Christian Petzold

[Cremildo]

Maybe it's just me, but what surprises me in Petzold's list is the inclusion of Den of Thieves, not Manchester By the Sea (an acclaimed film by an acclaimed playwright, screenwriter and director).

[domino harvey]

Which is of course the film I was referring to initially and the reason I posted it in the first place!

[DarkImbecile]

Shouldn't all this go in our dedicated Den of Thieves thread... oh

[FrauBlucher]

Why is it disappointing that he would like a film beloved by many people, including much of this forum?

Well, it’s disappointing to me. I am not a fan of that film. And I could have an opinion on his opinion.

[Rupert Pupkin]

There is a WEB 1080 release of "Yella" (2007) just out at via amazon
As far as I can tell this is the first time that this movie is available in HD (if this does not turn out to be upscaling); this movie kind of inspired by "Carnival of Souls" (and Kim Wilde's "Water On Glass" for the acouphenes ?) has not been released as far as I can tell in Blu-Ray; especially in Germany where there is a lot of C.Petzold movies available in blu-ray. Nina Hoss is sublime in this movie.

[nicolas]

There is a WEB 1080 release of "Yella" (2007) just out at via amazon
As far as I can tell this is the first time that this movie is available in HD (if this does not turn out to be upscaling); this movie kind of inspired by "Carnival of Souls" (and Kim Wilde's "Water On Glass" for the acouphenes ?) has not been released as far as I can tell in Blu-Ray; especially in Germany where there is a lot of C.Petzold movies available in blu-ray. Nina Hoss is sublime in this movie.

It’s not available in Germany, of all places. We can only stream in HD what’s available on BD, which are the films starting with Barbara. I think Stefan Andersson posted a while ago that the early Petzold films received grants for new 4K restorations. However it remains to be seen if and when these come out for the public. Germany is very slow in that regard and labels here tend not to care much. The label that always licensed his films is one of the smallest labels around here and they pretty much only release BDs for the Petzold films and other stuff they do is DVD or streaming only. Even Afire was DVD only until a few weeks before the release when they suddenly changed their mind. This sudden, rushed nature of the release shows in the disappointing quality of the Piffl BD.
I think it’s more likely that a foreign label like MUBI, Kino Lorber or maybe Criterion do a package deal and get all of his early works similar to the Lars von Trier restorations and do a box set.

[Maltic]

There is a WEB 1080 release of "Yella" (2007) just out at via amazon
As far as I can tell this is the first time that this movie is available in HD (if this does not turn out to be upscaling); this movie kind of inspired by "Carnival of Souls" (and Kim Wilde's "Water On Glass" for the acouphenes ?) has not been released as far as I can tell in Blu-Ray; especially in Germany where there is a lot of C.Petzold movies available in blu-ray. Nina Hoss is sublime in this movie.

I often miss a review page like dvdbeaver etc. - but for WEB releases!

Often you will only be shown a trailer when you buy a WEB release, and that can obviously be misleading in terms of the quality of the presentation you're buying.

[jegharfangetmigenmyg]

There is a WEB 1080 release of "Yella" (2007) just out at via amazon
As far as I can tell this is the first time that this movie is available in HD (if this does not turn out to be upscaling); this movie kind of inspired by "Carnival of Souls" (and Kim Wilde's "Water On Glass" for the acouphenes ?) has not been released as far as I can tell in Blu-Ray; especially in Germany where there is a lot of C.Petzold movies available in blu-ray. Nina Hoss is sublime in this movie.

I think it’s more likely that a foreign label like MUBI, Kino Lorber or maybe Criterion do a package deal and get all of his early works similar to the Lars von Trier restorations and do a box set.

