UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading [Archive]

[MichaelB]

This is why studios (rightly) basically never try to present something in "trooo 4Kay" when they're dealing with a film that was put together digitally at 2K (or lower in this case). It costs a lot and the results can be terrible anyway, and revisionist to boot. It would have been a far better service to this film to simply go back to the DI and present it warts and all, gaining some small benefit from the superior formats that UHD offers.

Hence why StudioCanal backtracked on a 4K upgrade of Irreversible once they realised that it was fundamentally a 2K digital work and that the only way of changing that would be to scan in the Super 16mm elements (assuming they survived) and redo literally all the extensive post-production - and in that film, there isn't a single shot that hasn't been digitally processed in some way, even if it's as basic as reframing it from 1.66:1 to 2.35:1, but in a lot of cases it's a lot more elaborate than that. (One of the film's most famous characters - the guy who enters the subway, sees what's going on and then beats a hasty retreat - was digitally added.)

And even if they were mad enough to actually do it, the visible difference would be negligible except to the most obsessive Caps-a-holic scrutineers. You'd be more likely to get people complaining that a new effect hasn't turned out exactly the same way as an older one.

(This is a perennial headache with turn-of-the-millennium films; there's simply not way of achieving a 4K upgrade without cheating in some way, because they were never designed at the time to receive such treatment.)

[tenia]

Yeah, that's a bit more complicated with Irréversible, which clearly toured in France advertised as a 4k remaster.

[Drucker]

Pretty significant differences in Second Sight and Criterion Walkabout.

[patreig]

This is why studios (rightly) basically never try to present something in "trooo 4Kay" when they're dealing with a film that was put together digitally at 2K (or lower in this case). It costs a lot and the results can be terrible anyway, and revisionist to boot. It would have been a far better service to this film to simply go back to the DI and present it warts and all, gaining some small benefit from the superior formats that UHD offers.

The original (non edited) negatives were scanned in 6K and a complete new post production was created under the supervision of the DoP Pawel Idelman.

[EddieLarkin]

I was referring to the original post production of the film. Having to do a "new post production" is the entire problem.

[tenia]

Hiventy managed to do it for Le pacte des loups, and I think again for Asterix Mission Cleopatre. I haven't seen yet Mission Cleopatre so can't vouch for this one but Le pacte des loups has pretty much no particular problem, but that's probably because no VFX was redone and no DNR apply (except, weirdly, for one scene).

[nicolas]

Hiventy managed to do it for Le pacte des loups, and I think again for Asterix Mission Cleopatre. I haven't seen yet Mission Cleopatre so can't vouch for this one but Le pacte des loups has pretty much no particular problem, but that's probably because no VFX was redone and no DNR apply (except, weirdly, for one scene).

Do you know how many effects shots these have? I presume a lot more than Pianist but maybe these had better preservation by the lab. In the case of The Pianist, they failed to do a proper archive of all the effects, which meant that the facilities who did the remaster had to figure out where they belong to. I‘m not sure if that ate up significant time and money, leading to the strange, unfinished state of the project.

[tenia]

I'd say that, yes : more effects, but better preservation.

[nicolas]

Kino’s Thunderbolt & Lightfoot is a very good release with mostly excellent PQ. I’ve only skipped through and noticed very minor imperfections in the skies so far, so this could be one of Kino’s stronger encodes. I’ll report back after seeing the film soon.

The Train also is mostly very good although I agree with Svet’s assessment about crushed blacks. https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Trai ... 22/#Review
The encode on that also seems very good. Again, I’ll try and revisit the film soon to better judge but all in all, this shouldn’t be more than a solid upgrade.

The home run of the week however is Natural Born Killers by Shout who likely knocked it out of the park. Excellent restoration, encode, sound (with the original Burn track reinstated) and extras. Another fantastic release by them. The December titles are surely in good hands.

[M Sanderson]

Glad to hear about Thunderbolt & Lightfoot, and hoping for the same with Kino's Charley Varrick.

[hearthesilence]

I didn't realize this about the Boyhood UHD:

Boyhood is presented in 1.85:1 with 5.1 sound. The film is presented on this UHD release in 4K resolution with HDR10 and Dolby Vision.

The 2K DPX master data files were sourced from NBC Universal. The 4K remastering and HDR10 & Dolby Vision grading was completed by David Mackenzie at Fidelity in Motion.

It likely benefits from David M.'s encoding, but I'm wondering if the UHD is really that much of an upgrade over the existing BD's due to the 2K source files?

[nicolas]

Received Criterion’s Moonage Daydream in 4K. After the Walkabout NexSpect encoding disaster, I feared for the worst and this is completely the opposite. What is going on over there?? I’m completely baffled. There’s a hint of grain in whites! Grain is small and crisp without appearing filtered in the apparent OCN footage Brett Morgen used.
The Atmos track is phenomenal and runs at a very high bitrates frequently between 6 and 7 Mbps.
I can only reiterate that I hope a miracle happens and Days of Heaven turns out the same.

