Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

[DimitriL]

Captain Paranoia, your list reminded me how I sigh every time I look at my DVD shelf and see all the Dardennes, Sokurov, and Claire Denis films that have only been released on that format. Some of our greatest living filmmakers, and yet!

I always assume that Barry Jenkins e-mails once a month begging them to release a complete Claire Denis box.

[ryannichols7]

One the other hand, I'm going for their Antoine Doinel set instead of Carlotta's. But could someone urge them to include commentary tracks for the other films as well? They don't seem to be there judging by the preliminary specs. I understand this involves creating new sets of English subs which can be very costly but it seems worth the effort given how slim extras are on the subsequent films. I also noticed that Les mistons has also been restored in 4K which is not the case on the Carlotta set, if I remember correctly.

we're only just now getting Criterion to commission new commentaries again, something they do seem set on doing with more regularity now. I'll take what we can get, even though I do agree - I never owned the Doniel set before but I'm really surprised by just how light it is on the extras. but I've also felt that way about The 400 Blows too, though the Brian Stonehill commentary is an all timer for me.

Still kinda wish could get 400 Blows individual on 4k. Anyone know if that is something BFI could/might release?

They had the chance to do so back in 2022 when they issued the blu-ray but passed it up. I don't think they have ever second guessed their choices so far.

they rejected doing a 4K of The 400 Blows over the masters, which is something I remain cautious for with the Criterion box. the larger issue is they didn't really do anything new or creative supplement wise to compel me to pick it up to compliment my longtime Criterion. the BFI have gotten a lot better at this - the new Kurosawa and Ozu releases and the Akerman boxsets are ample with great stuff, and I even voted BFI label of the year in 2023 after they had a nice "comeback", but their handling of the Truffaut and Bergman titles was incredibly lacklustre. given how none of their Bergman boxsets have sold out yet, and you can routinely grab the Truffaut discs ultra cheap, I can't help but wonder if they second guess those a bit..

Some cool things this month, but is it just me or are they doing noticeably fewer new additions to the collection that aren't in English? Other than the Janus Contemporaries, that is, both of the last two month's slates don't have any new films that aren't either entirely or primarily in English. So far this year I'm only seeing The Mother And The Whore, King Lear (I don't know how much of that is in English), Godzilla vs Biollante, The Wind Will Carry Us, and Jean De Florette/Manon of the Spring - five releases over seven months. I think they are doing releases of good movies and they're doing a good job with them but this is a bit frustrating knowing how many great foreign films they are sitting on, in some cases for years.

I'm starting to notice this too, just hoping it's not a trend. last year we had some massive rescues with Werckmeister Harmonies, I Am Cuba, Farewell My Concubine, the Muratova dual, and Demon Pond. but they have been doing a lot more English language titles, but at least we're moving into "definitive upgrades" (The Big Heat, Night Moves, No Country for Old Men) and "major rescues" (You Can Count on Me, Crossing Delancey, Winchester '73, Carnal Knowledge, Killer of Sheep) when it comes to English language titles. I feel pretty alright with where Criterion is at for the moment - they're moving away from doing more contemporary Netflix and Amazon junk we'll all forget about shortly after release and sticking to the big hitters that we love them for.

The thing is, Criterion kind of used to be the only game in town for this kind of thing. Now you've got many other boutique labels releasing things that have never seen the light of day: Deaf Crocodile, Indicator, and Radiance chief among them. Criterion is now in the position of again being a trusted partner of most of the major studios just like they were in the laserdisc days. So for every likely big seller like Risky Business or Bound they can rescue a nearly lost film like Not a Pretty Picture or Victims of Sin or an overlooked studio film like Chilly Scenes of Winter or Chose Me.

That said, their former bread and butter of European art cinema and classic Japanese cinema is now pretty overlooked, and they are sitting on a huge pile of these films, content to just throw them on the Channel.

perfectly said. they are using their studio leverage well to bring us some genuinely great stuff, mixed in with rescues here and there. but it is still worrying that we aren't seeing as many European or Japanese classics. it's awesome that they're doing 4Ks of stuff like Ugetsu or 8 1/2 and believe me, I'm very happy to own those. but I'd also love to see Street of Shame rescued from Eclipse or Nights of Cabiria have its standalone back in print with more extras. or much deeper dives into directors in the circles of Mizoguchi or Fellini. Criterion own the rights to a lot of this stuff, and if someone like Radiance who actively want to release whatever given title aren't able to because Criterion is sitting on it, then I really hope Criterion can get them out. we've brought up Kinuyo Tanaka ad nauseum on this forum but that's such a perfect example of something they're so obviously sitting on at this point. I'm hopeful we'll see that box before the year is out, but it would be disheartening to think that for all the Doniel boxes they'll move (and they'll surely sell a lot!), they can't find space in the schedule to get that smaller (but very significant) seller out there...

