339 Yi Yi

[kinjitsu]

Listening to Taiwanese actors speaking english is not the easiest thing in the world, especially if english is not your first language.

Good point. I thought Issey Ogata's (Tony Takitani) English was fine, however, I had to pay much closer attention to Nianzhen Wu in order to understand him. A minor point, to be sure, but there are times when subtitles in multi-language films seem necessary, especially here. Closed-captioning is another story entirely.

I just want to add that I think the picture looks fantastic on this one. Better than the Starmax, which is too washed-out in comparison. I didn't feel it was too dark at all. Marvelous image!

And the film! So incredible. I need to watch it a third, fourth, fifth time to begin formulating all my thoughts. This is an incredibly rich work of art.

Indeed, an incredible film, and one that certainly invites repeated viewing, in fact, allowing some breathing space, I'm looking forward to watching it again. The image quality is extraordinarily brilliant, and (attn: MK), in spite of what those screencaps might lead us to believe, it's not the least bit dark.

[zedz]

And the film! So incredible. I need to watch it a third, fourth, fifth time to begin formulating all my thoughts. This is an incredibly rich work of art.

Indeed, an incredible film, and one that certainly invites repeated viewing, in fact, allowing some breathing space, I'm looking forward to watching it again.

Absolutely! Yang's best films are specifically constructed to yield more and more on subsequent viewings: it's almost impossible to catch all of the nuances on a first pass, and information revealed late in the film will often throw earlier events into a different light, in a far more rich and realistic way than simple narrative 'twists'. They're some of the most elegantly constructed narratives in cinema.

[Michael Kerpan]

Glad to hear good reports. I look forward to being able to discard our Fox-Lorber abomination.

[King of Kong]

And the film! So incredible. I need to watch it a third, fourth, fifth time to begin formulating all my thoughts. This is an incredibly rich work of art.

Indeed, an incredible film, and one that certainly invites repeated viewing, in fact, allowing some breathing space, I'm looking forward to watching it again.

Absolutely! Yang's best films are specifically constructed to yield more and more on subsequent viewings: it's almost impossible to catch all of the nuances on a first pass, and information revealed late in the film will often throw earlier events into a different light, in a far more rich and realistic way than simple narrative 'twists'. They're some of the most elegantly constructed narratives in cinema.

My thoughts exactly - that's why I reserve judgment on Yi Yi until I see it at least another once. Not to say that I didn't love it first time around, I just think I may have missed some details.

[scalesojustice]

I got a chance to watch this film over the weekend and i must say that i was impressed with how well everything worked. i think now, 6 years later, there are a slew of "indie" movies that try to work the family angle with quirks and cutesy kids, but i never once got any hint of pretense from any of the characters - specifically N.J. and Yang-Yang, as i see them as the central characters, whose honesty drives the film.

i think any other director would have built up the sentimentality, but Yang keeps us at arm's length and lets the scene play. can you imagine how pretentious Yang-Yang's final Soliloquy might have been. yet, in yang's hands it was honest and powerful.

On a side note, this has to be one of my favorite covers.

[Michael Kerpan]

An article (in "Asia Pacific Arts" from UCLA) in which Criterion producer Curtis Tsui discusses the acquisition and release of "Yi Yi" (and talks about the "darkness" issue):

http://www.asiaarts.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=48983

Also hinted -- if one wants to see more Yang from Criterion -- one needs to buy "Yi Yi". ;~}

[Ashirg]

Would the financial success of Yi Yi on DVD mean more contemporary Asian or Taiwanese cinema in the Criterion catalog? Not necessarily, Tsai argues. "I don't think Criterion has ever made those decisions based on those numbers. In the end the decision is always based on whether or not that film deserves a place within our catalog and whether it was something that defines a filmmaker's work or film movement."

And whether or not Criterion can snag the rights...

[Michael Kerpan]

Well -- Tsui says "not necessarily" but that's not the same as "not at all".

