allowing history - reality - to seep in with sobering results. Given the fascist turn so much of the world has taken, it's grown sadder and richer in the decade since it came out. But Rushmore is possibly my favorite of his films (that or Moonrise Kingdom).

[therewillbeblus]

At the start of this year, The Grand Budapest Hotel moved beyond Moonrise Kingdom and Rushmore as my favorite, when I realized I was watching a rapid-fire pastiche of all my favorite films with the beating heart of WA still intact. I compulsively rewatched it enough times recently where I may've ruined it for myself for a while, but it's up there

[hearthesilence]

I have a soft spot for The Royal Tenenbaums because it's the first Wes Anderson film I ever saw. I actually knew nothing of him, we went because it was a comedy with familiar faces and IIRC it may have been our first visit to a movie theater since 9/11. (This was in the Midwest, at a point when I was growing tired of multiplex fare and I wasn't anywhere that enjoyed the kind of film programming NYC has, not even close.) So coming in completely fresh, it was absolutely wonderful, unlike anything I was used to and absolutely hysterical. To this day, a friend of mine from home (and still there) will quote lines from it to me during appropriate (or rather inappropriate) moments.

[Lemmy Caution]

Interesting how there's no consensus on Andersons films.
For me, Tanenbaum's is clearly at the top.
Moonrise Kingdom works for me. Bottle Rocket is interesting.
Budapest Hotel stars the set design. Rushmore is okay, but largely doesnt engage me.
I saw a poor copy of Mr. Fox, kinda liked it. But need a rewatch.
Actively disliked Darjeeling. Found Aquatic Life a complete snooze, except for the Bowie songs in Portuguese.

I didn't realize how much Anderson put out since the pandemic, nor how far behind i am. The pandemic was a 3 year isolation in China, while the Golden Age of Pirated Dvds ended a year or so before that. My movie watching has really collapsed.

[The Curious Sofa]

I like The Grand Budapest Hotel, Fantastic Mr. Fox, Rushmore and Moonrise Kingdom (in that order) and nothing else. They're the only movies of his where I found the characters and the stakes compelling. Rushmore was the first of his movies I saw and it struck me as warm and funny, but after that I found The Royal Tenenbaums rather mannered and the conflicts artificial, but many people seem to have connected with it. The rest of his movies are like watching someone play with dollhouses, and I'm totally bored with them now. I skipped Asteroid City and only watched Henry Sugar because it is a short. If I read rave reviews for a future movie of his by critics who aren't fans, I might be persuaded to give him another try, but at this point I find them a chore to sit through.

[omegadirective]

If anyone has letterboxd, here's my rankings.
Top 5 Anderson:

Fantastic Mr Fox
Moonrise Kingdom
Rushmore
Darjeeling Limited
Grand Budapest Hotel

https://letterboxd.com/omegadirective/l ... -anderson/

[Yakushima]

I find it fascinating that one can find any possible combination of liked and disliked Wes Anderson films among the denizens of this forum (with one exception of Moonrise Kingdom, mentioned by most as their absolute favorite). Which makes me think twice before calling out any particular film of his as a failure, no matter how much it disappointed me personally.
My first encounter with a WA movie was a bit of a disaster – I found Rushmore extremely irritating and concluded that WA was not my cup of tea. Like Aox above, my gateway to Anderson was Life Aquatic, which I fell in love with and instantly wanted to watch everything WA made. I adored all the films he made during the great run from Bottle Rocket through Grand Budapest Hotel, including, to my surprise, Rushmore. I eventually rewatched it and could not figure out why I disliked it so much the first time around. It was pure gold!
If I had to pick favorites, Moonrise Kingdom, Life Aquatic, and Bottle Rocket are a notch above the rest, but I love all his films from that period. For nearly twenty years, Wes Anderson has been my favorite living filmmaker.
The French Dispatch felt like his first misfire, but still had plenty of Anderson's magic. It all came crashing down (for me) with Asteroid City. The image looked ugly with garish, oversaturated colors; the film lacked genuine emotion, felt tired, bored with itself, artificial, poorly acted, and painfully unfunny (considering it was billed as a comedy). As someone succinctly put it on this forum, it felt like a WA film generated by AI. I tried to revisit it several times, hoping that something would click and I would appreciate it more, but the first impression stays.
Alas, the Roald Dahl adaptations, though visually more pleasing, were done in an even more grating “avant-garde theater” style. I don’t have high hopes for The Phoenician Scheme. From the look of the trailer it seems to be another foray into Asteroid City territory.
Still, I am happy for those who find Anderson’s latest efforts rewarding and hope that at some point in the future he will make a movie that will surprise me in a good way. He is still young.