I genuinely feel like I've been a lot more positive towards this label lately. just want to reflect on that!

[FrauBlucher]

This falls under conjecture... I was thinking of some more John Fords that could possibly enter Collection. I know they've been sitting on The Long Voyage Home for what seems like forever. So, maybe someday. But what else? The Informer has no bluray release and would be prime for CC. Unfortunately, all the Ford Fox titles would be tough at this point. UHD releases of The Grapes of Wrath and/or How Green Was My Valley would be no brainers. Perhaps later Warner Bros Fords have a better chance assuming that they could and will release them in 4K

[Omensetter]

7 Women always struck me as a no-brainer release.

[beamish14]

This falls under conjecture... I was thinking of some more John Fords that could possibly enter Collection. I know they've been sitting on The Long Voyage Home for what seems like forever. So, maybe someday. But what else? The Informer has no bluray release and would be prime for CC. Unfortunately, all the Ford Fox titles would be tough at this point. UHD releases of The Grapes of Wrath and/or How Green Was My Valley would be no brainers. Perhaps later Warner Bros Fords have a better chance assuming that they could and will release them in 4K

The Long Voyage Home, like Trouble in Paradise, had a great restoration undertaken over a decade ago. I just don’t understand why they haven’t come out yet

Speaking of Eugene O’Neill, I’d love to see a 4K of Lumet’s Long Day’s Journey Into Night, which was a bare-bones Olive release

[hearthesilence]

7 Women always struck me as a no-brainer release.

I first saw this at BAM in 2009 when it was presented by the late Elliott Stein. (It was one of the final years when BAM had 35mm repertory screenings everyday...glad I took advantage of that at the time, but man do I miss those days.) Great screening, and it was pointed out that more shots or scenes existed, which you could only find on home video (I think the old LaserDisc?) It's baffling that 16 years later, it still hasn't had an American DVD release, much less a Blu-ray or 4K restoration. At least it's streaming, but it really is one of the great final films of any filmmaker, not to mention one of Anne Bancroft's very best performances - it really deserves a better presentation.

[beamish14]

7 Women always struck me as a no-brainer release.

I first saw this at BAM in 2009 when it was presented by the late Elliott Stein. (It was one of the final years when BAM had 35mm repertory screenings everyday...glad I took advantage of that at the time, but man do I miss those days.) Great screening, and it was pointed out that more shots or scenes existed, which you could only find on home video (I think the old LaserDisc?) It's baffling that 16 years later, it still hasn't had an American DVD release, much less a Blu-ray or 4K restoration. At least it's streaming, but it really is one of the great final films of any filmmaker, not to mention one of Anne Bancroft's very best performances - it really deserves a better presentation.

Karina Longworth is a big fan of it, and I’d love to see her do an interview or commentary

[captveg]

I feel pretty alright with where Criterion is at for the moment - they're moving away from doing more contemporary Netflix and Amazon junk we'll all forget about shortly after release and sticking to the big hitters that we love them for.

Of course with how few Netflix and other streamer titles get released on disc one could consider this its own category of "rescue."

[Black Hat]

7 Women always struck me as a no-brainer release.

I first saw this at BAM in 2009 when it was presented by the late Elliott Stein. (It was one of the final years when BAM had 35mm repertory screenings everyday...glad I took advantage of that at the time, but man do I miss those days.) Great screening, and it was pointed out that more shots or scenes existed, which you could only find on home video (I think the old LaserDisc?) It's baffling that 16 years later, it still hasn't had an American DVD release, much less a Blu-ray or 4K restoration. At least it's streaming, but it really is one of the great final films of any filmmaker, not to mention one of Anne Bancroft's very best performances - it really deserves a better presentation.

Karina Longworth is a big fan of it, and I’d love to see her do an interview or commentary

Her episode on late Ford is outstanding.

[The Curious Sofa]

Longworth's current series on "old white men" in the latter part of their careers is great, I just wished she'd go easy on impersonations and dodgy accents.