;~}

[colinr0380]

That article is very interesting. After all what better love letter to a director could there be than having one of his films presented to him in the best possible version! I wonder how many directors have approached Criterion because they want to be involved (Michael Bay is the obvious one, and Wes Anderson looks to want to have a continuing relationship) , or more importantly I wonder if the relationship with Criterion has inspired them to a closer relationship with the DVD label and given them an outlet to talk about films? (e.g. does Bergman watch other Criterion releases now that he has director approved some of his own? Or whether Jean-Pierre Gorin was excited about talking about Boudu or A Nos Amours and that influenced their Criterion edition coming out with interviews with him? If that was the case I wonder whether it came about after a chat during the Tout Va Bien interviews or whether there was a plan to ask him about other films he was interested in).

I guess I'm just interested in how important the wider film community finds DVD releases, and especially Criterion discs. Obviously they're invaluable to film fans so I guess there is probably a range of reactions from simply fulfilling a contractual obligation to chat about a film to being excited about being asked to wanting to get deeply involved.

Here's hoping that more of Edward Yang's films come out. Then I can see some more of his work and retire my VHS of Brighter Summers Day (and maybe see the 4 hr version?).

[godardslave]

Well -- Tsui says "not necessarily" but that's not the same as "not at all".

;~}

you are incorrect.

Tsui did not say ""not necessarily", the person writing the article wrote that.

[Matt]

An article (in "Asia Pacific Arts" from UCLA) in which Criterion producer Curtis Tsui discusses the acquisition and release of "Yi Yi" (and talks about the "darkness" issue)

I still haven't watched Yi Yi yet, but this part of the article reminded me why I like Yang so much:

In the end, the clarity of the image trumps all other considerations. Yang's meticulous mise-en-scene is among the few in the world where details as minute as dots convey significant narrative and emotional material. As in many of Yang's films, reflections across glass surfaces juxtapose and flatten various planes of action, dramatizing pathos at a philosophical distance. At several moments in Yi Yi, outdoor cityscapes at night are reflected over glass windows which reveal the sadness within.

In one of his films, I don't remember which, he as a short scene in which the actors are out of frame but are reflected in the glossy paint of a door. That totally floored me.

[Michael Kerpan]

you are incorrect.

No pat on the head for finding this cool article. But a kick in the butt for seeing phantom quotation marks.

;~{

As to the difficulty getting feedback from Yang --

As I recall, he was gravely ill for quite a long while. I'm not sure just how fully he recovered. Obviously enough to tackle a new film -- but he just might not feel up to revisiting _old_ territory.

[zedz]

Great link. It's heartening to see that they are at least interested in A Brighter Summer Day and The Terrorizer (which may be the source of Matt's reflected scene? - it's a film that makes extensive, innovative use of off-screen space).

[Matt]

It's heartening to see that they are at least interested in A Brighter Summer Day and The Terrorizer (which may be the source of Matt's reflected scene?

Looking at plot synopses of his other films, I think it's actually Taipei Story that has that shot, but The Terrorizer(s) does have one of my favorite movie endings of all time.

[Narshty]

I just finished watching this, and was a bit underwhelmed to be honest. I don't think Yang quite hits the rhythm or tone of people just living their lives - it's a bit too schematic in design and flabby in execution. I had the sinking feeling of the whole endeavour being slightly inconsequential as the credits rolled - it wasn't the lack of plot resolution (heaven forbid), but the fact that the entire film, despite all the melodrama, was played so calculatedly subdued as to barely register. Of course, Yang's endless pleasure in finding beauty and elegance in the blandest of locations is always enriching, but I was expecting more of a balance between observation and intimacy rather than being so stacked in favour of the former. Despite all the fastidious naturalism, everyone remains resolutely a character in a movie.

[Lemmy Caution]

I agree with that Narshty. I'm surprised by all of the unreserved praise Yi Yi receives.

I also thought the film was overlong and got boring. I wasn't interested or engaged with the NJ story lines concerning his business and old girlfriend. And Grandma was forgotten about for too long a time. Situations seemed rather contrived so that we could watch how the characters respond, one by one. The film felt like a pilot episode for some low-key Taiwanese family melodrama.

