Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2021-4)

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bottled spider
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2020)

#126 Post by bottled spider » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:12 pm

He's talking about his approach to his own movie, right, not responding to the new one? It seems uncharacteristic of Lynch to dis another director's efforts.

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colinr0380
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2020)

#127 Post by colinr0380 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:27 am

I must admit to loving Lynch's version of Dune (it is getting to the darker, colder nights time of year when it most benefits a re-watch too!), and the main issue of the huge exposition dump at the beginning of the film feeling as if we have entered the story at the half-way mark kind of falls away as an irrelevance over multiple re-viewings.

I will try to come to this with an open mind but I am also as much concerned with the score as the content in general. After saying "No Vangelis, no sale" with Blade Runner 2049, I am inclined to feel "No Toto, no sale" about this one too! Luckily after this I think Villeneuve is going to run out of 'classic early 1980s sci-fi films with iconic scores' to remake!

EDIT: Although having said that I cannot imagine Dune without the Toto score I should say that I do also very much enjoy the 1977 David Matthews funky disco opera take on Dune too! (Although it is incredibly 70s!)

In terms of the content I kind of bracket the Lynch film at least (not having yet read the books) in with Lawrence of Arabia. Partly the desert setting(!) but also the representative of colonial oppressors in some senses switching sides and leading a revolution against not just the most vile elements of oppression but the system in general that exploits the resources and indigenous population of the planet. Though there is always the sense that Paul, despite converting, is perhaps less benevolently speaking for the voiceless than another figure of oppression given his privileged position as a dispossessed and betrayed aristocrat parachuted into a figurehead role and that the plot feels less about revolutionary anarchy than about re-establishing stability and order anew, with a new cabal of a fresh generation in place. The spice/oil must flow indeed!
Last edited by colinr0380 on Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:23 am, edited 9 times in total.

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Dr Amicus
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2020)

#128 Post by Dr Amicus » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:44 am

I too have a soft spot for the Lynch, my last viewing being at a local museum screening it as part of a Sci-Fi season 3 years back which also made it my first viewing with an audience. It's an odd combination of narrative incoherence, taking ages to cover the opening and then rushing through 100s of pages in a sentence or two, and remarkable imagery. Oh, and Patrick Stewart charging into battle holding a small dog - which I'll be amazed if Villeneuve recreates this time with Josh Brolin.

Edit: 80s SF film with iconic score - I raise you Flash Gordon (go on Villeneuve - you know you want to!)

Always Points North
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2020)

#129 Post by Always Points North » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:37 am

It would have been ace if Gurney still had the dog tucked into his clothes the next time we saw him.


Peter-H
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2021)

#131 Post by Peter-H » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:00 pm

New trailer is out. I'm not a big fan of the dull color palette, it doesn't seem like a world I'd want to be in for the length of a whole movie. I don't know much about the book so maybe that's how the world of Dune is described, but personally I'm not a fan of everything being brown and grey.
Last edited by Peter-H on Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Finch
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2021)

#132 Post by Finch » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:12 pm

Like the first trailer, I find the scale impressive and everything else really boring. I'm not the target audience for this film since I don't find Herbert's story all that captivating, but half the cast doesn't feel like it belongs in a film like this. Rebecca Ferguson, Oscar Isaac and Stellan Skarsgaard feel right for their roles but Dave Bautista, Jason Momoa and Timothee Chalamet?

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2021)

#133 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:31 pm

Finch wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:12 pm
Like the first trailer, I find the scale impressive and everything else really boring. I'm not the target audience for this film since I don't find Herbert's story all that captivating, but half the cast doesn't feel like it belongs in a film like this. Rebecca Ferguson, Oscar Isaac and Stellan Skarsgaard feel right for their roles but Dave Bautista, Jason Momoa and Timothee Chalamet?
Agreed on all accounts. I also think Zendaya and Josh Brolin are inspired casting choices, and Brolin in particular looks like he moves beyond his baseline demeanor, which would have been fine for his character, to really grab onto the material with gusto. Since the project was announced, Rebecca Ferguson has been the key actor most perfectly fitting her role- though I'm also just so happy to watch her career take off so not impartial at all.

But yeah, I don't like the book, think the world-building is boring, and have little interest in this beyond spectacle. The first section of the book has some really cool smaller setpieces, so part one is worth seeing at least.

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feihong
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2021)

#134 Post by feihong » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:06 pm

Yikes, that trailer looks wretched. Say what you will about the Lynch film or the Jodorowsky attempt at filming it; both had a visual interest that has kept them very relevant. This new movie looks so dull, it's visuals look so bland––even the desert poshlust of the previous teaser is gone in most of the new footage. Like others, I'm not feeling the inspiration behind these casting choices. Oscar Isaac doesn't seem like Timothy Chalamet's father. Jason Momoa is a funny kind of movie presence, but these roles need serious acting to bring them across, and it doesn't look like that's what he's doing.

