Criterion and UHD

[FlickeringWindow]

What's the chances that Criterion or anyone else release silent films in UHD?

Out of all their silent releases, these are what were restored in 4K resolution:

The Cameraman - 35mm safety fine-grain positive, 35mm duplicate positive (of The Big Parade of Comedy), 16mm print
The Kid Brother - 35mm unspecified fine-grain positive (created from the nitrate camera negative)
Speedy - 35mm safety fine-grain positive, 35mm preservation negative
The Kid - 35mm nitrate camera negative (likely reassembled from B/C negatives), 35mm nitrate fine-grain positive

I remember reading somewhere there's a few newer restorations of Chaplin's films, so I'd expect Modern Times to be high on the list (especially since even the 2010 Blu-ray looks quite lovely). Even though Safety Last! has its best surviving material as an original 35mm nitrate print, having seen it in 35mm, it would also be a great candidate.

[FrauBlucher]

City Lights is listed as 4k remaster. I was wondering for technical reasons, like frame rate, or that's no longer an issue

[tenia]

If such silents could be handled on BD frame-rate wise, I don't think they should pose any issue on a UHD.

[Drucker]

Indeed, I was under the impression that UHDs were the same as blu-rays, just with much larger storage?

[jegharfangetmigenmyg]

This is exciting news! If Criteiron decided to release a silent title on UHD, it would be a first. There are criminally few pre-1950'ies titles out on UHD right now. The Wizard of Oz and Mr. Smith Goes to Washington are probably the current grandfathers. Technicolor films, especially, in HDR will especially be amazing if done right, so I'm specifically looking forward The Red Shoes. Will be interesting to see if it is released in HDR or SDR.

I recently upped my projector and system from 1080p to 4K, a budget PJ, the BenQ HT3550, I should add, so I won't experience the full advantages of HDR, but that's only one aspect of UHD, I think. I especially like the image stability and grain rendering is amazing. It is definitely a more filmic experience in every way. The PJ also handles 1080p material exceptionally, so I would definitely recommend an upgrade, since UHD players are so cheap now. For those interested, I am splitting the output signal in 4K video and optical 5.1 sound so I didn't have to buy a new receiver. My room is not big enough for 7.1 sound (or impressive 5.1, for that matter, but I set it up anyways), so that aspect of UHD is not interesting to me. Most of the films I have do not have Atmos sound. Long story short, UHD is definitely not the bells and whistles that some make it out to be, and I think it's great that Criterion finally got on the train.

One thing that I have not seen discussed: Since UHD is region free... Would that mean that Criterion will have worldwide licensing rights for these titles?

[grayskale]

I hope they get to re-do "The Last Emperor" in UHD - reverting it back to its OAR - this one i will upgrade in a heartbeat.

[tenia]

Atmos remixes feel gimmicky to me in respect to catalogue movies. While I get what they can bring and how they can offer very good AQ, it seems like a mercantile addition that have nothing to do wity improving the faithfulness or the quality of the presentation of those movies. It reminds me when Arrow used to release movies with tons of remixes but not always with the OG mono track, something they ended up running away from (legitimately).

So those remixes really feel like grabbing a purely technophile crowd who is "no Atmos/DTS:X no sale" even if we're talking about Taxi Driver.

Indeed, I was under the impression that UHDs were the same as blu-rays, just with much larger storage?

Not exactly of course, but they share indeed most (all ?) of the compatibility improvements offered through BD over DVD.

I'm not sure but UHD in the US might even be compatible with 1080i50 now !

[jegharfangetmigenmyg]

Atmos remixes feel gimmicky to me in respect to catalogue movies. While I get what they can bring and how they can offer very good AQ, it seems like a mercantile addition that have nothing to do wity improving the faithfulness or the quality of the presentation of those movies. It reminds me when Arrow used to release movies with tons of remixes but not always with the OG mono track, something they ended up running away from (legitimately).

So those remixes really feel like grabbing a purely technophile crowd who is "no Atmos/DTS:X no sale" even if we're talking about Taxi Driver.

Exactly. And I am not watching Marvel, Michael Bay, and not a lot of newer action films, so it is not all that interesting to me. Of course having surround sound with subwoofer, etc. greatly enhances films like Gravity or even a classic like Jurassic Park, and for me, especially The Last Waltz, etc., but mostly I've been using my surround setup for multichannel music on SACD and BD-Audio.

My point was that I have definitely seen a jump in PQ from dvd to blu-ray and now to UHD blu-ray, no question about that, whereas the upgrade from dvd's standard DTS to blu-ray's DTS-HD and Dolby True-HD was almost insignificant to my ears. At least in my setup. That's why I'm not that interested in Atmos and DTS-X now. I'm sure if you had a real bang for the buck cinema setup in 7.1 you probably would be able to hear the difference in resolution, maybe, but I have chosen to focus my budget on the projector and the screen, not on extra speakers.

And you're right about the older films getting "upgraded" to newer formats. Maybe for Taxi Driver they could restore Hermann's score and get extra clarity out of the extra resolution, but I very much doubt that there's anything to be won with regards to the actual film's soundtrack and dialogue.

