Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

Vinegar Syndrome, Deaf Crocodile, Imprint, Kino, and more
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2226 Post by MichaelB »

ianthemovie wrote: Tue Apr 22, 2025 11:43 amBoth include interviews with editor Roberto Perpignani and an archival interview with Bertolucci though the running times are different so it's unclear whether they're based on the same footage.
Would the difference be explained by framerate conversion? It's entirely plausible:

(a) that these presumably European-sourced interviews originated on PAL video at 25fps;
(b) that Imprint would have presented them like that, as Australia is a PAL-compatible territory;
(c) that Vinegar Syndrome would have slowed them down to 23.976fps, because most US setups can't handle 25fps.

Total guesswork on my part, though, as I don't have the running times to hand.
User avatar
ianthemovie
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:51 pm
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2227 Post by ianthemovie »

That's an interesting theory, Michael. I'll check the specifications for the Imprint when I get home.
User avatar
ianthemovie
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:51 pm
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2228 Post by ianthemovie »

More detailed info on Last Tango special features:

Exclusive to Vinegar Syndrome edition: (per VS's website)

"From Parma to Paris (via Rome)" (30 min) - an interview with long-term Bertolucci collaborator Francesco Barilli
"Location Scouting for the Tango" (7 min) - featurette looking at the locations of Last Tango in Paris as they are now

Exclusive to the Imprint:

"Journey to the End of Death" (36 min) - interview with film critic Piero Spila (2024)
"Of Tango and Light" - (34 min) interview with camera assistant Mauro Marchetti (2024)
Trailers from Hell with Larry Karaszewski

Possible overlaps:

VS: "Our Last Tango" (12 min) - an interview with editor Roberto Perpignani and "Before the Tango" (28 min) + Roberto Perpignani on his early collaborations with Bernardo Bertolucci versus Imprint "Master of the Italian New Wave" (33 min) - interview with editor Roberto Perpignani (2024). So these interviews run a total of 40 minutes (VS) and 33 minutes (Imprint). Unclear whether that is due to PAL speed-up, different edits of the same interview footage, or different interviews.

VS: "A Conversation with Bernardo Bertolucci" (30 min) - "an archival interview with Bernardo Bertolucci" versus Imprint's "previously unseen video interview with Bernardo Bertolucci" (filmed in 1989) (17 min). Unclear whether these are different edits of the same interview.

Having already invested in the Imprint that edition will probably be sufficient for me, unless VS's 4K presentation gets rave reviews. Only then would I consider double-dipping.
User avatar
Captain Paranoia
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2023 12:33 am

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2229 Post by Captain Paranoia »

MichaelB wrote: Sun Apr 20, 2025 8:54 am UPDATE: It turns out that there is a controversy over this disc, but it's over the absence of the original United Artists ident at the start, something over which Vinegar Syndrome would have had no say or control as these things are contractually imposed by the current rightsholder. Sadly, I've been in this boat myself as well.
This kind of reminds of how with the controversy surrounding Kino's release of Bring Me The Head of Alfredo Garcia using MGM's older master as opposed to Arrow's 4K restoration, an element of the older release was replacing the original United Artists logo with the 2001 one whereas the 4K release restored the original logo. When the disc was repressed with the newer transfer, the 2001 logo's music played over the picture of the original.
nicolas
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 3:34 pm

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2230 Post by nicolas »

Last Tango in Paris VS 4K Short review and caps by Kyle @ BR.com. A remarkable upgrade.
beamish14
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 7:07 pm

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2231 Post by beamish14 »

Better Off Dead is getting a 4K from Paramount. Shame, as this would’ve been a perfect title for VS
User avatar
dwk
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:10 pm

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2232 Post by dwk »

The Golden Child UHD (VSU)
Jade UHD
Dirty Work UHD
Swimming to Cambodia (Cinematographe)
Naked Came the Stranger UHD (Melusine)