[Finch]

McCrutchy on BR found a listing for a Japanese 4K of The Burmese Harp through Happinet coming in late August. I don't remember if Janus already screened the restoration here or not but hopefully if there is an exclusivity window for the Japanese disc it won't be too long. It is in SDR only, no English subs.

[Calvin]

The fact that George Feltenstein has never (to my knowledge) even been asked about 7 Women is perhaps an answer in itself, but it is quite glaring that Warner Archive have never even given it a DVD release. I wonder if there are issues with the materials or something else preventing a release.

[andyli]

McCrutchy on BR found a listing for a Japanese 4K of The Burmese Harp through Happinet coming in late August. I don't remember if Janus already screened the restoration here or not but hopefully if there is an exclusivity window for the Japanese disc it won't be too long. It is in SDR only, no English subs.

Exclusivity window is not a thing with Nikkatsu (via Happinet). Criterion released Branded to Kill on UHD before Happinet did in a blu-ray box. So I suppose The Burmese Harp UHD will happen at Criterion's discretion.

[beamish14]

Longworth's current series on "old white men" in the latter part of their careers is great, I just wished she'd go easy on impersonations and dodgy accents.

Haha! My partner and I said the same thing. Her Alfred Hitchcock is like nails on chalkboard

[FrauBlucher]

McCrutchy on BR found a listing for a Japanese 4K of The Burmese Harp through Happinet coming in late August. I don't remember if Janus already screened the restoration here or not but hopefully if there is an exclusivity window for the Japanese disc it won't be too long. It is in SDR only, no English subs.

The restoration did screen here in NY's Film Forum back in November. Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to see it

[Hogfather]

7 Women always struck me as a no-brainer release.

I first saw this at BAM in 2009 when it was presented by the late Elliott Stein. (It was one of the final years when BAM had 35mm repertory screenings everyday...glad I took advantage of that at the time, but man do I miss those days.) Great screening, and it was pointed out that more shots or scenes existed, which you could only find on home video (I think the old LaserDisc?) It's baffling that 16 years later, it still hasn't had an American DVD release, much less a Blu-ray or 4K restoration. At least it's streaming, but it really is one of the great final films of any filmmaker, not to mention one of Anne Bancroft's very best performances - it really deserves a better presentation.

According to Joseph McBride, the original director's cut of 7 Women (appropriately 7 minutes longer) was accidentally rediscovered in the 80's when it was used by unwitting MGM functionaries for tv broadcasts to fit a two-hour tv slot. This version and the theatrical cut were both used as the basis for vhs releases at different moment, but when the film was finally released in scope on DVD, the version used by MGM was the truncated theatrical cut which excludes some crucial context for the story.

McBride has said that there is an ongoing Film Foundation effort to get the dc restored and released, but it stalled out years ago. It's probably because MGM execs only think the film has interest for hobbyists, but it's disappointing that Scorsese hasn't been able to push them to at least hand someone else the materials so that they can do a proper restoration and at the very least put it on Amazon Prime. This isn't a case like My Darling Clementine where the dc doesn't exist anymore and the longer version is one of several preview versions left lying around; Ford's original vision for the film still absolutely exists and could at long last be made widely available if someone had the willpower to make it so.

[Hogfather]

This falls under conjecture... I was thinking of some more John Fords that could possibly enter Collection. I know they've been sitting on The Long Voyage Home for what seems like forever. So, maybe someday. But what else? The Informer has no bluray release and would be prime for CC. Unfortunately, all the Ford Fox titles would be tough at this point. UHD releases of The Grapes of Wrath and/or How Green Was My Valley would be no brainers. Perhaps later Warner Bros Fords have a better chance assuming that they could and will release them in 4K

The Long Voyage Home, like Trouble in Paradise, had a great restoration undertaken over a decade ago. I just don’t understand why they haven’t come out yet

Speaking of Eugene O’Neill, I’d love to see a 4K of Lumet’s Long Day’s Journey Into Night, which was a bare-bones Olive release

I just found an old listing of The Long Voyage Home from the 2015 NYFF accrediting the release to Shout!, though the Film Foundation page says that the version on Max is somehow connected to Criterion. Hopefully last year's Imprint release means Criterion will put out a 4k soon. My hope is that it's been held up because they're trying to put out a 4k; if any film deserves a 4k UHD HDR release, it's The Long Voyage Home.

