Criterion Film Club: Suggestions and General Discussion

[Boosmahn]

Feel free to ask questions (but I have no knowledge as to quality or availability of dubbed versions of any of these)....

I've seen the first three dubbed. Serial Experiments Lain's dub is known for being a little stilted, which I've read defended as working in the series' favor. I've seen the series dubbed twice with no problems, but the English track probably won't be for everyone.

The Girl Who Leapt Through Time's dub is pretty good. This film is the one I'll cast my vote for; it won't win, but more attention needs to go to Mamoru Hosoda. (My profile picture is from his 2012 film Wolf Children! One of my favorite films... I highly recommend it.)

The Tale of the Princess Kaguya's dub isn't bad at all, but given the film's time period and subject matter, the Japanese track would be more fitting. Chloë Grace Moretz is good in the lead role.

Finally, it should be mentioned that Night is Short, Walk on Girl is a spiritual sequel to The Tatami Galaxy, with some characters appearing in both. Like Liz and the Bluebird and Sound! Euphonium, though, it might not be necessary to have seen the preceding series.

[Michael Kerpan]

My sense is that Night Is Short gets a tiny boost if you recognize details one previously saw in Tatami Galaxy, but that it is even more independent of its related movie than Liz is. I would note that Tomihiko Morimi who wrote the source stories for Tatami Galaxy and Night Is Short also wrote Eccentric Family (another fantastic series -- about tengu, foxes and tengu who live amongst the human population of Kyoto), which is set in the same part of northeastern Kyoto. And that same area figures in a number of other shows (like Tamako Market and Deaimon). When we last visited Tokyo (before seeing any of these shows) we were just blocks away (little did we realize).

Thank you for the details on dubbed versions. I must confess that I have never yet encountered a dub I liked as much (much less more) than the original Japanese version of an anime series or movie. But that's probably just me....

[feihong]

Thank you for the details on dubbed versions. I must confess that I have never yet encountered a dub I liked as much (much less more) than the original Japanese version of an anime series or movie. But that's probably just me....

I generally agree that there is more nuance to the Japanese-language track in almost all cases, but having heard the dub for Flip-Flappers this year, there are a lot of lines Brittany Karbowski does in a way that add something to Papika's character that i don't hear in Mao Ichimichi's rendering of the character––some additions I really appreciate. Papika has a blunt, affectless tone in English that feels appealingly childlike, and which I think reflects her unusual, slightly haywire situation (that she is an adult who has willed herself to regress into childhood, and ended up regressed mentally a little farther than intended). I also watched a lot of You're Under Arrest! in various dubs and found that the episodes are just as frustrating and awful in English and in Japanese––and I think huskier keening of the English-language voice actress who plays Natsumi Tsujimoto is somewhat preferable to the upper-mid-range tone of the Japanese voice actress. In both cases, the character is exasperating; it's just a question of in what tone you want to receive your torment.

[Boosmahn]

Thank you for the details on dubbed versions. I must confess that I have never yet encountered a dub I liked as much (much less more) than the original Japanese version of an anime series or movie. But that's probably just me....

I've been leaning more towards Japanese versions recently, unless I'm rewatching something I'm familiar with dubbed or just works better in English (Baccano! and Spice and Wolf come to mind). Some shows also attempt to have Japanese voice actors phonetically sound out English, often unsuccessfully, which can be smoothed over in an English dub -- Terror in Resonance is a good example of this. Anime where that turns into a real issue are few and far between, though.

And thanks for that endorsement, feihong. I watched Flip Flappers subbed a while ago, and I'll look more into the English dub in preparation for an eventual rewatch.

[Michael Kerpan]

Boosmahn -- Well. I loved Spice and Wolf in Japanese (haven't looked at Baccano). Sometimes the bad English in Japanese versions is truly bad. But every now and then it can be sort of charming (as in the recent Do It Yourself -- though some viewers found that character and performance "annoying"). When I started watching anime, English dubs struck me as typically quite bad -- not just in performance but in content -- also lots of extraneous profanity and vulgarity. At this point, I rarely feel any desire to check out English versions -- as I know and like the Japanese VAs already.