Or maybe even Korea's Plain Archive. I bought this nice sturdy Petzold set that they released - along came a kitchen magnet with a Petzold quote for whatever reason: https://plainarchive.com/products/chris ... ray-boxset

I've been longing to revisit his earlier works for so long after I first saw them 10-15 years ago on dvd. Wolfsburg and Gespenster are still his best works in my view (haven't seen Afire yet). If a box set comes out, I hope it will include his TV movies as well. I have Toter Mann on letterboxed DVD, but his 3 early TV films are still only floating around out there in crappy tv rips with the logos on them. I've refused to watch them, until a more reasonable option becomes available. If ever.

The Yella stream doesn't look upscaled, by the way, but it appears to come from an older master with faded colors. It would win a lot by getting a 4K restoration (don't know if it's in the batch?).

[domino harvey]

I’ve lost touch with his last few features but Gespenster remains his masterpiece for me too. I’d love to see it on Blu

[nicolas]

There is a WEB 1080 release of "Yella" (2007) just out at via amazon
As far as I can tell this is the first time that this movie is available in HD (if this does not turn out to be upscaling); this movie kind of inspired by "Carnival of Souls" (and Kim Wilde's "Water On Glass" for the acouphenes ?) has not been released as far as I can tell in Blu-Ray; especially in Germany where there is a lot of C.Petzold movies available in blu-ray. Nina Hoss is sublime in this movie.

I think it’s more likely that a foreign label like MUBI, Kino Lorber or maybe Criterion do a package deal and get all of his early works similar to the Lars von Trier restorations and do a box set.

Or maybe even Korea's Plain Archive. I bought this nice sturdy Petzold set that they released - along came a kitchen magnet with a Petzold quote for whatever reason: https://plainarchive.com/products/chris ... ray-boxset

I've been longing to revisit his earlier works for so long after I first saw them 10-15 years ago on dvd. Wolfsburg and Gespenster are still his best works in my view (haven't seen Afire yet). If a box set comes out, I hope it will include his TV movies as well. I have Toter Mann on letterboxed DVD, but his 3 early TV films are still only floating around out there in crappy tv rips with the logos on them. I've refused to watch them, until a more reasonable option becomes available. If ever.

The Yella stream doesn't look upscaled, by the way, but it appears to come from an older master with faded colors. It would win a lot by getting a 4K restoration (don't know if it's in the batch?).

I forgot Plain Archive. I have the same set as well and it’s really great. IIRC Yella was on the list for 4K restorations together with Jerichow. No idea about the TV movies though.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Sorry guys, whilst this is not an upscale, this is obviously not a brand new restoration (greenish blacks and white dots...), but a slight fine grain.
well, "Doom Generation" turned out to be the 4K restoration which came out on blu-ray wand was for me disappointing.
On the other hand "La Naissance des pieuvres" looks stunning (and was released on blu-ray in Germany)

The irony is that French Télévision 2 just broadcast the brand new restoration by Hiventy of "La Belle Noiseuse" (this is the short version "Divertimento") which was included in the French Carlotta box set but as DVD (and not restored - they took the Cohen restoration (which was done for the "long version"); too bad it was skipped for a Blu-Ray box set in France because the "Divertimento cut" is made using alternate cuts/angles : here :
https://www.france.tv/films/festival-de ... mento.html

It's a bit sad in the meantime that such a great cineast like Jonás Trueba is not available on blu-ray even in Spain - he released 3 major movies (IMHO) which were only available as WEB release (great quality fortunately), but it's so sad that "La Virgen de Agosto" was not released on blu-ray (at first it was announced on combo blu-ray/DVD in Spain but never came out; only on DVD; like in France). Itsaso Arana is sublime in "La Virgen de Agosto" and cowrote the last movie.

Criterion should save it and release a box set with Jonás Trueba's last 3 movies including his last one and "La Virgen de Agosto"; the previous one was shot during the pandemic. :-#

[Mr Sausage]

Petzold is great at endings. What does everyone make of the ending of The State I Am In? I figure there are four options:

1. It's a dream. Jeanne goes to sleep and the whole odd and ominous sequence is a joint dream of entrapment and freedom. It would explain why she's miraculously unharmed, the police have seemed to disappear, and everything is placid.

