Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

[DarkImbecile]

Excuse my ignorance on licensing, but does Disney still control most of the Touchstone titles, like Bringing Out the Dead or The Insider?

Yes, Disney owns the Touchstone catalog.

However, Bringing Out the Dead is a Paramount owned film.

Ah, I see... well, hopefully this bodes well for opportunities to gain access to the Touchstone/Hollywood Pictures vaults from the '80s to the '00s, as there are some very good titles buried in there

[bad future]

low key chilling realization that this announcement was held to be part of "Disney+ Day"

Am I correct that Disney has a weird thing where they never include Dolby Vision on physical discs even though their UHD releases usually do include Dolby Vision on streaming? That at least seems to be true for their WALL-E release, which is one potential benefit to tackling something Disney already released, though obviously mileage will vary.

Speaking of Fantasia and Sleeping Beauty (easily my favorites from the Disney canon!) I wonder if this collaboration, should it be an ongoing thing, could yield any releases that use original film elements rather than Disney's usual method of scanning the animation cels directly, hence no grain and slightly altered colors compared to previous releases? Like, I wonder if there are elements that Disney has scanned for safe keeping but just doesn't use because of the type of products they make and who they make them for, but might allow someone like Criterion to use for their more niche audience? Or if any potential releases would mostly be limited to what Disney would release themselves. Probably unrealistic but I'm dreaming of Fantasia with a reconstructed Fantasound mix, or even just whichever laserdisc release was closest!..

[yoloswegmaster]

I'm hoping that a release for Dead Presidents is on the docket. Hell, I wonder if Criterion will be able to release Song of the South (I strongly doubt this) or Fantasia on 4K.

[DarkImbecile]

I'd love 25th Hour and/or Summer of Sam to get some attention, in addition to those already mentioned

[yoloswegmaster]

I'd love 25th Hour and/or Summer of Sam to get some attention, in addition to those already mentioned

Summer of Sam was already released by Kino Lorber but I'm with you on 25th Hour.

[Maltic]

I'm hoping that a release for Dead Presidents is on the docket. Hell, I wonder if Criterion will be able to release Song of the South (I strongly doubt this) or Fantasia on 4K.

How about Dead Presidents and Song of the South in a combined release. People love box sets.

[RIP Film]

Not Disney related, what are the chances La Belle et la Bête gets a 4K upgrade anytime soon with the SNC/Cinémathèque restoration?

[Quote Perf Unquote]

Never Cry Wolf?

[Shrew]

I like how WALL-E has taken the early release notice for December slot that's been used to highlight the big box releases over the last few years. I never thought a complete Pasolini box was very likely (hard to see that flying off shelves), but now its been usurped by perhaps the most unPasolini thing you could think of.

[ryannichols7]

I like how WALL-E has taken the early release notice for December slot that's been used to highlight the big box releases over the last few years. I never thought a complete Pasolini box was very likely (hard to see that flying off shelves), but now its been usurped by perhaps the most unPasolini thing you could think of.

after seeing that Carlotta's Pasolini box has a lot of unrestored films, I don't mind waiting if it means the Pasolini works will actually get restored first. hopefully WALL-E can fund it!

[ryannichols7]

I highly recommend the BFI Potemkin - the most satisfying transfer of any Eisenstein to digital that I've seen and I've seen a lot. I'm still waiting for a Ten Days That Shook the World that works for me, and Ivan the Terrible I & II. I believe there's a Russian blu-ray of Ivan, but have never seen it reviewed, and availability of it, if it exists, must be difficult these days.

definitely going to pick it up - I am not a fan of the Potemkin and Strike releases stateside, the covers are the only good part of either..

If Criterion is going to start releasing animated films from the Pixar and Disney catalog, then it's a trend I frankly welcome. I do hope they extend this to films that Disney hasn't already released, of course.

same, because it's probably hard to believe otherwise to someone not super versed in this stuff - but they're not gonna get preserved by their own company in the best quality anyway. even if Disney did release Fantasia or Sleeping Beauty, I'm sure they would botch both releases. I hope this collaboration yields those films, whether through Criterion eventually, or maybe Disney can learn to get their UHDs right through this.

[FrauBlucher]

I like how WALL-E has taken the early release notice for December slot that's been used to highlight the big box releases over the last few years. I never thought a complete Pasolini box was very likely (hard to see that flying off shelves), but now its been usurped by perhaps the most unPasolini thing you could think of.

after seeing that Carlotta's Pasolini box has a lot of unrestored films, I don't mind waiting if it means the Pasolini works will actually get restored first. hopefully WALL-E can fund it!

This is actually being released November 22, during the next B&N sale

[CSM126]

Just imagining Lee Kline walking into Disney’s restoration suite and saying “ok so, whatever it is you’re doing, stop”. The dumbfounded looks he’d get when he turns DNR to zero. Great big whiteboard with the words “FILM GRAIN = GOOD” scrawled on it.

[ryannichols7]

I like how WALL-E has taken the early release notice for December slot that's been used to highlight the big box releases over the last few years. I never thought a complete Pasolini box was very likely (hard to see that flying off shelves), but now its been usurped by perhaps the most unPasolini thing you could think of.

after seeing that Carlotta's Pasolini box has a lot of unrestored films, I don't mind waiting if it means the Pasolini works will actually get restored first. hopefully WALL-E can fund it!

This is actually being released November 22, during the next B&N sale

yes, I'm surprised it got announced after, but I guess that was in tandem with D23 weekend.

it would be really something if they hit us with another email tomorrow.."by the way, the complete works of Pier Paolo Pasolini will be released in December", but I of course doubt that

Just imagining Lee Kline walking into Disney’s restoration suite and saying “ok so, whatever it is you’re doing, stop”. The dumbfounded looks he’d get when he turns DNR to zero. Great big whiteboard with the words “FILM GRAIN = GOOD” scrawled on it.

this is the funniest mental image I can imagine, thank you. and would legitimately be a great thing!

