I mean per the second article they still had Midjourney generate concept art, which is removed from context the same as when some dickhead CEO uses it to "get a sense" of what something will look like. I don't think that's good, but I don't think it invalidates the movie's quality, either, as some on social media appear to be claiming. The vocal cleanup stuff on the other hand doesn't really bother me, since (1). it was a locally trained network rather than a larger server and (2). movies have been using the same or similar technologies for several years now without artistic or environmental issue. I'm pretty sure The Other Side of the Wind, for instance, used a bunch of tools like this one to deal with degraded or missing dialogue recordings.
The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
- Never Cursed
- Such is life on board the Redoutable
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Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
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Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
Calling out the use of AI to create art is a moral imperative, not fear-mongering. Tech bros with no value of art (much less the soul of an artist) who “watch” Netflix on one screen while scrolling on another and messaging on a third think AI can replace the kind of art they digest because it can. People who know enough to post here should express more concern, not less
- mfunk9786
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Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
Luckily I no longer know well enough to post here, so the issue is moot - at any rate, I do not like the film for a few posters or the accuracy of the Hungarian, so that issue is moot too.
I don’t care whether a guy sat at a PC clicking a mouse around a few automated tools or not, just like I didn’t care when landscapes were modified via computer in Zodiac to present something more authentic to the time and place. If the script were punched up with AI or somehow Corbet were revealed to be a cyborg, we would be having a far different conversation. Technology has been used to assist the less creative and more practical areas of filmmaking for a long time - those things still need to be perceived, sketched out, and properly presented by actual artists.
I don’t care whether a guy sat at a PC clicking a mouse around a few automated tools or not, just like I didn’t care when landscapes were modified via computer in Zodiac to present something more authentic to the time and place. If the script were punched up with AI or somehow Corbet were revealed to be a cyborg, we would be having a far different conversation. Technology has been used to assist the less creative and more practical areas of filmmaking for a long time - those things still need to be perceived, sketched out, and properly presented by actual artists.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
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Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
For now, sure. In your experience, does technology stay in its ascribed lane often?
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
I’m going to agree with mfunk here. AI is like any other tool. It can be misused or used properly depending on the person. It sounds like Corbet used it fairly reasonably (and in a far less impactful way than what von Trier has been doing for years now) rather than poorly.
- mfunk9786
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Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
Let’s punish the egregious cases and forgive the reasonable ones, then. This seems like the latter to me, but I know that mileage may vary. Would be wild to me if this became known as an “AI movie” while that awful looking Captain America film comes out with all of its ridiculous shortcuts (is it AI to use pre-created texture shaders to make Hulk look the canonically correct kind of rubbery, say?) and no real outrage or comment because it isn’t an awards contender. Soon movies will all be AI if we attack the people who are being thoughtful about making good movies.domino harvey wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 3:52 pmFor now, sure. In your experience, does technology stay in its ascribed lane often?
- hearthesilence
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Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
I really hope I'm wrong about this, but I think it's inevitable AI will proliferate, and it's only going to get worse given that AI will only grow more sophisticated given how it's designed. I absolutely support efforts to deal with its impact on labor now - it's the kind of foresight I wish civilization had practiced with other massive problems that were on the horizon like global warming and plastic pollution - but I remain pessimistic that such efforts will only stall an unfortunate outcome that will be here within 10 or 15 years, and it wouldn't surprise me if it's sooner.
- mfunk9786
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Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
I work for a tech-adjacent company that touts using AI in its collation of data. The previous company I worked for called it “machine learning,” but it was the same basic operation. When you’ve seen behind the curtain, it becomes quickly apparent that “AI” is a marketing term above all else.
Yes, generative AI tools and products of all kinds of variety and moral grayness have been created and more are going to follow, but the concept of using predictive algorithms in computing has been around for decades in some form. The worst thing tech companies could’ve done for their own reputations was to evoke such unfavorable comparisons by assuming that people would welcome these tools taking over original creative thought and artistic work, both of which are an invaluable part of humanity. I would still argue, though, that regardless of whether it’s ad speak or not, an AI tool meant to alter voiceover in a film after thoughtful consultation with Hungarian language experts is a lot different than using ChatGPT to outline a third act. Many AI tools amount to something photoshop-adjacent, which is no different than a lot of what CGI has been up until now. If you’ve had the idea, gone to the Herculean effort to shoot it, and then need to delete power lines from a period picture, nobody is suggesting that you’ve stepped on a third rail by doing so. This seems quite similar to that, at least to me.
Considering the last line of this film, this is at least a deliciously ironic conversation.
Yes, generative AI tools and products of all kinds of variety and moral grayness have been created and more are going to follow, but the concept of using predictive algorithms in computing has been around for decades in some form. The worst thing tech companies could’ve done for their own reputations was to evoke such unfavorable comparisons by assuming that people would welcome these tools taking over original creative thought and artistic work, both of which are an invaluable part of humanity. I would still argue, though, that regardless of whether it’s ad speak or not, an AI tool meant to alter voiceover in a film after thoughtful consultation with Hungarian language experts is a lot different than using ChatGPT to outline a third act. Many AI tools amount to something photoshop-adjacent, which is no different than a lot of what CGI has been up until now. If you’ve had the idea, gone to the Herculean effort to shoot it, and then need to delete power lines from a period picture, nobody is suggesting that you’ve stepped on a third rail by doing so. This seems quite similar to that, at least to me.
