Criterion and UHD

[tenia]

I'd argue the question shouldn't be between adding a new main-feature-less BD vs recycling the older BD, but adding the extras on the UHD and doing UHD-only releases instead of not-really-DF ones.

In which case I do think it'd be cheaper for Criterion to have everything including on the UHD disc rather than turning a UHD-only release into a DF just for this. Several labels are choosing UHD-only releases instead of going their route (which is rather the US studios route). The only financial nuance I might see is when it requires to use a UHD-100 instead of a UHD-66 (though actually, with so many crap encodes already, they might just be able to compress even more the movie and the encode will still be crap anyway so would there be a visible difference ?), but they have several cases of UHD-100 with space left anyway (Time Bandits has 13.5 Gb left, Dreams has 11, Don't Look Now 13.5, etc). And they have cases like Branded to Kill, which has 5-6 Gb left and not much extra features.

Has there been a two-disc blu-ray release with the first dedicated to the main feature alone? If Criterion ever decides to upgrade it with a newly restored UHD then it would have served as a litmus test for the future-proof and for-extras theories.

I found those : Heaven's Gate, Seven Samurai, Brazil, A Brighter Summer Day, Short Cuts, Barry Lyndon and The Irishman.

[Matt]

Given their longtime problems with compression and trying to pack too much on a disc, I’d prefer to keep the extras off the UHD. The price will not go down, the package will stay the same size, so this all feels like inventing something to get upset about.

[hearthesilence]

Given their longtime problems with compression and trying to pack too much on a disc, I’d prefer to keep the extras off the UHD.

Same here. The ONLY complaint I have is that I wish they would put the commentaries on the UHD, just so I can watch the 4K version as I'm listening to the commentary. I'd like to at least enjoy the visuals in full resolution. I've had this problem with non-Criterion releases where a Blu-ray/DVD two-for will have the commentary on the DVD but NOT the Blu-ray, and it's kind of annoying that you need to put on a shitty DVD on a 4K screen in order to have access to the commentary. But otherwise, I'm totally fine with the extras being on a separate standard Blu-ray disc that happens to have another copy of the feature on there too. (At least that's how I think of it.)

[tenia]

Given their longtime problems with compression and trying to pack too much on a disc, I’d prefer to keep the extras off the UHD.

What I'm saying is that it's already bad enough that it's likely not to make a visible difference anyway, and in any case, plenty of their releases don't have filled discs to begin with.
And then again : maybe the issue isn't this but that they should get their stuff together regarding encodes, because plenty of labels are showing releases after releases that you can have both a good encode and extras on the UHD.

The price will not go down, the package will stay the same size, so this all feels like inventing something to get upset about.

Theoretically, switching from DF to UHD-only should be cheaper... at least to someone. Either prices would be the same and Criterion's finances would be better, which might have been good for their staff, or it'd go down while maintaining margins, which would be better for consumers (and possibly Criterion too at some point, since consumers might be incented in buying 1 addition title every, say, 4 purchases thanks to the money saved).

Not that I'm "upset" about it though, it just feels... cheap/lazy.

[dwk]

Given their longtime problems with compression and trying to pack too much on a disc, I’d prefer to keep the extras off the UHD.

Same here. The ONLY complaint I have is that I wish they would put the commentaries on the UHD, just so I can watch the 4K version as I'm listening to the commentary. I'd like to at least enjoy the visuals in full resolution. I've had this problem with non-Criterion releases where a Blu-ray/DVD two-for will have the commentary on the DVD but NOT the Blu-ray, and it's kind of annoying that you need to put on a shitty DVD on a 4K screen in order to have access to the commentary. But otherwise, I'm totally fine with the extras being on a separate standard Blu-ray disc that happens to have another copy of the feature on there too. (At least that's how I think of it.)

Criterion does put the commentaries on the UHD disc.

[hearthesilence]

Criterion does put the commentaries on the UHD disc.

Happily stand corrected, I think I mixed Criterion's up with other UHD/BD combos that do that.

[macaca]

It's more costly than the alternative, multiplied by however large the print run is. Also, that's not how coasters work

It's not multiplied. It's a one time cost (and a small one). The expense of the discs are the same.

If you already know all these answers why are you asking these questions?

Kind of weird giving people a coaster so they can just watch the extras. Either just make it the extras or don't bother, since like people have pointed out, no one will watch an old looking blu-ray when they have a brand new 4K.

You want them to include a Blu-ray that is exactly the same as the one they already include, just without the movie on it because that’s too weird for you otherwise. Please be serious.

And please can we not relitigate Dual Format releases? We’ve already had 28 pages of the “coasters” argument with Criterion’s DVD+BD releases in which you made these same complaints and arguments!

Many apologies, Mr. Criterion, I'll definitely only bring up things you find relevant and agree with from now on.
As for me "asking questions", no questions were asked or answered. That sentence literally has no questions.

Anyway, I don't care to get into a back & forth. You have your opinion, and I have mine.
Besides, I'm off to go listen to the newly remastered Revolver lp from the new Beatles box set.
It came with a cd so I can watch the remastering process, and they even threw the old 2009 remaster on there as a bonus.
It doesn't sound as good, but who cares!? I've got the vinyl! I'll just avoid listening to it in the car.

P.S Thanks for looking into my past posts from decade ago, I actually feel special!

[denti alligator]

After the Five Easy Pieces announce today (I had just bought the Blu-ray), I would be interested in speculating on the most likely Blu-ray titles to get a UHD upgrade, so that I don't do this again. If we remove all titles that are OOP and all that don't have a 4k remaster, as well as all titles released since the adoption of the format, there couldn't be more than a couple hundred, or? The next step would be to put them in approximate order of approximate sales/popularity.