[The Narrator Returns]

Yeah, for a director so frequently accused of making the same movie over and over, nobody has the same preferences or the same belief in where he might’ve gone wrong (if they think he ever did, I don’t dislike any of them though Isle is a very easy last). I haven’t seen Rushmore or Tenenbaums in so long that I have no idea where they’d rank for me now, but I’ve revisited Life Aquatic twice in the last few years and it strikes me as a very interesting transition point between his two eras (with a lot of Noah Baumbach sourness added) more than something that can fully stand on its own. The ending gets to what I find so powerful about this new era, that level of artifice unlocking primal feeling beyond words, and the new movies play to me like that extended over feature-length.

[DimitriL]

Speaking of Wes, he says in his new Hollywood Reporter interview that Satyajit Ray's little-seen 1970 film Days and Nights in the Forest has been restored by the Film Foundation at his suggestion, premiering at Cannes this year, and coming to Criterion.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movie ... 1236209089

[Mr Sausage]

A range of reactions is exactly what I’d expect from a more homogenous output. Things at the extremes tend to produce a wider range of responses, because differences in individual taste and sensibility widen out and begin to diverge on smaller and smaller things. It’s the middle where you find more uniformity. So the forum has trouble agreeing on Wes Anderson, but we all seem to like the same James Mangold films.

[hearthesilence]

I don't like any James Mangold films.

(I haven't seen Heavy, Identity, most of Knight and Day and one of the "Wolverine" movies, but I can't say I have any desire to based on the others.)

[kekid]

Speaking of Wes, he says in his new Hollywood Reporter interview that Satyajit Ray's little-seen 1970 film Days and Nights in the Forest has been restored by the Film Foundation at his suggestion, premiering at Cannes this year, and coming to Criterion.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/mo...me-1236209089/

Thus is great news!
I think therewillbeblues will be pleased...
(Pratidwandi can't be far behind...)

[Yakushima]

Speaking of Wes, he says in his new Hollywood Reporter interview that Satyajit Ray's little-seen 1970 film Days and Nights in the Forest has been restored by the Film Foundation at his suggestion, premiering at Cannes this year, and coming to Criterion.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/mo...me-1236209089/

DmitriL, thank you for sharing this excellent interview! The link you posted did not work for some reason. This link should work.

[Walter Kurtz]

A range of reactions is exactly what I’d expect from a more homogenous output.

Yes, it's like what the director told Garbo for that last shot in Queen Christina when she asked him what he wanted for facial expression: just a blank stare. The audience will read into what they want.

My top 5 Wes Anderson Films:

The Life Aquatic
Rushmore [tie]
Moonrise Kingdom [tie]
The Royal Tenenbaums

Sorry there's only four I like. I haven't seen Fox (I don't do animation) and the trailer for Dispatch didn't do anything for me. My wife had some free tickets and wanted to see the popup for the his last film so I tagged along.

Why The Life Aquatic?

Jacques Cousteau, single-fatherhood, The Natural, film premieres, Moby-Dick, film directing, JG Ballard, dilapidated and abandoned resorts, David Bowie, angry gray skies.

[therewillbeblus]

I’ve revisited Life Aquatic twice in the last few years and it strikes me as a very interesting transition point between his two eras (with a lot of Noah Baumbach sourness added) more than something that can fully stand on its own. The ending gets to what I find so powerful about this new era, that level of artifice unlocking primal feeling beyond words, and the new movies play to me like that extended over feature-length.

I've always found the diversity of this film's core audience, in particular amongst WA films, to be fascinating. Anecdotally, a couple of the biggest 'frat bros' I've ever met in college loved The Life Aquatic, and one considered it their favorite film - but they didn't like other WAs. I've met a string of other people throughout my life, who were not into film at all, and in various fringes, who also adored it without liking Anderson. And then there are the WA fans who love it and those who hate it. Granted, this could probably be applied to other works of his as well, but there's something about The Life Aquatic's specific wavelength that feels very different for Anderson, and seems to both appeal to the masses more and less simultaneously

[The Curious Sofa]

Among people I know and read, I have not encountered a wide range of favorites among Anderson films (though social media has taught me that every film has its superfans). He is a divisive director, but even many Anderson skeptics like Fantastic Mr. Fox and Budapest Hotel, and after that Moonrise Kingdom, Tenenbaums and Rushmore. I think for the rest you have to be a devotee. I don't know any frat boys, and I personally never made it all the way through The Life Aquatic. It anticipates the stultifying archness that has bogged down everything since Budapest Hotel for me.