Considering the last line of this film, this is at least a deliciously ironic conversation.
- DeprongMori
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Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
Honestly, one thing I wish they had done with post-production photo processing in the film was to remove the incredibly prominent jet contrails from the lengthy shot of the 1947 bus against a “1947” sky in the beginning of the film. I’m not one who looks for these things, but I found it incredibly distracting.
Other than that I loved the film.
Other than that I loved the film.
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- Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2024 8:44 pm
Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
I haven't seen the film yet, but prop-driven aircraft, including post-WW2 commercial passenger transport like DC-4s, routinely left vapor trails at the right altitude and in the appropriate atmospheric conditions, so it's not as anachronistic as it might seem. B-17s and other remnants of the war were also being flown all over the country at the time, to be scrapped or to be utilized for other purposes, and there are many famous pics of those planes leaving contrails.DeprongMori wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 1:37 amHonestly, one thing I wish they had done with post-production photo processing in the film was to remove the incredibly prominent jet contrails from the lengthy shot of the 1947 bus against a “1947” sky in the beginning of the film. I’m not one who looks for these things, but I found it incredibly distracting.
But of course, we all know the truth about contrails, where they come from and why, and the fact that Corbet included them so prominently is only more evidence that blah blah blah
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
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Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
I should be clear that my tirade above was about the use of Midjourney to create models of buildings and then hire an artist to create them based on the computer return. This is just lazy and is justly getting railed against. Shifting some tones in a foreign language to be more accurate is not much different than bringing in someone to do ADR or dub, but unfortunately I've already seen a lot of people confusing the issue and thinking Brody's whole performance is AI assisted. All this to say, I think the immediate backlash against the little movie that could shows how divisive AI is for the industry. Now, whether the industry recognizes that the impacts of AI were not materially different in most regards to pre-existing technological use cases and it effects nothing or the Academy recoils in retribution and the film goes home empty-handed, I don't know. I'm still excited to see this one, though (I'm currently recovering from COVID, and as much as inappropriately giggling patrons of the Music Box probably deserve to get sick, I will humbly not act as the hand of God)
- The Curious Sofa
- Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:18 am
Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
I haven't seen the film yet, as it hasn't been released where I live, but the reviews I've read all agree that this is a $10 million film that looks like it cost $100 million. CGI artists are expensive and according to Corbet, they used AI to achieve an epic vision on a relatively small budget. The same arguments were made for using digital over celluloid, but there are a lot of small films that I love that wouldn't exist if it wasn't for this technology.
And I don't take the AI threat lightly, I worked in CG animation for 25 years and my friends in that industry are panicking. Ionically now I work as a translator and let's see how long I'll last there, but at least I'm specialized in a subject AI can't entirely handle yet. And of course, every professional translator now uses AI for a first draft to speed up the process.
And I don't take the AI threat lightly, I worked in CG animation for 25 years and my friends in that industry are panicking. Ionically now I work as a translator and let's see how long I'll last there, but at least I'm specialized in a subject AI can't entirely handle yet. And of course, every professional translator now uses AI for a first draft to speed up the process.
Last edited by The Curious Sofa on Tue Jan 21, 2025 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
- DeprongMori
- Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:59 am
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Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
Thanks for that info. I’ll be re-watching the film at some point, and now it won’t distract me so much.Maladroit Aggregator wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 12:51 pmI haven't seen the film yet, but prop-driven aircraft, including post-WW2 commercial passenger transport like DC-4s, routinely left vapor trails at the right altitude and in the appropriate atmospheric conditions, so it's not as anachronistic as it might seem. B-17s and other remnants of the war were also being flown all over the country at the time, to be scrapped or to be utilized for other purposes, and there are many famous pics of those planes leaving contrails.
- mfunk9786
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Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
Meant nothing personal whatsoever, Domino, nor did I think you were attacking this film. Hope you feel better soon, COVID is a nightmare - sometimes just a blip, sometimes months of feeling lousy. Hope this one's the former.domino harvey wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 1:41 pmI should be clear that my tirade above was about the use of Midjourney to create models of buildings and then hire an artist to create them based on the computer return. This is just lazy and is justly getting railed against. Shifting some tones in a foreign language to be more accurate is not much different than bringing in someone to do ADR or dub, but unfortunately I've already seen a lot of people confusing the issue and thinking Brody's whole performance is AI assisted. All this to say, I think the immediate backlash against the little movie that could shows how divisive AI is for the industry. Now, whether the industry recognizes that the impacts of AI were not materially different in most regards to pre-existing technological use cases and it effects nothing or the Academy recoils in retribution and the film goes home empty-handed, I don't know. I'm still excited to see this one, though (I'm currently recovering from COVID, and as much as inappropriately giggling patrons of the Music Box probably deserve to get sick, I will humbly not act as the hand of God)
- mfunk9786
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Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
Corbet responds to AI accusations
re: the buildings during the epilogue:Brady Corbet wrote:Adrien and Felicity’s performances are completely their own. They worked for months with dialect coach Tanera Marshall to perfect their accents. Innovative Respeecher technology was used in Hungarian language dialogue editing only, specifically to refine certain vowels and letters for accuracy. No English language was changed. This was a manual process, done by our sound team and Respeecher in post-production. The aim was to preserve the authenticity of Adrien and Felicity’s performances in another language, not to replace or alter them and done with the utmost respect for the craft.