Note to all concerned -- I will be happy to discuss any of the non-winners (after the current discussion period finishes) in the Anime thread ,

[rde]

So, eh, Michael, let's look for some agreement. Can we agree that Pom Poko is a criminally underrated movie?

Glad Takahata got one more great one done before he died (re: Kaguya).

[Michael Kerpan]

In all honesty, I just don't do "under-rated". Under-watched, insufficiently discussed, worthy of more appreciation -- yes. Under-rated? I don't worry about other people's "ratings". Not trying to be contrary. Just truly don't care. (I do value the opinions of people whose taste I understand and admire, even when I may not share their taste).

I love Pom Poko, yet I can totally understand why others may not.

It seems that Miyazaki and Suzuki seem to have seriously considered taking Kaguyahime away from Takahata. Happily they did not wind up doing this.

[rde]

In all honesty, I just don't do "under-rated". Under-watched, insufficiently discussed, worthy of more appreciation -- yes. Under-rated? I don't worry about other people's "ratings". Not trying to be contrary. Just truly don't care. (I do value the opinions of people whose taste I understand and admire, even when I may not share their taste).

I love Pom Poko, yet I can totally understand why others may not.

It seems that Miyazaki and Suzuki seem to have seriously considered taking Kaguyahime away from Takahata. Happily they did not wind up doing this.

Yea, exactly, instead of underrated I should have said not rated, because I never see it mentioned. It seems almost unwatched over here, I only have met one Ghibli fan in person who had even heard the name. That seems so wrong when it ought to rank alongside Spirited Away.

Pom Poko's situation is strange compared to Grave of the Fireflies, or recently Kaguya, which drew such (comparatively) wide attention. The middle of his career — Only Yesterday too — just seems to have gotten lost in translation.

Kaguya wouldn't have been the same movie without Isao. Miyazaki doesn't share his taste for experimenting with different animation styles, and that movie needed to look as it did.

The studio is almost dead, by the looks of it, it's sad. Kaguya might turn out to be their last great work, so it's mystifying that they considered taking it away. If Kondo hadn't had a stroke, Ghibli could have stood a chance. But they should let it fade away rather than handing the name over to Goro...

[Boosmahn]

Boosmahn -- Well. I loved Spice and Wolf in Japanese (haven't looked at Baccano). Sometimes the bad English in Japanese versions is truly bad. But every now and then it can be sort of charming (as in the recent Do It Yourself -- though some viewers found that character and performance "annoying"). When I started watching anime, English dubs struck me as typically quite bad -- not just in performance but in content -- also lots of extraneous profanity and vulgarity. At this point, I rarely feel any desire to check out English versions -- as I know and like the Japanese VAs already.

Nothing wrong with that! And I'm sure the Japanese version of Spice and Wolf is good. By "works better," I was referring to the medieval European setting. (Although I don't completely follow this, as if I did, I would never watch a dubbed anime that takes place in Japan!)

[feihong]

Yea, exactly, instead of underrated I should have said not rated, because I never see it mentioned. It seems almost unwatched over here, I only have met one Ghibli fan in person who had even heard the name. That seems so wrong when it ought to rank alongside Spirited Away.

Pom Poko's situation is strange compared to Grave of the Fireflies, or recently Kaguya, which drew such (comparatively) wide attention. The middle of his career — Only Yesterday too — just seems to have gotten lost in translation.

I mean, I've seen Pom Poko, but I don't know what to say about it here, I didn't really enjoy it. After Horus, Prince of the Sun, I haven't really liked any of the films by Takahata. I haven't seen Kaguyahime, or My Neighbor the Yamadas, but I will give Kaguyahime a try.

But I also never found much to interest me in Only Yesterday, or Grave of the Fireflies. Something about Takahata's approach feels very inert to me, and renders the drama very sedentary.

[Michael Kerpan]

feihong -- I fear that Kaguyahime is likely to have even more of the Takahata attribute you dislike, but hopefully not.

"Inert" is a term I find hard to see applicable to Takahata. I find his characters typically far more "real" and "alive" than those in other anime -- even if they are usually far less "lively" than Miyazaki's (for instance).