[Mr Sausage]

I don't like any James Mangold films.

(I haven't seen Heavy, Identity, most of Knight and Day and one of the "Wolverine" movies, but I can't say I have any desire to based on the others.)

That just means you’re not part of the ‘what are your favourite James Mangold films?’ discussion.

When we did have that discussion on here the same three or four films kept popping up. As you’d expect. People don’t have strong opinions about James Mangold usually.

[Walter Kurtz]

Why The Life Aquatic?

Jacques Cousteau, single-fatherhood, The Natural, film premieres, Moby-Dick, film directing, JG Ballard, dilapidated and abandoned resorts, David Bowie, angry gray skies.

Films are rather like Rorschach tests, aren't they? Instead of a "stultifying archness" I see a man (Zissou) who - unlike Ahab - becomes rather self-actualized at the end after a great deal of character growth. His final question "Do you think he remembers me?" is not only easily the most poignant moment in Andersons oeuvre but - for me - one of the most poignant moments in any film, ever.

Moby-Dick is very meaningful for me because I took an American Lit class soph year in college and the teacher told me after the first class to drop the course because he would flunk me no matter what if I chose to stay in the class (I sort of took command of the classroom it seems). I stayed in the course and didn't do any work at all. Didn't read anything. Figured I'd know something about the books for the final just from being alive and observant. Unfortunately the final had only one one question and was only about one book----Moby-Dick. It was the one book I knew nothing about except for 3 things. It was about a whale. A white whale. A big, white whale.

That's it. So I wrote for 3 1/2 hours about bigness and whiteness in the universe. (Didn't know anything about whales.)

Grades were posted on a bulletin board in the main hall. Next to the grade listing was a stapled exam booklet with my 3.5 hours of scribbling and a big red A+++. That told me two things. I could write. And I could bullshit better than anybody I'd ever met.

[aox]

I’m guessing I’m the only one here who hates Rushmore.

While I like the movie, my partner feels the same way about Rushmore. According to her, she just finds the premise (student and teacher storyline) itself kind of "icky".

[therewillbeblus]

It can be a difficult movie to love, but I think a lot of problems people have with it wind up being its greatest strengths: namely, Jason Schwartzman's character being "annoying" and the drama that ensues from his traits. To me, he is a great example of a developmentally-appropriate solipsistic teenager. The film can be read as a process of 'awakening', to realizing you're not the most important person in the world - and the necessity of other people, often involving messy relationships and conflict, that it takes to figure that out

I also think the film was ahead of its time in separating romantic relationships from the sexual component. Ms. Cross is not sexually attracted to Max, but there is a romantic element to their friendship that is unique to them - he evokes memories of her deceased husband and she resembles his ideal partner as an adolescent, a figure who (although not directly named) evokes memories of his deceased mother

[Mr Sausage]

Weird to think that I found Rushmore way more unpleasant and offputting than Queen of Hearts, despite the latter being, like, the ne plus ultra of unpleasant, offputting age-gap relationship films.

I suspect it was something about the artifice that made all the unpleasant aspects unbearable. Like being both arch and cringey was too much. Baumbach’s The Squid and the Whale had much the same character trajectory and was peopled with mostly unpleasant characters behaving uncomfortably, yet I really enjoyed it. Maybe too I had trouble recognizing the Rushmore characters as real people, making it harder to put up with their unpleasant aspects.

[knives]

A range of reactions is exactly what I’d expect from a more homogenous output. Things at the extremes tend to produce a wider range of responses, because differences in individual taste and sensibility widen out and begin to diverge on smaller and smaller things. It’s the middle where you find more uniformity. So the forum has trouble agreeing on Wes Anderson, but we all seem to like the same James Mangold films.

This is a reasonable sounding theory, but the two directors I think of the most as having a heterogeneity of response, Soderbergh and Altman, are extremely versatile in story and style.

[Mr Sausage]

But they’re also at the extreme—just the other end of it.

[knives]

Okay, I get that. Bell curve logic.

[big ticket]

It’s fine, not anything bad about being thought that way other than stolen valor! My avatar is a paparazzi picture of Michelle Williams from probably close to 20 years ago, though

I have long wondered this, so thank you for sharing!

To keep it to Wes, I will chime in to say that I find Grand Budapest to be his best work yet.