2. It's partly a dream. Jeanne dreams the black cars etc., but everything after the crash is real. Her parents have crashed for some other reason and the actual events have influenced Jeanne's dream (breaking glass, etc). Jeanne's inability to choose between freedom and entrapment is decided for her by her parents' endless bad luck.

3. It's all real. Jeanne is freed from her parents but will soon be in the hands of the state. We see her lone, brief moment of total freedom, freed from one side but not yet claimed by the other.

4. Jeanne is dead. Everything up to the crash is real; everything following it happens after Jeanne has died in the crash (likely, given its severity and the fact she wasn't wearing a seat belt). Jeanne is left in metaphysical isolation--free, but only through complete loss.

[martin]

Excellent question and great readings. I love the film. I got the Swedish DVD more than 20 years ago and I’ve probably watched the film 5 times including a HDTV showing which I recorded.

Although we’re discussing the ending of the film, Mr Sausage was very clever in his wording to not spoil too much. I’m not sure I’m able to phrase my thoughts as precisely so maybe you shouldn’t read on if you haven’t seen the film. Or maybe an admin can put my post in a spoiler tag if necessary - or alert me to do so. But before commenting in depth on the ending I probably have to state my position on this. I’m perfectly fine with multiple readings of the ending – even when these endings are mutually exclusive. I have no particular preference and feel no urge to rank the readings in any order. But that’s just me. Instead I’ll rather suggest a few more interpretations.

My first alternative reading is a variation of your third suggestion. Instead of this being a “lone, brief moment of total freedom” it’s a real freedom. She’s not in the hand of the state but perhaps on her own or with Heinrich or somehow with the Katharina-charachter (as was supposed to happen earlier in the film). Can we call this 3b?

Another reading (no. 5?) is to consider the crash as a wishful dream. The daughter has fallen asleep and dreams that she’s free and can have her own (love-)life, friends and attend a normal school. But it’s all a dream. She and her family are still going abroad with fake passports, and their stressful paranoic life will continue just like before.

Finally (6) , like in no. 5, the car crash doesn’t really happen. But she’s all free. The car crash is just a symbolic representation of the catastrophic nature of her separation from her parents. It’s final, almost terminal. The parents will travel abroad and the daughter will never see them again.

The fact that the daughter falls asleep in her mothers lap just prior to the accident somehow suggests a kind of rebirth (being so close to the womb).

There are so many interesting thing to comment on, so I’ll probably add more in a couple of days.

[Mr Sausage]

No idea if this has been remarked on, but having caught up finally with Petzold's episode of Dreileben, I notice Jacob Matschenz plays a character named Johannes in both it and Undine. Is this meant to be the same character? It seems that way--in Undine he's still an irresponsible two-timer unsure of what he wants, he's rich just as he planned, and he's married to a pretty blonde who, while unnamed and played by a different actress, certainly fits the Sara we see in Dreileben. If so, his fate becomes a kind of justice for poor Anna.

[Walter Kurtz]

Very interesting. Great catch.

BTW watch Undine all the way to the very end of the (end) credits and see how CP completely captures the visual ending of Undine but this time with the behavior of the last line of white letters in blackness.

I therefore don't think CP does anything randomly.

[kekid]

Is Dreileben available with English subtitles? If so, where?

[Walter Kurtz]

MOD EDIT: How many times do we have to tell you guys to stop posting direct links to copyrighted material

[Walter Kurtz]

Whoops, sorry. Kekid if you go to youtube and search "Etwas Besseres als den Tod (2011) subs español" you might find something interesting. Sometimes you have to ignore the title on youtube and just sort of dig in. And then maybe click on cc in the lower right and change settings to english and if the stars align you might sometimes find either an interesting film or a film you are interested in.

