UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading [Archive]

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

Yes, I believe that the 90s mix (the one included on the german 4k) is a recreation of the original mix supervised by the original mixers after the 1979 mix was presumed lost, so it technically is not the original audio, but it is the closest thing

According to this the original mix was available in 1997, but since its channel layout wasn't directly compatible with AC-3 it was decided to do a new mix.

Getting a bit more into the weeds, I think the only way to accurately represent the '79 mix on video would be with something like a 5.2 track. Format 43 as used on the 70mm Apocalypse was basically Format 42 (FL, FLC, FC, FRC, FR, Rear Surround—the same configuration as 70mm Todd-AO, but with the FLC and FRC speakers used as LFEs) with additional left and right surrounds matrixed into the FLC and FRC channels, which implies you still had separation for the two LFEs. This would seem to backed up by the diagram of the speaker configuration included in the manual for the split-surround module. (This configuration is also largely identical to that used for Cinerama 7-track, with the difference that Cinerama used the FLC and FRC speakers for full-range audio and had two mid-surround wall speakers that could either be separately fed from tracks 6 or 7 or share a single channel, with track 7 then used for a rear speaker.) Was there a technical issue that prevented the use of separate audio for the two LFEs, or was it just decided that there was no real benefit to doing so and all Format 43 mixes treated them as a single LFE channel? The manual linked above says the Todd-AO FLC/FRC speakers were repurposed for LFE by Dolby because that degree of fine separation was unnecessary on anything except very large screens, so it seems plausible that the two LFEs were never actually separated. If they were separated you could approximate that using an Atmos 9.1 layout, but I don't think that's a common configuration in home theaters.

[hearthesilence]

The US (and UK) Apocalypse Now UHDs have Atmos only on all 3 cuts. Frustratingly, the packaged in Blu-ray of the theatrical cut DOES include the original 5.1. This same 5.1 is available on the German UHD theatrical cut.

Does anyone know the difference between the original 5.1 and the Atmos? I'm guessing they at least have all the sound intact - it's probably easier to translate 5.1 to Atmos than trying to make a new stereo or 5.1 mix from something that was mono only, correct?

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

I think all of the 21st-century surround mixes are derived from the Redux mix, which in turn used the '97 mix as the starting point. One thing that's definitely missing is Willard's line at the bridge, "I gotta find somebody. I need some information"—for the Redux and Final Cut this was replaced with "To see if I can find some fuel, get some information," but through what I'm guessing was an oversight, the post-'97 releases of the original cut use the Redux version. Beyond that I don't know much, but the Atmos mix apparently goes a lot lower on the frequency spectrum, down to 16Hz on the Blu-ray version.

[Finch]

Real Genius (Sony)

* with a small caveat that the 2.0 audio has not been cleaned up and has a lot of hiss. The enclosed BD is also an upgrade.

Take 1

Monty Python and the Meaning of Life (Universal)

Take 1, Take 2 and Take 3

[Finch]

French comparison shows the UHD of Lost Boys as the resounding winner; unfortunately the enclosed BD is not a strong upgrade.

[Finch]

Vinegar Syndrome's UHD of Cloak and Dagger has compression and grading issues.

[MichaelB]

Stephen Bjork of The Digital Bits has just posted this on Facebook:

Shout! Factory’s new UHD release of THE FOG uses the same 4K master that the previous StudioCanal version did, but thankfully it seems to be a different encode. There isn’t much in the way of compression artifacts this time, and the HDR10 layer seems to work properly. Everything is as sharp as the original anamorphic lenses would allow, and both the grain and the fog itself seem to be managed well throughout. The HDR grade improves the contrast range, with very deep blacks, but no crushed detail within them. When things get hot with Blake and Malone during the finale, they get really hot. The biggest surprise is that the expanded contrast and color gamut improves even more mundane moments during the film. When a shadow from a cloud passes over Stevie Wayne’s house at 26:17, the shadow seems deeper, with the foliage more refined both within it and without it. It’s a subtle improvement, but it really does make a difference.

[dwk]

Vinegar Syndrome's UHD of Cloak and Dagger has compression and grading issues.

What is it with VS and their hot skin tones? It is starting to make sense that that guy from VS preferred the radioactive red/orange skin tones in the Universal Fast Times over the correct Criterion disc.

[Stefan Andersson]

The Rules of the Game has been released on UHD in France, with English subs.

The Hiventy 4k restoration was made in SDR. The authoring (not by Hiventy) resulted in an HDR bluray (I assume they refer to the UHD disc), which means automatic playback in HDR (=increased contrast and loss of shadow detail). Which means that the screencaps here are incorrect:
https://digitalcine.fr/4k-bluray-dvd/te ... jeu-en-4k/

Hiventy is in talks with French disc distributor ESC Distribution about this.

Hiventy comments, in French, on the restoration of The Rules of the Game:
https://digitalcine.fr/4k-bluray-dvd/ne ... more-63635

Mods: this concerns a French disc, but since Criterion co-financed the restoration it seems to be of interest outside of France (future Criterion UHD disc?) so I posted in this thread.

[Finch]

I did add La Regle du Jeu as a reference title one or two pages back.

[rrenault]

Not to be nit picky about typos, but the distributor for La Règle du Jeu is ESC rather than EMS, which is how it's written in the column of reference titles. Also, you have Le Cercle Rouge written "Le Circle Rouge" in the "solid upgrade" column. Just wanted to point these out.

[Finch]

Geoff D on The Lost Boys

Not as strong an endorsement as Poltergeist but the gap between the UHD and the BDs is significant enough, I think, that it still if only just about falls into the top tier.