[Mr Sausage]

Vote for some Criterions.

[therewillbeblus]

I want an excuse to listen to those two commentaries on the Criterion The Third Man/unwrap my blu after years on the shelf

[Michael Kerpan]

If enough people want to do a discussion of Lain at some point, I assume we can do it over in the Movies corner, right?

[Mr Sausage]

If enough people want to do a discussion of Lain at some point, I assume we can do it over in the Movies corner, right?

I’d love to do an episode-by-episode watchalong if others are down (and I can easily get ahold of it). I think it’d have to be in the tv subforum, tho’.

[therewillbeblus]

I’m interested, but I still need to purchase it from overseas, so establishing a timeline with some notice would be helpful

[Michael Kerpan]

Lain is theoretically still available on Funimation -- but this service is basically on life support, getting no new material and transferring most of its content to Crunchyroll. Lain has NOT moved -- and I am guessing it may not move -- but rather just become unavailable for legal streaming (for at least some period of time). It looks like it IS available for purchase from the Microsoft Store (no idea how this works). It's current disappearance from BluRay in the USA seems insane...

[therewillbeblus]

Well hasn’t Funimation essentially disbanded their priority for physical media due to the merger, and aren’t they the leading U.S. distributor interested in anything not insanely popular/fiscally secure? Thankfully a region B blu is available for your avg anime price on sites like Rarewaves

[Michael Kerpan]

Let's just say the anime physical media market in the USA is "unsettled"....

[therewillbeblus]

Let's just say the anime physical media market in the USA is "unsettled"....

I'm not an economist, nor am I aware of the popularity of anime and its relationship to the streaming service market in other countries, but the lack of physical media prioritization is not that surprising given the anime craze here in the U.S. and the ubiquitous presence of Netflix in American homes. Netflix has seized the rights to so many anime series that they essentially have a monopoly on it (outside of crunchyroll or whatever is happening there). I think we'll see a demand for physical anime releases again only if anime becomes less popular, and/or it makes sense for a streaming service that popular to shed the rights and allow them to expire, during a timeline when physical media is still being prioritized at all- which, as MichaelB has detailed, it's not exactly on an upward trend.. All I know is that just about every male client I've had across the last several years between the age of 8 and 22 are hooked on the exact same pool of anime series on Netflix (which I find surprising: that college kids are watching Naruto and Evangelion with seemingly equal interest, but so it seems to be)

[Mr Sausage]

I figure we can discuss potentially doing this project here. If it goes ahead, I can just make a Film Club thread.

Should I make a poll for either:

A. participation

or,

B. timeline, ie. when people might like to do this based on their ability to get ahold of the show, etc.?

[Michael Kerpan]

For the most dedicated anime fans, Netflix is largely a bete noire, due to its practice of holding shows for a considerable period of time after the initial Japanese airing, and then often dumping a bunch of episodes at once. Crunchyroll and HiDive (between the two) also offer hundreds of times more material -- lots of it more important than most of what (American) Netflix has to offer. HiDive is tied to Sentai, which often puts out affordable releases.

Addendum -- Most high-profile anime movies seem to get snapped up by G-Kids.

I guess as to Lain, first we need to see if people are interested. And then, if so, we can set up a time line.

[therewillbeblus]

Yeah I think a poll for interest makes the most sense- within that/this thread, people who would like to participate can also comment on an ideal timeline. Who knows, maybe the pool of folks who sign up already have it, or prefer to access it via web, or aren't region free. I can always get creative and find a way to see this according to the popularly-decided timeline, I just want to go the legal and, most importantly, financially-support the physical route whenever possible, but I'd probably just do that anyways and then catch up on whatever episode we're on when it got here

[Mr Sausage]

Ok, I’ll set up a participation poll when I have access to a computer and we can maybe figure out a timeline from there.

[Mr Sausage]

We've been discussing doing an episode-by-episode watchalong for the anime series, Serial Experiments Lain (Ryutaro Nakamura, 1998). Sounds like a cool, surreal tv show. This vote is to judge interest.

We can also use this thread to discuss potential time lines.