Jacques Rivette

[Barmy]

I saw Out One: Spectre tonight. As a confirmed Rivettephile, I liked it. Still, I feel that it is one of his least interesting films (I've seen all but Merry Go Round). In particular, only Leaud is particularly effective with this type of improv.

Edited to add: I saw it a second time over the weekend and enjoyed it much more the second time.

Here's an old NYTimes review that I largely agree with.

[tavernier]

There's an article by Dennis Lim in this weekend's NY Times Arts & Leisure section about the elusive 13-hour Out One: Noli Me Tangere, with the news that it's scheduled to be shown at the Museum of Moving Image's Rivette retro in November. =P~

[David Ehrenstein]

Here's the link

[sevenarts]

can anyone comment on the rivette films available in R1 (both the films and the DVDs)?

Joan the Maid
Story of Marie & Julien
Va Savoir (Who Knows)
Secret Defense

[backstreetsbackalright]

I'm never the one to ask for matters of transfer quality, etc., but I found the Joan The Maid discs quite watchable. Really impressive movie too!

[Michael Kerpan]

can anyone comment on the rivette films available in R1 (both the films and the DVDs)?

Joan the Maid
Story of Marie & Julien
Va Savoir (Who Knows)
Secret Defense

The Facets DVD contains a version of "Joan" which is missing around one-third of the film -- and this butchered version was never approved by Rivette. It is far less coherent than the real version.

The "Va Savoir" DVD is fine (except for a bit of unsubbed Italian dialog right at the start).

"Secret Defense" is passable -- but is not an anamorphic (if this matters to you).

Haven't seen the US DVD of "Marie and Julien" -- the unsubbed French DVD is gorgeous, however.

[backstreetsbackalright]

The Facets DVD contains a version of "Joan" which is missing around one-third of the film -- and this butchered version was never approved by Rivette. It is far less coherent than the real version.

Snap! Did not know that. How do I allow myself to be so oblivious to these things?!? Would love to see the full cut sometime.

[Michael Kerpan]

There used to be an unsubbed French video of Joan (which may also have been available in Quebec).

I got a copy -- but its video signal is quite weak (making this painfiul to watch). Not sure what happened (is demagnetization during transit possible).

[benm]

it will also screen at the vancouver international film festival

go vancouver!

[ptmd]

For those in New York, it will be showing as part of the American Museum of the Moving Image's complete Rivette retrospective in November.

[fred]

Not to quibble, but this almost certainly won't be complete. According to their website, it will be: "The most extensive retrospective to date of the French New Wave master, including the first American screening of the legendary 13-hour film Out One: Noli mi Tangere." Most extensive (really? in the whole world? or just New York?) isn't quite the same as complete. Neither the recent London retro nor the slightly earlier one in Vienna were complete. I would be really surprised if this included all of Renoir le patron or the long versions of L'Amour par terre or Va savoir among others. I would love to be wrong.

[jguitar]

go vancouver!

A further quibble--this is not actually part of the film festival (which begins on September 28). Instead, it's happening at the new groovy film center that is under the auspices of the VIFF society.

But yes, go Vancouver! I bought my tickets within seconds of learning about this.

[Gropius]

A question to any of the few who actually have seen Out 1: did those who failed to make it the London screening miss out on a life-changing opportunity? I wasn't paying much attention to the NFT listings at the time, and wouldn't have got down there anyway, but I do feel slightly like someone who has let fortune's forelock slip away from his/her grasp, since it will probably never be screened in Britain again in the next thirty years.

I'm interested in Rivette (probably more than Truffaut but less than Godard), but Out 1 does sound like its legendary status is chiefly based on its length. Also, wasn't it originally intended for television? Why has it never been shown in that medium? As ultra-long films go, how does it compare to the also unseen Satantango (completely different style, I know - Rivette's breeziness probably makes things move more quickly than Tarr)?