The compression looked airtight to me, no overt blocking or banding or chroma nastiness anywhere. It's just typical that Poltergeist gets a gorgeously unfudged restoration but the encoding to UHD is somewhat brittle, whereas Lost Boys gets a good fudging and the compression is stellar! It helps that the latter is a shorter movie than the former so there's more room to groove even on a UHD66, it helps that it's been "grain managed" so the noisy randomisation of the grain is tamped down, but even so: it takes the piss. Neither Lost Boys or Poltergeist is a bad effort in those respective areas though, I have to make that absolutely clear once again, it's just a shame that we rarely get a combination of a tasteful, respectful remaster AND a solid compression job from several major studios these days. Yes I'm doing my Goldilocks bit, deal with it.

I am still pleased with Lost Boys' UHD however. Warners have done some tweakery to the grain without totally negating its filmic origins, select scenes aside, and the new transfer & grading completely revitalises the image compared to the extremely haggard old Blu. It's amazing how these remasters seem to remove a veil from proceedings, for if you watch something on a crusty old transfer then it feels more of its time, like a dusty relic which still has its charms for some people but which seems to badly date the content. But on these 4K transfers, wow, it's like having a time machine. Instead of making it look like It Was Filmed Yesterday™, it turns it into a window into the past, it's like you're there instead of having the imagery refracted through the substandard home video processes of whatever period. People may well say that about 4K HDR in another 35 years, that it was just a fad of the time, but in the here and now we've never had it so good. Alas, that the new Blu-ray fared as well, after the excellence of Poltergeist's new Blu I was expecting much betterer than this, the SDR conversion is too hinky for my liking.

[Finch]

Not to be nit picky about typos, but the distributor for La Règle du Jeu is ESC rather than EMS, which is how it's written in the column of reference titles. Also, you have Le Cercle Rouge written "Le Circle Rouge" in the "solid upgrade" column. Just wanted to point these out.

Fixed both, thanks!

[jegharfangetmigenmyg]

Where is The Last Action Hero? I don't own it, but it's Sony, so it should be reference material, right? I see that it's rereleased in Steelbook format, probably in Sony's line of re-releases with DV added?

[EddieLarkin]

The Steelbook was released concurrently with the standard version, it's not a re-release. All discs are HDR10 only. But it's a very nice disc all the same.

[Finch]

(Edit: Eddie beat me to it)

The reviews dating from 2021 only mention HDR and my understanding is that the 2022 steelbook is just a repressing of the 2021 edition with nothing else added, but it does appear to be a significant upgrade over the Sony and Mill Creek BDs, so I guess it does warrant a top tier spot. Adding it to OP.

[Burke31]

Is Deep Red (Arrow) not worthy of the top tier?

[Finch]

It depends on which previous version you compare it to. I only had it in the Solid tier because it wasn't a huge upgrade over Arrow's most recent Blu-Ray but if you owned any previous BD (and I had forgotten to add it to the first tier for anyone who did not own the newest Arrow BD), it was a different story. I've added an entry to the first tier as well in the OP with the caveat, ditto the existing second tier entry. I think literally the only title where the UHD also advanced significantly over the most recent Arrow Blu-Ray was An American Werewolf in London. I am trying to take into account how much of an upgrade over previous releases each UHD is, and since Arrow typically do excellent Blu-Rays, the gap doesn't tend to be huge. Technically, and in general, Deep Red (and all other Arrow UHDs) is a top tier title but the more nuanced response is, if you already own the most recent Arrow BD, it's less impressive. So, since both things can be true to different people, I felt the best thing to do was list all Arrow UHDs in both categories (with the exception of the Landis).

[jegharfangetmigenmyg]

Thanks, Eddie and Finch. I have to rewatch it to see if I'm correct as remembering it as a more than funny genre spoof. Finch, another title that's missing is one of the first UHD releases, Saving Private Ryan. Overall, the reviews from back then were glowing, and it definitely looks like a more than good upgrade compared to the BD.

[Finch]

Paramount are insisting that Mars is meant to be blue and not red in the opening of War of the Worlds, and that they "consulted original IB Technicolor prints and matched the look from there". That's already being publicly challenged by Bob Furmanek and others. I haven't seen any feedback yet as to how the rest of the disc holds up but purists will want to hold on to, or re-buy the Criterion BD. Paramount just don't give a shit.

[Finch]

Early word on Kino's In Brudges UHD is good.

[Finch]

A quick search yields a 2022 post from Geoff D that the Saving Private Ryan UHD has terrible compression on the HDR10 layer but that the film looks fine in Dolby Vision. I mean, some people won't ever notice poor compression but if having an HDR10 only capable player locks you out of having the best possible presentation of the film, I'm really hesitating to call this a reference disc. Sticking it in the "Great if you have Dolby Vision" tier for now.

[Finch]

Sound of Metal (Criterion)

Chris's review for the forum

The UHD and the BD both got a 9/10 for picture.

From the UHD review:

As solid as the base presentation is it’s the application of HDR that ends up giving things the push it needs. Shadows look better here in comparison to the Blu-ray’s presentation, where the shadows can be slightly murkier. Blacks come out looking a bit richer and deeper while the gradients moving into the light are cleaner, pushing out a little more detail in the process. The film can look a bit “darker” in comparison to the Blu-ray presentation, but I felt the colours here managed to show more vibrancy in a few sequences (where the palette allows). HDR is also nicely used to enhance the highlights in the film’s darker concert sequences, from the light bouncing off Riz Ahmed’s character to it going through his bleached hair. It’s very striking.

[Finch]

Early feedback on Scream's Evil Dead 2013 UHD suggests a solid upgrade (as the Blu-Ray was excellent to begin with).

[Finch]

And another strong Sony catalogue title with I Know What You Did Last Summer