[Narshty]

The major problem with Yi Yi is that it's only an ensemble film in terms of editing - virtually all the plot strands occur totally independently of one another - and even in that there's serious pacing flaws. Yang clearly wants it to all interconnect - ie. the clangingly obvious intercutting between NJ and his lost love with his daughter and her neighbour's ex-boyfriend on their first date - but the script isn't up to the job. The film's events barely brush against one another, even in the same plotline - the numbingly precocious little boy ("I know so little, grandma, and you know so much...") is injustly made an example of twice by his teachers and then...nothing. It's a three hour film in which there are no consequences to anything that might occur - at the end, apart from the grandmother dying, everything is exactly the same.

One last question: what was that cutaway to the beat-em-up computer game during the news report? Don't tell me Taiwanese news is actually that insensitive and tasteless.

[Cinesimilitude]

One last question: what was that cutaway to the beat-em-up computer game during the news report? Don't tell me Taiwanese news is actually that insensitive and tasteless.

I Don't live in Taiwan, so I can't say for sure, But I'm almost positive this was one of the few creative descision's by Yang, since the father's company is in talks with game developers.

The color work in the film was my favorite aspect. There were some standout scenes, the best of which was the discussion between the father and the japanese game developer over dinner. The film has a voyeuristic feel, and I think Yang's depiction of beauty in everyday life is quite the achievement, and much more subtle than American Beauty. Even though halfway across the world from me, the events that take place are all similar to something I've seen or experienced first hand to some degree, and It enriched those memories for me. The fact that it's about youth might be an important aspect of how much I enjoyed it, since those memories are so fresh in my mind.

This film is more a spotlight than a cinematic triumph. It illuminates what we ourselves have lived through. I could sit through this film if it were twice as long, even though half the running time my mind was lost in my memories.

[exte]

I agree with that Narshty. I'm surprised by all of the unreserved praise Yi Yi receives.

I also thought the film was overlong and got boring. I wasn't interested or engaged with the NJ story lines concerning his business and old girlfriend. And Grandma was forgotten about for too long a time. Situations seemed rather contrived so that we could watch how the characters respond, one by one. The film felt like a pilot episode for some low-key Taiwanese family melodrama.

I actually thought the film picked up with that elevator scene in the beginning with the old girlfriend. There was a movie the other day, can't remember now, but it was so boring until a relationship came into the fold. I literally found myself being drawn in just because I was shut out for so long. As for Yi Yi, I think it's alright to rather good, but for its length, it's by far not the most masterfully told story. It can't compare with the likes of Lean or Kurosawa, but then again, I'm sure everyone will argue, it's hardly like any of those filmmakers' works. Still...

[zedz]

The major problem with Yi Yi is that it's only an ensemble film in terms of editing - virtually all the plot strands occur totally independently of one another - and even in that there's serious pacing flaws. Yang clearly wants it to all interconnect - ie. the clangingly obvious intercutting between NJ and his lost love with his daughter and her neighbour's ex-boyfriend on their first date - but the script isn't up to the job. The film's events barely brush against one another, even in the same plotline - the numbingly precocious little boy ("I know so little, grandma, and you know so much...") is injustly made an example of twice by his teachers and then...nothing. It's a three hour film in which there are no consequences to anything that might occur - at the end, apart from the grandmother dying, everything is exactly the same.

I think you're making the (unfortunately not uncommon) mistake of criticising the director for not making the film you would have made. But since your ideal movie sounds like The Big Chill or American Beauty I'd rather stick with the Yang, thanks. I shudder to think of the Narshty re-edit in which Yang-Yang gets his glorious revenge on the evil teachers - would a bucket of pig's blood be colourful enough for you? Honestly, how many times did that happen in your school?

I don't know about your neck of the woods, but where I live my friends and family don't go through synchronised, colour-coordinated life changes timed to the TV hour. Most of the personal transformations I see around me (when they're perceptible at all) are incremental and halting. And if you don't see any incremental changes in the film's characters, you need to look harder. Yang isn't going to spell it out for you.