[accatone]

Petzold is great at endings. What does everyone make of the ending of The State I Am In? I figure there are four options:

1. It's a dream. Jeanne goes to sleep and the whole odd and ominous sequence is a joint dream of entrapment and freedom. It would explain why she's miraculously unharmed, the police have seemed to disappear, and everything is placid.

2. It's partly a dream. Jeanne dreams the black cars etc., but everything after the crash is real. Her parents have crashed for some other reason and the actual events have influenced Jeanne's dream (breaking glass, etc). Jeanne's inability to choose between freedom and entrapment is decided for her by her parents' endless bad luck.

3. It's all real. Jeanne is freed from her parents but will soon be in the hands of the state. We see her lone, brief moment of total freedom, freed from one side but not yet claimed by the other.

4. Jeanne is dead. Everything up to the crash is real; everything following it happens after Jeanne has died in the crash (likely, given its severity and the fact she wasn't wearing a seat belt). Jeanne is left in metaphysical isolation--free, but only through complete loss.

I see no reason for the ending not being all real aka option 3. I can recommand the 2023 published „Christan Petzold Interview“ book, edit by Abel, Bademsoy and Fisher. Translation is imo a lttle „wooden“ - but the interviews are very rich and enlightening.

[Mr Sausage]

There’s the odd, dreamlike way Petzold shoots it of course. He doesn’t present it in his strictly naturalist mode. See his aforementioned Dreileben episode for a similar injection of the dreamlike into the ending moments in order to destabilize them (tho’ Hochhaüsler’s entry would of course make Petzold’s ending literal and concrete).

[accatone]

I feel and understand where you are coming from. Your interpretations of the ending are comprehensible and the comparisons to later, more dream like Petzold films make sense. YELLA and GESPENSTER would follow these observations as well. I agree that the mise en scene is dreamlike (the way Petzolds shoots). But this doesn't make the actual story a dream, so to say.

I re-watched INNERE SICHERHEIT only yesterday evening (triggered by the Interview book). With the extras of the old DVD there is an interview with CP and the actress of Clara, Barbara Auer. Petzold points out that the mother-daughter relationship was very important to the film. The mother, Clara (as for being "klar", i.e. "clear" in english), obviously from a bourgeois background (the german Bildungsbürgertum), is changing sides (extreme left), having a rather proletarian partner (car mechanic, technical minded - Handwerk), and living in the illegal "Untergrund". CP goes on to say that the daughter could be understood as a kind of rebirth of the mother - trying to get back, out of the Underground, into a regular family lifestyle. But from the beginning its clear that this is a hopeless situation.

For me this hopelessness is the main topic of the film. There are many threads one can follow, especially with the daughter and the mother in terms of metaphorical interpretations. But overall, in my opinion and to what i know about former RAF terrorists in the underground (hot topic atm in germany again), the script and mise en scene is too much based on realism to suggest a non realistic reading. Even though the film is shot "dream-like" in certain scenes.

[Mr Sausage]

the script and mise en scene is too much based on realism to suggest a non realistic reading. Even though the film is shot "dream-like" in certain scenes.

But Petzold is the king of doing just that, of using mainly realist techniques (script, formal devices, psychology) and yet injecting that realism with undercurrents of fantasy (generic or otherwise). Some have a more explicit sense of fantasy, eg. Yella and Undine; some let generic material suggest a sense of unreality. eg. Jerichow and Something to Remind Me; and some do it through intertextuality, eg. Phoenix. Even his latest, Afire, a thoroughly realist chamber drama, has tinges of magic and fate all throughout, as well as an ending that gently undermines the reality of much of what we've seen. Petzold has spent his career heightening realism for expressive purposes.

Again, check out Petzold's Dreileben episode for the exact same thing: a mainly realist drama whose penultimate scene has an ambiguous reality, both because of a sudden injection of genre techniques and because a character suddenly wakes from it, suggesting a dream.