Mystery Pre-order titles Clue:
Well, we’ve still got a set of terrifying treats that’ll be perfect additions to your library with the world 4K UHD debuts of two horror gems, one a brooding and atmospheric masterpiece from the 70s, and the other a grim and gruesome early 90s classic by an auteur of the macabre. VS has newly and exclusively restored both for their stunning UHD debuts.
Partner Labels
A Life in Dirty Movies (Film Movement)
Action: The October Crisis of 1970 (Canadian International Pictures)
Batang West Side (Kani)
Blood Quantum (Shudder)
Consumed (Brainstorm Media)
Crass: The Sound of Free Speech - The Story of Reality Asylum (Factory 25)
The Monopoly of Violence + A German Youth (Big World Pictures)
Red Island (Film Movement)
Satan Wants You (ETR Media)
The Scare Film Archives Volume 2: Danger Storys (AGFA)
Sleeping Beauty (IFC Films)
The Soultangler (Bleeding Skull)
Time to Die (Film Movement Classics)
The Wait (Film Movement)
You Are Alone (Saturn's Core)
User avatar
TechnicolorAcid
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2023 11:43 pm

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2233 Post by TechnicolorAcid »

Nothing much I’m interested in but Dirty Work with a dirtier cut will be a definite purchase and while that cover doesn’t look good at all it’s also the type of cover that would make a stellar Norm joke about buying his own movie cause he thought he was getting a hardcore gay porno.
User avatar
JSC
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 1:17 pm

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2234 Post by JSC »

Swimming to Cambodia is a pretty big deal. Too bad they couldn't get
Monster in a Box as well.
beamish14
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 7:07 pm

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2235 Post by beamish14 »

I have the German Filmmuseum edition of Batang West Side, so I’m not sure if I’ll get this. Definitely picking up October Crisis.

That assembly cut of Dirty Work is a huge score. Never bootlegged and long hoped-for among those who love that film
User avatar
The Elegant Dandy Fop
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:25 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2236 Post by The Elegant Dandy Fop »

I can't be the only one who loves Dirty Work here, right? I saw it so many times as a kid and still enjoy jokes like "Men In Black who like to have sex with each other".
beamish14
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 7:07 pm

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2237 Post by beamish14 »

JSC wrote: Thu May 01, 2025 4:24 pm Swimming to Cambodia is a pretty big deal. Too bad they couldn't get
Monster in a Box as well.

I keep hoping that someone will release a Nick Broomfield box set one of these days. His 80’s films never made the leap from VHS
User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:40 pm

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2238 Post by therewillbeblus »

The Elegant Dandy Fop wrote: Thu May 01, 2025 4:25 pm I can't be the only one who loves Dirty Work here, right? I saw it so many times as a kid and still enjoy jokes like "Men In Black who like to have sex with each other".
You're not alone. It's hysterical, and there are a few jokes my childhood friends and I still kick around once in a while
beamish14
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 7:07 pm

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2239 Post by beamish14 »

Can anyone vouch for the Arturo Ripstein? I’ve never seen Time to Die, but I enjoy other films of his
nicolas
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 3:34 pm

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2240 Post by nicolas »

The Dirty Work reconstruction is a massive accomplishment. All details here:
Spoiler
In 1998, “Saturday Night Live” colleagues Norm Macdonald, Frank Sebastiano, and Fred Wolf teamed up to write “Dirty Work,” a vehicle for Macdonald in which he played a prankster who put his talents to professional use by opening up a revenge-for-hire business. The comedy, directed by comedian Bob Saget, quickly came and went from theaters but found its audience on home video, where it became a beloved cult classic with famous fans like Kevin Hart, who declared it one of his favorite movies of all time on his “Comedy Gold Minds” podcast.

Yet for the filmmakers, “Dirty Work” always felt like a compromise, because commercial considerations dictated that it be released with a PG-13 rating even though it was written as an R movie. “When we wrote the movie, they told us not to worry about the rating,” Sebastiano told IndieWire. “If we had been a little more experienced, maybe we would have shot some coverage for a TV version or something, but we didn’t do a lot of that.”

When it became clear that the studio wanted “Dirty Work” to go out with a PG-13, the filmmakers voiced their concerns. “During filming, we actually brought it up to one of the executives that it seemed like an R-rated movie, and he said they were going to figure it out later,” Sebastiano said. “He said, ‘Don’t worry about it, we’ll just lock and loop it.’ And that’s what ended up happening.”

Macdonald was never happy that cutting the movie not only lost some of the jokes but also interfered with the comic rhythm. Over the years, he gave interviews alluding to a mythical “dirtier” cut of “Dirty Work” that existed before the version released in theaters. One of the fans who became obsessed with this dirtier version was Oscar Becher, an archivist at physical media label Vinegar Syndrome who counts “Dirty Work” among his favorite films alongside “The Third Man” and Charles Laughton’s “The Night of the Hunter.”