As for the 'ensemble' nature of the film, the strong compartmentalisation of individual lives in modern Taiwan is one of the major themes of Yi Yi. I find it hard to believe you could have missed this: it's explored at length throughout the narrative, is reflected (as you blindly noticed) in the film's structure, and is a major element of the film's visual style. All of those shots through windows and doorways, and those careful disjunctions between sound and image didn't just happen because Yang couldn't be bothered moving the camera into the same room as his actors.

But it's not just modish alienation effects, either: one of Yang's key ideas is showing how, despite that compartmentalisation, the lives of individuals cannot but impinge on one another. But this does not happen in any obvious or simplistic way, and if you go back and follow the delicate chain of cause and effect throughout the narrative (e.g. how the encounter between two lovers impacts on Ting-Ting and then bounces disastrously off onto her grandmother and the rest of the family) you might have a better understanding of what this film is all about.

[Narshty]

I think you're making the (unfortunately not uncommon) mistake of criticising the director for not making the film you would have made.

Well, that's true enough, but I'd totally disagree that's a mistake. Disagreeing with the makers on how the movie should have gone is a perfectly legitimate reason for not liking a film. In fact, it's the only reason.

However, it IS a mistake to assume that because someone didn't like a film, they didn't understand it. I thoroughly enjoyed the first half hour (despite that terrible score at the start), then slowly lost heart when I realised this was a film far more interested in its own themes than its characters. It keeps all the events on one constant, semi-detached level, but in doing so mistakes low-key understatement with subtlety. The characters still orate everything significant, just as they do in The Big Chill and American Beauty (though granted, the film's artistry is several notches higher than either). It's practically impossible to miss any of the themes you mentioned because they're all so naked and pushed to the fore. However, the whole "it's like real life, stupid" argument just doesn't sway with me, because life may be messy, full of non-sequiturs and a jumble of sometimes-related-sometimes-not incidents, but that doesn't necessarily make for an intriguing, satisfying or enlightening movie. To be clear, I don't actually consider this a terrible film, but I'm nonetheless mystified as to its virtually untouchable critical status. Actually, I'm not, but it still doesn't float my boat for the most part.

[hangthadj]

I just saw this over the weekend for the first time. I actually had started it twice during the week before late at night but never got past the first 1/2 hour before realizing I wasn't ready for a 3 hour film at mindight. This is a film that I would have normally passed over in the video store just thinking I had seen this kind of film before, ("Family over comes tragedy/odds, hooray human spirit!") if not for the Criterion logo.

Truth told there were a few times throughout the film, especially in the first two hours when I felt I would leave less than impressed. The rigidity of the family, and the overall lack of closeness that they seemed to exist with between them sort of put me off. I was wondering why I should care about these people. Then something changed.

By the time of Yang Yangs letter to grandma at the end I was totally into the film and deeply moved. Still I couldn't tell if I had been duped by a kid giving a profoundly moving speech at the end or whether it was something bigger. I mean even then, the family was split with husband and wife on different sides of the aisle.

The more I thought about it though over the last hour it really came into focus. Yeah the family seemed to operate in their own spheres, but as we saw with the Ting-Ting walking with Fatty while NJ was with Shelly theer was a connection. And yeah, maybe, perhaps it was a bit maniplative in the way of storytelling, but I think zedz post a few back hit it square on.

Besides all that, it was a beautiful film to look at and one I will be watching again, hopefully soon.

[Michael Kerpan]

This is a film that I find works better seen in installments. It struck me as very episodic -- and while I enjoyed an hour or so per day -- watching it all at once seemed a bit wearying.

[hangthadj]

This is a film that I find works better seen in installments. It struck me as very episodic -- and while I enjoyed an hour or so per day -- watching it all at once seemed a bit wearying.

I could see this being the case. I also think many people are opposed to this way of watching a movie, but sometimes it just makes sense.

[J M Powell]

Does anyone else's copy have a subtitle error at 1:46:59? On my copy, the line "We'll change from the green line to..." appears onscreen for only one frame then disappears before the viewer has time to read it. This occurs immediately after the scene change from the hotel lobby to the train station. Given the nature of the error, it seems unlikely that this could be unique to my copy, yet I can't find any online discussion of the problem. Can someone check his or her disc for me?