On the second point, I have read so-called celluloid purists (NYC dwellers, naturally) argue that Satantango shouldn't be released on DVD, since it will lower the value of the film as an elusive 'event' for only true cine-pilgrims (unlike the slobs who sit at home with their paltry televisions and even dare to pause the disc to relieve their bladders). This strikes me as elitist nonsense, reflecting an unhealthy, almost mystical belief in cinema as transcendence for the faithful few, with an apparent implication that this transcendence is to be reached through length. Length does not equal profundity, and one will be no more enlightened at the end of 13 hours than 90 minutes, nor will St Peter be there to greet you at the cinema exit.

[jguitar]

Length does not equal profundity, and one will be no more enlightened at the end of 13 hours than 90 minutes, nor will St Peter be there to greet you at the cinema exit.

I guess I'll be selling my tickets, then.

[Barmy]

I don't care whether Satantango is released on DVD, but there is no way in hell I would ever watch it on the tube. The hypnotic filmic experience is a large part of the appeal of the film. If I am sitting on my couch in front of the inevitably watered-down experience known as a television, I'm not going to sit there for 7.5 hours watching Satantango. I'd rather watch 2 Rivettes or 4 Fassbinders. Or, even better, 15 Stephen Colberts.

Out 1 is a different story. Having seen Out 1: Spectre, I feel confident that it could be watched on television over a period of days or weeks in smaller chunks. Anyway, kudos to MMI for bringing this to New York--it is one of the few interesting or unique film series they have done in the last few years.

[Gropius]

I don't care whether Satantango is released on DVD, but there is no way in hell I would ever watch it on the tube. The hypnotic filmic experience is a large part of the appeal of the film. If I am sitting on my couch in front of the inevitably watered-down experience known as a television, I'm not going to sit there for 7.5 hours watching Satantango. I'd rather watch 2 Rivettes or 4 Fassbinders. Or, even better, 15 Stephen Colberts.

Well, I can see your point to a degree (although I don't think televisual viewing is inevitably watered-down: e.g. a good DVD can be better than a film print in poor condition), but New York seems to be one of the few cities where Satantango is screened in cinemas with any sort of frequency (i.e. more than once a decade). Only about 0.13% of the world's population lives in New York. As far as I know, Out 1 has not been screened as one 13-hour block (maybe in 1971?), but is broken up into at least two. I doubt Rivette is one to care much about how people watch his films.

Length is an interesting topic, though: apparently some video artist recently slowed down (or 'time-stretched') Hitchcock's Psycho to last 24 hours. Wonder if anyone stayed up for the whole thing. The same trick was also tried a few years ago with Beethoven's Ninth Symphony.

[tavernier]

I'm not going to sit there for 7.5 hours watching Satantango. I'd rather watch 2 Rivettes or 4 Fassbinders. Or, even better, 15 Stephen Colberts.

You, sir, are on notice!

[jguitar]

Length is an interesting topic, though: apparently some video artist recently slowed down (or 'time-stretched') Hitchcock's Psycho to last 24 hours. Wonder if anyone stayed up for the whole thing.

That's Douglas Gordon's work. By no means have I sat through the entire thing, but I did watch a couple of good chunks of it when it was in Vancouver several years ago. It was a really hypnotic work. Seeing those familiar images moving at such a dream pace was quite powerful. I don't know that I'd want to watch it for 24 hours, though.

Gordon's done a lot of interesting work with film. At the same show in Vancouver, he had a piece that consisted of three screens placed side by side, each screening Maté's D.O.A., but not synced up. The result was a cacophony of images and sounds. One curious effect was that the slamming of doors emerged as a frequent visual motif in the film, something I hadn't noticed before. Another piece of his consists of The Exorcist and the Song of Bernadette screening simultaneously on the same screen. An odd effect.

[Lino]

Another piece of his consists of The Exorcist and the Song of Bernadette screening simultaneously on the same screen. An odd effect.

I've actually seen that as a video installation on a Museum. I sat there for a few minutes to see what I could make of it and after a while, I started having headaches. I guess it was all that profane/sacred immagery working that was causing my mind to split open! I don't know what he was after but it sure had an effect on me.