[Mr.DarjeelingLimited]

After the Five Easy Pieces announce today (I had just bought the Blu-ray), I would be interested in speculating on the most likely Blu-ray titles to get a UHD upgrade, so that I don't do this again. If we remove all titles that are OOP and all that don't have a 4k remaster, as well as all titles released since the adoption of the format, there couldn't be more than a couple hundred, or? The next step would be to put them in approximate order of approximate sales/popularity.

Gold Rush had a restoration done recently so I assume that’s in the pipeline

[FrauBlucher]

I would think the Powell and Pressburgers are prime for your upgrades

[denti alligator]

Bring it on! I'm mainly looking for a "don't buy the Blu-ray yet"-list. Or maybe, alternately, a "never getting better than this"-list. I would put P&P in the first.

[therewillbeblus]

I would think the Powell and Pressburgers are prime for your upgrades

My number one wish has been Black Narcissus for a while. I hope The Red Shoes sold well enough

[andyli]

After the Five Easy Pieces announce today (I had just bought the Blu-ray), I would be interested in speculating on the most likely Blu-ray titles to get a UHD upgrade, so that I don't do this again. If we remove all titles that are OOP and all that don't have a 4k remaster, as well as all titles released since the adoption of the format, there couldn't be more than a couple hundred, or? The next step would be to put them in approximate order of approximate sales/popularity.

This is also something on my mind. I'll nominate a few titles from the first 1000 spine numbers that are likely to get upgraded with the same 4k remaster.

Spoiler

Amarcord (and other Fellini titles)
The Silence of the Lambs
Brief Encounter
Do the Right Thiing
The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (and other P&P titles ready for 4K)
Straw Dogs
Ali: Fear Eats the Soul (and other Fassbinder titles ready for 4K)
Short Cuts
My Own Private Idaho
Au hasard Balthazar
Masculin feminin
Ace in the Hole
Easy Rider
On the Waterfront
Medium Cool
Seconds
Investigation of a Citizen Above Suspicion
Tess (and Macbeth)
Eraserhead
The Innocents
Safe
Tootsie
The American Friend (and other Wenders titles)
The Graduate
The Manchurian Candidate
A Brighter Summer Day
Only Angels Have Wings
Dr. Strangelove
A Touch of Zen (and Dragon Inn)
Being There
Blow-Up
Rumble Fish
Tom Jones
An Actor's Revenge
Women in Love
Midnight Cowboy
sex, lies and videotape
Death in Venice
1984
Klute

[jt938]

Blood Simple already has a 4k.

[andyli]

Blood Simple already has a 4k.

Right! I was a bit mixed up, expecting Studio Canal to issue their own edition any day now.

[nitin]

Not sure existing 4k restorations used for prior blu rays are any meaningful indicator as they have mostly created new 4k masters (or used newer 4k restorations) when doing UHDS

New 4k restorations since the original blu release might be a more likely indicator

[andyli]

I was thinking about the upgrading mode for titles like Five Easy Pieces in the original post. Then again even for this kind of upgrade there might still be work (like new HDR pass, further clean-up jobs, or even entirely new scan) done to the earlier restoration.

Titles with newer restoration than the Blu-ray, for which Charade from today's slate is a prime example, are indeed more likely to get released and more incentive is offered for the upgrade.

[nitin]

Five Easy Pieces is a newer 4k restoration from Sony (although its possible Sony used their previous 4k scan master files as a starting point for the newer restoration, they have occasionally done that in the past for various reasons)

[ChunkyLover]

Five Easy Pieces is a newer 4k restoration from Sony (although its possible Sony used their previous 4k scan master files as a starting point for the newer restoration, they have occasionally done that in the past for various reasons)

I suspect it will be the same basic scan as the original Criterion BD. The reason being it was the only other film in the BBS box, besides Easy Rider, that was scanned on a more competent scanner (Northlight) rather than a Spirit "4K" Datacine (the Easy Rider 4K uses the same scan as the Sony/Criterion BD).

[adamfeldman]

After the Five Easy Pieces announce today (I had just bought the Blu-ray), I would be interested in speculating on the most likely Blu-ray titles to get a UHD upgrade, so that I don't do this again. If we remove all titles that are OOP and all that don't have a 4k remaster, as well as all titles released since the adoption of the format, there couldn't be more than a couple hundred, or? The next step would be to put them in approximate order of approximate sales/popularity.

There are definitely correlations in popularity (I've found that higher Letterboxd view count = more likely to get upgraded), critical acclaim (say, if it's part of the canon of world art cinema), and the age of the Blu-ray release (Blus released in 2011 or earlier have been much more likely to get an upgrade, almost nothing from 2019 or later has been upgraded).

For instance, I pulled the Criterion Blu releases or upgrades from 2008-2011, and looked at the top 50 by Letterboxd view count. 32 of these have already gotten 4k upgrades from Criterion or another US label.

Here are the 18 titles in that set that have not yet been upgraded.

Spoiler

Modern Times
House
The Thin Red Line
M
The Great Dictator
Solaris
Salo
Harakiri
Easy Rider (Sony Pictures UK released in 4k)
Vivre sa vie
Double Life of Veronique (Curzon released in 4k internationally)
Close-up
Naked
Fish Tank
The Battle of Algiers
Repulsion
Stagecoach
Hunger

For some of these — Solaris and Stagecoach come to mind — there are materials questions that make it unlikely we'll ever see them in 4k. Others — like the Chaplins — seem to be shoo-ins, but they could be years away for all we know.