[Computer Raheem]

Just imagining Lee Kline walking into Disney’s restoration suite and saying “ok so, whatever it is you’re doing, stop”. The dumbfounded looks he’d get when he turns DNR to zero. Great big whiteboard with the words “FILM GRAIN = GOOD” scrawled on it.

[captveg]

same, because it's probably hard to believe otherwise to someone not super versed in this stuff - but they're not gonna get preserved by their own company in the best quality anyway.

Disney is actually very good at preserving their films and related materials. Now, releasing those preserved films on video to the consuming public without digital manipulation is another story.

[ryannichols7]

same, because it's probably hard to believe otherwise to someone not super versed in this stuff - but they're not gonna get preserved by their own company in the best quality anyway.

Disney is actually very good at preserving their films and related materials. Now, releasing those preserved films on video to the consuming public without digital manipulation is another story.

oh yes, completely correct! thank you for that. they do maintain everything in great condition - I just wish we the masses got to see it that way. it's weird because their Blurays were generally okay in my experience, but their 4K and streaming leaves so much to be desired.

the restorations that the Buena Vista/ABC/Touchstone/Hollywood movies got are pretty good - Rebecca and Notorious really are top notch stuff. hopefully going forward the animated works can be treated the same way

[movielocke]

I'm totally gobsmacked by the announcement. Funnily enough I was planning on totally silly guesses of Fox and laserdisc titles for the December monthly guessing thread, Sunrise, How Green Was My Valley, Adventures of Robin Hood, Casablanca, but I never would have thought (even being silly) that laserdisc upgrades could suddenly include the buena vista ones!

Oh I really hope disney is licensing fox titles and that Sunrise is now possible and that Criterion is working on making it happen!

[ryannichols7]

I'm totally gobsmacked by the announcement. Funnily enough I was planning on totally silly guesses of Fox and laserdisc titles for the December monthly guessing thread, Sunrise, How Green Was My Valley, Adventures of Robin Hood, Casablanca, but I never would have thought (even being silly) that laserdisc upgrades could suddenly include the buena vista ones!

Oh I really hope disney is licensing fox titles and that Sunrise is now possible and that Criterion is working on making it happen!

I used to be very part of the crowd that felt Sunrise was very adequately served by the MOC release - but that is a much older release at this point, which is on the lighter side with extras compared to even MOC's releases now. if they don't get the opportunity to work with Fox on a new edition, I hope Criterion can. I wonder what it would take to restore Sunrise and City Girl alike, and what condition either film is. the fact that no US disc is in print definitely seems like a huge omission. I'll take any and all Ford that they can get from Fox too - the releases of My Darling Clementine and Young Mr. Lincoln are top notch, getting to see them do more would be a treat

I wonder if we will see a 4K of a Fox license coming up soon - All That Jazz would be a great choice, the movie is very en vogue at the moment. I'd kill to see something more daring like The Innocents and obviously Kagemusha too..the possibilities are definitely exciting at the moment, and I'm thrilled to see people enthusiastic about them

[hearthesilence]

I've actually watched the Czech version of Sunrise on the MoC quite a bit simply because the picture quality is so good. It kind of makes it more frustrating that the complete version of the film isn't available in the same quality.

[MV88]

Yes, Disney owns the Touchstone (and Hollywood Pictures) catalog.

However, Bringing Out the Dead is a Paramount owned film.

With that in mind, I gotta think Criterion has sought to bring Dead Presidents back into the collection.

If the Touchstone library is now in play for Criterion, I hope Ed Wood is among the titles they’re considering for a 4K release. I’m sure they could get a whole bunch of great extras related to Ed Wood himself. I mean, they could probably even pair it with Plan 9 From Outer Space if they wanted to, which would be so fun to see the “worst movie ever made” released by Criterion.

Scorsese’s Kundun would be another good choice for a 4K release, and Disney has made it very clear they never intend on releasing it on their own streaming platform(s), so I don’t imagine that’s one they would have any reservations about licensing out to another company.

[olmo]

I'm hoping that a release for Dead Presidents is on the docket. Hell, I wonder if Criterion will be able to release Song of the South (I strongly doubt this) or Fantasia on 4K.

I strongly doubt an obviously still smarting Criterion who by its subsequent roster post New York Times article has obviously let itself be subjugated would dare go anywhere near Song of the South.

[DarkImbecile]

…“subjugated”?

[domino harvey]

On the one hand, Criterion clearly has driven a portion of its release strategy in response to the NYT article. This may be a net positive or negative depending on how you feel about the slate they’ve introduced. On the other hand, people rarely just say that without including some vaguely (or not so vaguely) insinuating language.

As someone who doesn’t particularly find many of these titles of personal interest, let me show you how you can deal with this shift: be glad Criterion is casting a wider net, because eventually them doing so will bring you a title you never expected to get this treatment, or will illuminate a new discovery that you will enjoy. And remember that you don’t have to like or want every Criterion title. And that this is a company balancing the need to make money with what I’d call a sincere desire to increase representation in its output. As with the moviemaking business itself, the more voices given an outlet, the more chances an audience has to discover a voice that resonates with them

Thank you for attending Soapbox Saturdays with domino harvey

[FrauBlucher]

Criterion clearly has driven a portion of its release strategy in response to the NYT article.

I don't believe CC was forced or coerced or whatever into going into the direction they have. Just my theory in which I have no way to prove it, but I believe Criterion was moving in that direction anyway and Becker worked with the author of the Times article as a way to usher in this new era. Titles started to get announced right after that article was published.