“There were weird moments in the theatrical cut of ‘Dirty Work’ where you could tell that a lot was taken out of it,” Becher told IndieWire. “When I found out there was an earlier cut, it was really a revelation — I realized that even as recently as the 1990s, there are lost films.” Becher convinced the powers that be at Vinegar Syndrome that “Dirty Work” was worthy of a reconstruction and restoration, provided the original elements could be found.

The good news was that rights-holder MGM not only had the original camera negative for “Dirty Work” but also the negatives of the dailies, meaning all the lost footage still existed somewhere in the vaults. The bad news was that there were limited elements when it came to any actual preview or workprint cuts. Becher explained that, ironically, films of that era are sometimes harder to restore lost footage to than older films. While earlier movies typically had film elements for everything, by the late 1990s, workprints were created on video, with time code matched to the negative to produce film prints only very late in the process.

MGM did have a video workprint with timecode that provided a road map to where excised footage would exist in the original negative, and when Vinegar Syndrome reached out to Sebastiano to see if he had anything they could use for extra features he made a crucial discovery: a VHS tape of a preview cut from before the studio and MPAA took their scissors to the movie. “This was from a preview in a mall or something,” Sebastiano said. “It’s shot by a camera in the corner. It was basically for George Folsey, the editor, to have a reference point for how things played at the screening.”

The VHS copy provided an important guide for the restoration team, but it almost didn’t get to them. “I put it into the VCR, and it immediately got stuck,” Sebastiano said. “I got a screwdriver and took the VCR apart, and luckily it didn’t suck the tape up. I threw the VCR out and put it in another machine, a VHS/DVD combo player, and the thing played.”

Using the preview cut, the workprint tape, and a two-hour assembly video they found, Becher and restoration artist Kurtis Spieler began the arduous task of comparing the various versions to the theatrical cut and providing time code to MGM, so that they could retrieve the needed shots from the negative. “Seven or eight minutes of footage doesn’t sound like a lot, but it’s thousands of feet of film,” Becher said. “We had to find those thousands in what would essentially be hundreds of thousands of feet.”

“Because the tape versions were works in progress, we could only use them as road maps,” Spieler told IndieWire. “We had to determine what was edited due to content versus what was edited in order to make a tighter movie. This became difficult when narratively things were changed or moved. For example, in the ‘dirtier version,’ the opening sequence is edited differently in order to include a particularly raunchy joke involving donuts. So, I had to figure out how to make those edits while adding the ‘dirtier’ footage and have it all blend seamlessly.”

While reassembling the picture was one task, the sound was a whole other challenge. “I only really had two sound sources to work with, the full 5.1 theatrical mix and the unfinished sound from the ‘dirtier’ rough cut tape,” Spieler said. “We didn’t have access to stems or splits, so there wasn’t really a way to separate anything in the theatrical cut. I had to figure out how to blend unfinished sound from a tape into a full sound mix without it standing out too much.”

Spieler accomplished this through some creative editing and looping sounds from other parts of the movie when needed. “One sequence that I think worked well was during the opera sequence when one of Norm’s audio recordings is played over the speakers in the theatre,” Spieler said. “What was said in the theatrical version was different from what was intended to be said in the ‘dirtier version.’ So, I had to figure out how to blend that line into the theatrical sound and give it the right effects to make it sound like it was coming through the speakers in the theatre.”

The end result of all this work is an extraordinary new physical release that gives “Dirty Work” the deluxe treatment its fans have been waiting for — and then some. The generously appointed package includes both the theatrical and “dirtier” cuts on both 4K UHD and Blu-ray, along with a video-sourced assembly cut featuring an additional half-hour of never-before-seen footage. There are also hours of newly created extra features, from commentary tracks and interviews to a feature-length making-of documentary. It’s one of the most comprehensive special editions Vinegar Syndrome — or any other label — has ever released.


For Sebastiano, the release is a long-delayed validation of his and his partners’ efforts. “At the test screenings, they tested both an R and a PG-13 version, and the R-rated cut did better,” he said. “The studio just determined that it didn’t do better enough to justify releasing it from a business point of view. It was crushing to us at the time because it wasn’t the funniest version of the movie. And Chevy Chase was bummed because he did the movie for a fraction of his asking price just because he liked the script — he did it for the same amount he got paid for his first movie, ‘Foul Play.’ He said, ‘Don’t let them do that to your movie,’ and he was right, but there was nothing we could do.”