Also, I second your thoughts on Long Day's Journey Into Night. Of the seven films Boris Kaufman shot for Lumet, 12 Angry Men and The Fugitive Kind currently have blu-rays (both from Criterion), The Pawnbroker, The Group, and Long Day's Journey Into Night had blu-rays that are now out of print, and neither Bye Bye Braverman nor That Kind of Woman have never received high definition releases.

[dwk]

Shout has had the theatrical rights to the Westchester Films catalog for a number of years. Since none of the ones that Criterion has released have gone OOP, I'm pretty sure they still have the physical rights. I think the streaming rights are shared (the titles Criterion have appear on the channel/Max and on the various platforms that Shout licenses to.)

[Matt]

I had forgotten about their acquisition of Westchester Films. I went to look up some of the specifics and came across this quote from a Hollywood Reporter story:

“We want to continue to grow our nonphysical distribution business,” Shout! president and co-founder Garson Foos said in an interview with The Hollywood Reporter. “This is a really good strategic move for us to acquire Westchester Films. Most of its revenue is from broadcast and digital. Going forward, we want to acquire libraries with significant digital and broadcast revenue streams."

So if most of the revenue from these titles is from broadcast and digital, and they are trying to diversify beyond physical media, they are probably content to continue to license to Criterion for physical media. I mean, I hope that's the case because I really want a 4K UHD of A Room With a View.

[dwk]

Shout has been gobbling up a lot of catalogs, they bought out Gravitas Ventures (for some reason. I don't think there are anything of interest in this catalog) and they recently seem to have signed on to, so far digitally, distribute Open Road Films.

[Hogfather]

I had forgotten about their acquisition of Westchester Films. I went to look up some of the specifics and came across this quote from a Hollywood Reporter story:

“We want to continue to grow our nonphysical distribution business,” Shout! president and co-founder Garson Foos said in an interview with The Hollywood Reporter. “This is a really good strategic move for us to acquire Westchester Films. Most of its revenue is from broadcast and digital. Going forward, we want to acquire libraries with significant digital and broadcast revenue streams."

So if most of the revenue from these titles is from broadcast and digital, and they are trying to diversify beyond physical media, they are probably content to continue to license to Criterion for physical media. I mean, I hope that's the case because I really want a 4K UHD of A Room With a View.

Given this, what do you all think is the likelihood that Shout! licenses The Killer and Hard Boiled back to Criterion?

[CSM126]

I had forgotten about their acquisition of Westchester Films. I went to look up some of the specifics and came across this quote from a Hollywood Reporter story:

“We want to continue to grow our nonphysical distribution business,” Shout! president and co-founder Garson Foos said in an interview with The Hollywood Reporter. “This is a really good strategic move for us to acquire Westchester Films. Most of its revenue is from broadcast and digital. Going forward, we want to acquire libraries with significant digital and broadcast revenue streams."

So if most of the revenue from these titles is from broadcast and digital, and they are trying to diversify beyond physical media, they are probably content to continue to license to Criterion for physical media. I mean, I hope that's the case because I really want a 4K UHD of A Room With a View.

Given this, what do you all think is the likelihood that Shout! licenses The Killer and Hard Boiled back to Criterion?

Considering how famous those are I’d expect Shout to keep them. Maybe make a deal to let criterion license some other stuff in exchange for the old commentaries.

[dwk]

Those two are the most well known titles in that catalog. I'm pretty sure that all signs are pointed to Hard Boiled being the first or second one released (City on Fire is the other one that might come out first, or the same time as Hard Boiled.)

Isn't there a Edward Yang title in the Golden Princess holdings? It'd be nice if Shout would trade the old Criterion commentaries for a chance to license that for a Yang box set.

[beamish14]

Those two are the most well known titles in that catalog. I'm pretty sure that all signs are pointed to Hard Boiled being the first or second one released (City on Fire is the other one that might come out first, or the same time as Hard Boiled.)

Isn't there a Edward Yang title in the Golden Princess holdings? It'd be nice if Shout would trade the old Criterion commentaries for a chance to license that for a Yang box set.

How essential are those commentaries? I don’t recall ever listening to them

[andyli]

Isn't there a Edward Yang title in the Golden Princess holdings? It'd be nice if Shout would trade the old Criterion commentaries for a chance to license that for a Yang box set.

That Day, on the Beach is a coproduction of Cinema City and CMPC. I don't know if it's included in the Golden Princess package Shout picked up. Edward Yang was also involved in the development stage of Esprit d'amour but was dismissed due to conflict of creative ideas. The film eventually ended up being directed by newcomer Ringo Lam.