[mkozlows]

For those interested, I am splitting the output signal in 4K video and optical 5.1 sound so I didn't have to buy a new receiver. My room is not big enough for 7.1 sound (or impressive 5.1, for that matter, but I set it up anyways), so that aspect of UHD is not interesting to me. Most of the films I have do not have Atmos sound.

Even without piles of speakers and Atmos, there's still good reason to use HDMI for audio: Basically all UHD Blu-ray discs have TrueHD or DTS HD-MA lossless audio on them, but if you use optical, it downmixes that to (extremely lossy, think MP3 quality) Dolby Digital. The clarity of sound in UHD-BD soundtracks via HDMI is notable even if you just have a regular 5.1 setup.

[jegharfangetmigenmyg]

For those interested, I am splitting the output signal in 4K video and optical 5.1 sound so I didn't have to buy a new receiver. My room is not big enough for 7.1 sound (or impressive 5.1, for that matter, but I set it up anyways), so that aspect of UHD is not interesting to me. Most of the films I have do not have Atmos sound.

Even without piles of speakers and Atmos, there's still good reason to use HDMI for audio: Basically all UHD Blu-ray discs have TrueHD or DTS HD-MA lossless audio on them, but if you use optical, it downmixes that to (extremely lossy, think MP3 quality) Dolby Digital. The clarity of sound in UHD-BD soundtracks via HDMI is notable even if you just have a regular 5.1 setup.

I should clarify that I am indeed using HDMI out for audio, at least with my UB-820 for UHD blu-rays, I then let the player decode the sound and send out a PCM signal to my receiver. However, my Nvidia shield that I use as media streamer only has one HDMI output, so my solution has been to buy a splitter which sends out the video through HDMI and then the audio via optical toslink, since I cannot run a 4K signal through my receiver. Isn't this the best solution if I don't want to buy a new receiver? (sorry for hijacking this thread, by the way)

[DimitriL]

Even without piles of speakers and Atmos, there's still good reason to use HDMI for audio: Basically all UHD Blu-ray discs have TrueHD or DTS HD-MA lossless audio on them, but if you use optical, it downmixes that to (extremely lossy, think MP3 quality) Dolby Digital. The clarity of sound in UHD-BD soundtracks via HDMI is notable even if you just have a regular 5.1 setup.

I also have a split setup. I’ve got a 4k TV and 4k player, but an older Denon receiver. As much as I’d love to upgrade that receiver, I simply don’t have the resources to do so right now. I probably could get something on the cheaper side, but I’d like to future-proof as much as possible.

[flyonthewall2983]

How much will the price go up?

[soundchaser]

Presumably we’ll find out tomorrow, but I think anything between “none” and “$10” makes sense.

[black&huge]

I actually think they might keep the $40 msrp for the 4K dual formats.

[DimitriL]

I would love it if they kept the price point, especially since they’re spreading special features to multiple discs and it’s not like you’re getting a “bonus disc.” But unless UHD replication has substantially dropped in price, I just don’t see it being really feasible. I know they do occasionally have a multi-disc set at the regular price - I’m thinking The Irishman off the top of my head - but it seems like the exception.

[FrauBlucher]

I posted this on Warner Archive thread but he talks about Criterion and there move into UHD at around the 36 minute mark give or take
George Feltenstein interview

[jedgeco]

Presumably we’ll find out tomorrow, but I think anything between “none” and “$10” makes sense.

I've become someone optimistic that there won't be a price increase; $39.99 is still on the high end of the market for UHDs. That said, it's pretty incredible that Criterion hasn't raised MSRPs on its flagship products since the first DVD was released in 1998.

[Glowingwabbit]

Given that they've had some multi-disc blu-rays at $49.99 that seems like a reasonable price. I've also never bought a Criterion that wasn't on sale (minus OOP discs) so to me that's still cheaper than every other boutique label that does similar level of packaging (even when on sale).

[swo17]

This is of course a good real-world example of Schrödinger's cat--the pricing has already been decided but is unknown, so at the moment it is both $39.99 and $49.99

[The Pachyderminator]

Presumably Criterion accepts that a large portion of their sales are at 50% off MSRP, so some wiggle room is built into the current price level. Is it possible that the UHDs will be the same MSRP as blu-rays, but then be discounted by less than 50% during sales?

[yoloswegmaster]

In the FAQs section of the site, 4K UHDs are listed as being region-free.

[willoneill]

I think that's an industry standard for UHD, with the exception of a couple of snafus from Shout Factory.

[yoloswegmaster]

It should be but there have been a couple of titles that have been region-locked that I'm assuming was at the behest of the rightsholder, so there could have been a chance that Criterion ended up region-locking their UHD titles.

[yoloswegmaster]

Mulholland Drive 4K is up and the SRP is $49.99.

[therewillbeblus]

They're all up - and wow, only the Lynch has a DVD option due to it being an upgrade- the rest of the UHDs are split between UHD+DVD and blu-ray price points