Even if I'd detested this film, I can't imagine being too worked up about any of this.Brady Corbet wrote:Judy Becker and her team did not use AI to create or render any of the buildings. All images were hand-drawn by artists. To clarify, in the memorial video featured in the background of a shot, our editorial team created pictures intentionally designed to look like poor digital renderings circa 1980.
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
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Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
More importantly: "We understand that the use of AI on The Brutalist didn’t eliminate jobs, rather created them."
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
All good! It’s been fairly mild so far, thankfully.
And from what I’ve seen online, a lot of the discourse around this (AI, not my Covid) is coming from disingenuous Chalamet fans who see this as a way to tarnish Brody and his film and boost their idol’s chances for Best Actor, so probably worth keeping in mind that the internet is still a mistake
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- Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:44 pm
Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
Agreed. I admired the film far more than I enjoyed it, despite finding much of it enthralling. To climax with that dinner-table accusation seemed, sorry, rather silly and certainly anachronistic. And the epilogue felt very unearned -- though it would've worked, I think, had it been seeded with even a single scene.hearthesilence wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2025 11:11 pmI think the film has more merit than Brody would suggest, but I don't think he's wrong either. It's a great production, the cast is wonderful, but unfortunately it left me feeling a bit empty. I actually did not like the last act, and I agree with Brody's frustration about the epilogue and the unfulfilled potential it suggests.
I can't help but feel like the smarter half of the industry basically is applauding the ambitions of this film (which is incredibly impressive! more like this, please!) more than the film itself. Also, one nit-pick: you're shooting in VistaVision yet you're gonna keep doing shaky, hand-held close-ups? What?!
- MichaelB
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Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
I have absolutely no problem with the use of AI to refine the Hungarian accents. The actors agreed, and the process was supervised by a native Hungarian speaker (who was also the film's overall editor, so knew the material inside out), so to me it's no different from any other post-production technique aimed at refining the soundtrack.
Compare and contrast with, say, Andrzej Wajda's The Conductor, with its laughable switches back and forth between John Gielgud's own voice (with not even the faintest trace of the Polish accent that his character would surely have had, however long he'd lived abroad) and an obviously totally different voice crudely overdubbed whenever he's speaking Polish. Granted, Wajda didn't have access to the same kind of technology, but would I have minded had he been able to use it to get around what I found to be an almost ruinous regular distraction? Of course not.
(I'm not actually sure how Wajda could have done it better back in 1980 - presumably Gielgud didn't feel up to speaking fluent-sounding phonetic Polish, which is entirely understandable, but you can't revoice the entire performance of one of the most distinctive voices in the entire acting profession by getting someone bilingual to take over!)
Compare and contrast with, say, Andrzej Wajda's The Conductor, with its laughable switches back and forth between John Gielgud's own voice (with not even the faintest trace of the Polish accent that his character would surely have had, however long he'd lived abroad) and an obviously totally different voice crudely overdubbed whenever he's speaking Polish. Granted, Wajda didn't have access to the same kind of technology, but would I have minded had he been able to use it to get around what I found to be an almost ruinous regular distraction? Of course not.
(I'm not actually sure how Wajda could have done it better back in 1980 - presumably Gielgud didn't feel up to speaking fluent-sounding phonetic Polish, which is entirely understandable, but you can't revoice the entire performance of one of the most distinctive voices in the entire acting profession by getting someone bilingual to take over!)
- ellipsis7
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- aox
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Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
Preface and disclosure: I love The Guardian and have not seen The Brutalist, though it might be my most anticipated movie in years.ellipsis7 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 4:01 am
Backlash builds: why the architecture world hates The Brutalist
I read that article today, and I have to say I can't believe someone spent the time writing that.
- Brian C
- I hate to be That Pedantic Guy but...
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Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
Reading that, I imagine myself transported back to 1938, reading an aggrieved, po-faced explication of how historically preposterous the depiction of the Norman-Saxon rivalry is in The Adventures of Robin Hood.
- soundchaser
- Leave Her to Beaver
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Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
The author seems to labor under the misapprehension that “based on” = “a biopic.”
- Brian C
- I hate to be That Pedantic Guy but...
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:58 am
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Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
Even “based on” seems like an oversell … seems like a more precise description would be “inspired by, to some degree.”
- Lowry_Sam
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Re: The Brutalist (Brady Corbet, 2024)
I saw that this was initially screened in 70mm in LA & NY in December. Does anyone know if there are still any screenings in CA (and SF bay area in particular) or is there only 2 70mm prints that are now opening international screenings (from the 70mm webpage)? I think 70mm would be preferable to Imax.