Studiocanal’s The Others also looks phenomenal as it likely has a FiM or Engine House encode. There are some qualms on the other form about slightly excessive use of dirt removal during the restoration, affecting detail in the blacks but I imagine this is minor and not affecting the enjoyment of an otherwise superb effort. Sound in Atmos is good, the English 5.1 for my taste even better as it retains an immediacy the Atmos has not quite. It appears they mixed voices / effects etc. a bit further into the room. I’ll watch the film with the 5.1 and afterwards go back to selected moments to better test the Atmos. No matter how well the Criterion encode is, SC’s inclusion of the 5.1 is a clear advantage.

[tenia]

Does The Others' BD also is remastered ? And does it also have the Atmos track or only the 5.1 one ?

[nicolas]

Does The Others' BD also is remastered ? And does it also have the Atmos track or only the 5.1 one ?

The BD is remastered (screenshots are on the other forum) and it does have the 5.1 in addition to the Atmos. I’ve just seen the film and the Atmos is perfectly serviceable and solid on its own. I still preferred the 5.1 though as it sounded a little “tighter” to my ears.

[Finch]

Also, Scream 3. Why Paramount can't give the same care consistently to films that are actually good?

[therewillbeblus]

Also, Scream 3. Why Paramount can't give the same care consistently to films that are actually good?

If Scream 4 (aka the best Scream) gets the same care, all will be right

[dwk]

Lionsgate has Scream 4.

[Finch]

The Mist (Lionsgate) capsaholic of the b&w version

[Finch]

Psycho Collection (Arrow)

Feedback on the PQ of II, III & IV is very positive. The title card for Psycho II and the shot of the Bates house behind it have been messed up (almost certainly by Universal during the restoration stage) and there is no word yet from Arrow whether there'll be a replacement for II or not (the BD for II is not affected by this). The swamp sequence seems to have been taken not from the OCN because the PQ drops notably for that scene and then reverts back to normal at the next cut. I saw no complaints about how III and IV looked.

Early reactions to the Pumpkinhead 4k are very positive, at least for the video. I think there were complaints about the audio on the Night of the Demons 4k where the audio is out of sync for Sal at the 0:51:00-0:51:45 mark, and Shout mislabeled the 2.0 tracks (the "new" one is actually the original 2.0 track and vice versa). Child's Play 2 and 3 also had audio issues with the Atmos tracks though not the OG 2.0 tracks.

[Finch]

Rosemary's Baby (Paramount) is safe to buy, says evolvist but hold on to the CC BD for the extras.

EDIT 10/13/2023: revised after 10/13/2023 comments from nicholas and bfaison who've spotted issues with the 4k encode beyond the credits

[M Sanderson]

Psycho Collection (Arrow)

Feedback on the PQ of II, III & IV is very positive. The title card for Psycho II and the shot of the Bates house behind it have been messed up (almost certainly by Universal during the restoration stage) and there is no word yet from Arrow whether there'll be a replacement for II or not (the BD for II is not affected by this). The swamp sequence seems to have been taken not from the OCN because the PQ drops notably for that scene and then reverts back to normal at the next cut. I saw no complaints about how III and IV looked.

Early reactions to the Pumpkinhead 4k are very positive, at least for the video. I think there were complaints about the audio on the Night of the Demons 4k where the audio is out of sync for Sal at the 0:51:00-0:51:45 mark, and Shout mislabeled the 2.0 tracks (the "new" one is actually the original 2.0 track and vice versa). Child's Play 2 and 3 also had audio issues with the Atmos tracks though not the OG 2.0 tracks.

Watched 1, 2 and 3. Was kind of like seeing the original with fresh eyes, which was pleasant for what is at risk of being an over-familiar movie. Found myself enjoying the visual and editing patterns, especially in the parlour scene, with the placement of Norman and Marion against the different stuffed animals in the background.

At first I took a while to get into part 2, as it's not a film that pops. Quite subtle and subdued, but when I demonstrated some patience, I could see the strength of the HDR layer, especially indirect lighting from offscreen appearing fresh and vibrant. A very controlled piece of work, patient and calm, demonstrating Franklin's mastery of form.

Part 3 is nicely trashy, seeming to gun for the pulp roots of the original. Loved Perkins' directorial style, the intense lighting and plethora of scenes during the rain an important motif. I felt there were one or two passages of pure cinema in this one, and the two sequels appear stronger than ever. Part 3 wasn't quite as well encoded as part 2 however. During dark scenes I noticed some oddly wavering, smoky grain (the type I never see in Arrow, Indicator, BFI or SS releases) but it didn't happen a lot.

Didn't look at part 4 yet. Although I should.

[andyli]

Has Arrow's disc of Psycho fixed the audio issue once and for all? Can anyone confirm that so I can forget about getting the Universal replacement disc which has its own problem.

[MichaelB]

Has Arrow's disc of Psycho fixed the audio issue once and for all? Can anyone confirm that so I can forget about getting the Universal replacement disc which has its own problem.

It’s the Universal replacement disc. Arrow’s licence didn’t permit anything else.

[andyli]

Oh well thanks Michael.

[ford]

I’m very much a layman — the extent of my “expertise” is noting how awful the T2 UHD looks and being perturbed by the frozen grain in the Empire Strikes Back disc — but I thought the new UHD of The Pianist looked amazing. I only noticed one or two kinda soft shots. And the new CGI doesn’t stand out anymore than the old FX did. In fact, they look quite good.

I think the hysterics went overboard here.