[orlik]

I don't know if the full-length version of Out 1 could change your life, but it may well change your perception of what cinema is capable of. Then again, you may hate it. Personally, I'm convinced it's one of the greatest films I've ever seen, if not the greatest. Along with Celine and Julie Go Boating, it's the summation of the Nouvelle Vague and everything that made it great. It's completely naturalistic and yet completely hallucinatory. It's beautiful, funny and inexplicably terrifying. It's a study of the failure of collective action, of quests, of language, of various kinds of performance, of acting as a form of psychic self-purgation, and so many other pretentious and wonderful things. It's frustrating and empowering. It provokes with the suggestion of meaning and then numbs with the absence of meaning. It may make you feel like you're going insane or that you're no longer watching a movie but are an initiate into an alternative reality. It's - dare I say - not long enough...

BTW, the film was, as I believe, originally commissioned for French TV, but was then rejected. However, Rivette has since said that the film should only be seen on the big screen, as it has a 'monumental' quality that would be lost on TV. Maybe he's right, and maybe, on TV, the film would look more like a grossly extended soap omnibus or even - horror of horrors - like reality TV. Seeing it in a very concentrated manner on the big screen (actually, the screening at the NFT was extended over 3 days and 8 separate episodes, but that's still fairly concentrated) emphasises its uniqueness and makes it more overwhelming. Then again, I've only seen Celine and Julie on TV and it's still one of my favourite films.

It may be only a deranged fantasy, but I feel Out 1 is odd enough for someone to consider bringing out a DVD set. After all, it's appeared on Italian TV no less than 3 times.

[Gropius]

Ah, rub it in. Maybe it will turn up again for a 2028 Rivette centenary. Although I'd probably end up missing that one as well.

[orlik]

Sorry, I can't help going into raptures about Out 1 - it's my favourite film. It's like Mark Kermode and The Exorcist, though hopefully with a worthier object. As I say, I wouldn't rule out a DVD release for Out 1, which I'm as desperate for as anyone.

[jguitar]

I caught the first four episodes of Out 1 in Vancouver yesterday. The last four are today. I won't say much about it now other than to report on some of the more mundane details: there were between 20 and 25 people there (22 at the beginning according to the theatre manager's account, but some came in later and some left). The theatre manager also noted that the film is supposed to run at 25fps, but their projector can only do 24fps, so the film would run about a half an hour longer overall--"so you're getting more for your money," he quipped.

The most surprising thing is the fact that the subtitles are flashed on-screen "live"; they're using the BFI's subtitles, which are on a computer program. There are three people with a copy of the film's dialog, and they flash the subtitles at the "appropriate" moment, according to their judgment, on a small screen just below the screen proper. This is far from perfect--there are long moments of untranslated dialog, other moments when subtitles hover below the film waiting for their time to come, and still other moments when circle around the dialog, as it were, trying to find the right spot. Oh, and still other moments when they play catch up with missed bits of dialog and flash several sequences of subtitles in about a second. I don't mean any of this as a critique--it seems an impossible task, especially considering that the folks doing the subtitles have never seen the film before! And it's certainly good enough to get what's going on, although if you have any French, it would be a huge help. For those of you seeing it next week at VIFF, you may get a smoother experience with the subtitles.

For myself, I was delighted to be able to watch a film I thought I would never see, and to be part of the first North American audience to ever see it! If folks on this forum want a fuller account of the film itself (minus spoilers--and there are some) I'd be happy to do my best. This would be Monday or Tuesday though.

I wonder if anyone else on this forum saw this yesterday as well? I was the tall, bookish guy (which describes half the audience) with a green sweater sitting near the front on the right.

[Michael Kerpan]

I just started watching "Out 1" -- with Italian subs.... ;~}

I thought the first Episode was a hoot. some parts seem a bit overly long -- but I wasn't expecting this too be as funny as it seemed (to me, at least).

[franco]

I wonder if anyone else on this forum saw this yesterday as well? I was the tall, bookish guy (which describes half the audience) with a green sweater sitting near the front on the right.

Ah, if you were indeed the man on the right edge of the third row, then I would be the theatre volunteer who sneaked in (to the second row) after the show started and decided after 20 minutes to leave and do his statistics homework instead.

Guess I'll see you later today!

Funny thing was that there was this young man with numerous signs of unease - palpably because he brought a camcorder along. Some time after the second show started, he dashed out of the theatre - with the camcorder. Guess he ran out of batteries.