The Vinegar Syndrome release stands not only as a vindication for the creators of “Dirty Work,” who are still with us, but as a tribute to those like Macdonald, Saget, and costar Chris Farley, who have passed away since the film’s release.

“I know Norm and Bob both wanted to see the ‘dirtier version’ released for audiences, and it’s an honor to be able to bring this to the public for the first time,” Spieler said. “Even though this was one of the harder projects I personally had to work on, I’m hoping that my work goes unnoticed. I just want the audience to appreciate this version of the film for what it is.”

The 4K UHD special edition of “Dirty Work” is now available on Vinegar Syndrome’s website.
I’ve never heard of the film before until today and just ordered a copy to support such a brilliant restoration effort.
User avatar
cdnchris
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:45 pm
Location: Washington
Contact:

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2241 Post by cdnchris »

I'm picking it up, too, but only remember the "dead hooker" bit because my one friend, after drinking quite a bit, would suddenly start quoting it out of nowhere, most specifically "there's a dead hooker in your trunk" and "I've never seen so many dead hookers in all my life!" I still have no idea why, but thankfully it was never in public.
User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:40 pm

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2242 Post by therewillbeblus »

The best bit is when they realize they're related and begin talking about Lange's sister, which takes a sour turn quite quickly
User avatar
cdnchris
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:45 pm
Location: Washington
Contact:

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2243 Post by cdnchris »

Oh the
Spoiler
"and remember when I had sex with her!?"
moment (or something to that end). Ha, I remember that, too.
User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:40 pm

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2244 Post by therewillbeblus »

Yeah, it's the delivery and pause coming after other more innocent memories.. just hits perfectly
User avatar
bad future
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2245 Post by bad future »

I watched Dirty Work with friends on VHS as a teen in the early 2000s and we were convinced it was some unheralded masterpiece. Revisited recently after Norm and Saget's passing and inevitably it didn't quite live up to my memory but it did have a real feeling of everyone involved having "gotten away" with something. (Not quite, as it turns out; they would have if it wasn't for those meddling producers!) At times it barely feels like a movie; many of the jokes barely feel like jokes. It's just pure unbridled malice, as interested in making a palatable studio comedy as an adopted cat who only wants to bite people and smear shit on the walls.

Or is that just what comedies for 12 year old boys were like in 1998? Either way, I love reading about unlikely and miraculous restoration efforts like this! Feels like a very worthwhile endeavor to me as once the notion of a superior, originally intended R-rated cut is introduced it feels completely obvious and essential in retrospect, but of course for a film like this Vinegar Syndrome are likely one of the only entities who would not only agree on the merits but actually put in the effort, expense and expertise to make it happen.
User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2246 Post by MichaelB »

Naked Came the Stranger hopefully means that a 4K upgrade of The Private Afternoons of Pamela Mann, one of my favourite Radley Metzgers, is on the cards - both films have only been out on DVD before.
Last edited by MichaelB on Fri May 02, 2025 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:49 pm

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2247 Post by knives »

beamish14 wrote: Thu May 01, 2025 4:28 pm Can anyone vouch for the Arturo Ripstein? I’ve never seen Time to Die, but I enjoy other films of his
It’s a really great movie. It’s also written by my favorite Spanish language author Carlos Fuentes (and I guess you can count Gabriel García Márquez too)
User avatar
luxta
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:16 am

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2248 Post by luxta »

VSL will be bringing to Blu an early 70s oddball Euro film (one emphatically set in North America) with an unusual leading duo and a typically twisted and downbeat New American Cinema attitude—despite not being American.
Cannabis AKA The Mafia Wants Blood (1970)?
Last edited by luxta on Thu Jun 12, 2025 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
luxta
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:16 am

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2249 Post by luxta »

Maybe Breathless (1983).
Spoiler
Image

Image
Plus, we've prepared a second Cinématographe, this time offering the 4K UHD debut of an early 80s favorite from a director known to traverse the indie-Hollywood line.
User avatar
Finch
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: United States

Re: Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

#2250 Post by Finch »

New releases from VS:

Lets Scare Jessica to Death 4K
The Dark Half 4K
Breathless 1983 4K
Charley One Eye BD
Iron Angels 1 - 3 BD set
Post Reply