Anyway, you accept all my premises but reject the conclusion. I don't know, sounds like you just don't want it to be true, for whatever reason. But you're a sophisticated enough viewer to know that when a filmmaker sets up an aesthetic and then violates it, especially at the end, that violation is important. Petzold evidently wanted his ending to be ambiguous on a bunch of levels, including whether or not it's really happening. I have no trouble embracing that ambiguity.

[martin]

I'm sorry, I wrote this about Die innere sicherheit/The State I'm In before the last posts from accatone and Mr Sausage.

Three things I find particularly interesting: 1. The turning point, 2. The film at the school, 3. The “stealth” skills.

1. There is some sort of turning point late in the movie but it’s been set up throughout the film: Jeanne, the daughter, steals a Diego Maradonna (sic!) T-shirt of the same kind that Paulina wore earlier in the film. This suggests that Jeanne wants to be like her, have her own room where she can listen to music, have a boyfriend.

Spoiler

Later, Jeanne goes with a random girl to attend a class, so it seems reasonable to think Jeanne misses attending a regular school, having classmates.

She also sneaks off at night to see Heinrich, suggesting she wants a boyfriend or to have a love life.

There is a turning point later when the parents are taking Jeanne to Katharina. They say (paraphrased, out of order): “You must have girlfriends to share clothes with. You must attend a normal school. This is not a life for you: You can’t live underground and be in love”.

They address some of Jeanne’s wishes for her life and they seem to recognise her needs. It’s also worth noticing that the parents mistrust their daughter to such a degree that they suspect she set them up at the bank robbery. So they truly acknowledge Jeanne’s need for freedom. Jeanne can have all that but she refuses! She wants to be with her parents. They stop the car, change drivers and make a U turn (literally a turning point). There are many things to interpret here but regarding the ending, I think this supports a more fatalistic reading. It doesn’t make much sense if the parents are willing to give the daughter her freedom, but when she refuses their offer, she still gets the same freedom. In terms of dramatic structure, a more pessimistic reading makes more sense, I think.

Personally I still like to interpret the ending as positive seen from Jeanne’s perspective.

2. The film shown at the school is Resnais’ Night and Fog. I find it interesting that there’s a very long and painful scene in Margarethe von Trotta’s terrorist film Die bleierne Zeit (1981) where the sisters in their teens watch the same film at school.

3. When Jeanne and Klaus are walking from the gas station down the dirt road discussing Moby Dick (with implied hints at freedom Etc. that I will not delve into), the parents suddenly appear right behind them! The parents are standing still while Jeanne and Klaus are walking away from them. Did Jeanne and Klaus walk straight past the parents (or through them)?

There are several similar scenes, for instance when Jeanne ties her shoelaces after leaving Heinrich’s place and her mother suddenly turns up right next to her. Also when the father apparently has been following Jeanne and discovers how she hid the stolen clothes.

You can argue that these stealth-like skills are necessary when living under cover or underground – they’re a skill of the trade, so to speak. But it also addresses cinematic time and space and how it doesn’t match time and space of the physical world. Genre conventions rely on this mismatch (for instance jump scares in horror movies or how a hero, PI or fall guy in an empty storehouse can suddenly be hit on the head) and Petzold here seems to stress how movies are not really realistic.

[Mr Sausage]

It’s also worth noticing that the parents mistrust their daughter to such a degree that they suspect she set them up at the bank robbery.

You can see their mistrust in how often they interrogate Jeanne instead of just talking with her (and despite at one point giving her tips on how to resist interrogation!). Even after the mom has caught Jeanne losing her virginity, she can only interrogate her daughter in this cold manner, not have a mother-daughter bonding moment. She even responds to Jeanne's understandably defensive reaction with violence. Sex, violence, and suspicion haunts this whole family dynamic.

[Never Cursed]

Petzold’s newest film will premiere in Director’s Fortnight at Cannes