In terms of the books, I find the ideas contained in them interesting, and the execution to be very herky-jerky. But I think to make this material interesting, you need a visionary filmmaker willful enough to impose their own interests upon the material––you need somebody to add something to what Herbert provides, or it just won't work as a drama. This is where Jodorowsky's ability as a director to animate didactic material would have really added something to the movie. The Lynch film has appealing and interesting choices made throughout––captivating visuals, wild performances, unexpected casting, the Toto score. What it needed was a better script and about an hour's worth more material (though only if there was to be a better script).

This trailer makes the new movie seem like a faithful, and thus, an inanimate adaptation. I don't see any place where a visionary director is coming into this and breathing extra life into the film. Not yet, anyway.

Plus, I have to put in a word about the sandworm. It looks like an amazing design, covered in interesting textures for which we get varied views––but when it rears it's head, the cinematography is so incredibly dark it makes it impossible to make out the detail in the design. So much modern cinematography seems to be pushing for the lowest-light conditions it's possible to film in, like some cinematographic d*ck measuring contest for who can shoot the lowest exposure. And no matter who wins the contest, we––the viewers––are the losers. I find that shot so disappointing; I can hardly see anything.

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reaky
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2021)

#135 Post by reaky » Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:57 am

Same old faces, same old score, heavy on the slo-mo: this looks like Zach Snyder making a Marvel film. Which I suppose will work for some.

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Roscoe
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2021)

#136 Post by Roscoe » Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:35 am

I'd have forgiven it a lot more if they'd not had Josh Brolin's dour-faced Gurney Halleck say "I AM smiling!" -- come on folks. As with Mel Brooks' naming his SPACEBALLS villain Dark Helmet -- is that really the best you can come up with?

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Michael Kerpan
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2021)

#137 Post by Michael Kerpan » Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:56 am

These days my science fiction needs seem to be adequately served by anime... ;-)


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therewillbeblus
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2021)

#139 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:28 pm

Can't wait for the second film's poster's tagline to read "it ends"- never really thought of stories like that, first half is the beginning and second half is the ending

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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2021)

#140 Post by cdnchris » Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:37 pm

Occasionally there is a middle, too.

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soundchaser
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2021)

#141 Post by soundchaser » Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:42 pm

"It middles" doesn't quite roll off the tongue in the same way.

(Even if I suspect "middling" is a lot of what it'll be doing.)

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2021)

#142 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:45 pm

There's no middle in Dune. It's that intense

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domino harvey
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2021)

#143 Post by domino harvey » Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:10 pm

I mean, it’s lame, but it does indicate that WB is still anticipating funding the conclusion, which is still a bit of a question mark

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colinr0380
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2021)

#144 Post by colinr0380 » Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:23 pm

The second part is where you say "It Began... Now It Continues..."

It could have been worse, as I was expecting "Spice World: The Movie"

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Never Cursed
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2021)

#145 Post by Never Cursed » Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:55 pm

Reviews for this seem to be trending positive, with a bunch of trade raves and David Ehrlich as the only notable naysayer (truly an auspicious sign)

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The Fanciful Norwegian
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2021)

#146 Post by The Fanciful Norwegian » Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:52 pm

The trade reviews seem more mixed than that. Variety's is basically a shrug (despite being bafflingly headlined on the front page as "'Dune' Dazzles") and THR is solidly negative. The Wrap echoes a lot of the same criticisms but with a somewhat more positive spin. Empire, Screen, and Deadline are all-in.

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Never Cursed
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2021)

#147 Post by Never Cursed » Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:02 pm

Fair enough; Vanity Fair hated it even more than the publications you mention. It does seem like a lot of the most negative takes (Ehrlich included) are from people who don't much like Villeneuve in the first place, which is reassuring

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Persona
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2021)

#148 Post by Persona » Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:46 am

No wonder Villeneuve wants everyone in the theaters for this movie... even the raves make the movie sound like it'd be dull if viewed on a less-than-great home set up.

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Finch
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2021)

#149 Post by Finch » Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:13 pm

I wonder if Villeneuve asked WB to delay the film into the second half of 2022 so that it could have maximised its' box office for opening weekend at least and he was told no. With the boring trailers, the less than stellar reviews (and it needed pretty much unanimous positive notes to really make it a must see in theaters) AND the simultaneous home availability, I'd be astonished if Villeneuve ever gets to do a second part (never mind a third). Blade Runner 2049 opened under comparatively optimal circumstances and didn't set the box office alight, either.

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Finch
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Re: Dune (Denis Villeneuve, 2021)

#150 Post by Finch » Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:42 pm

Never Cursed wrote:
Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:02 pm
It does seem like a lot of the most negative takes (Ehrlich included) are from people who don't much like Villeneuve in the first place, which is reassuring
I don't know that it's as simple as that. I am admittedly biased against the book but I do like the two Villeneuve films that I have seen, and the trailers and the publicity images for his Dune do absolutely nothing for me. They do not make me want to see this in a theater never mind on a smaller TV screen. Heck, I find Lynch's film fascinating and occasionally even fun to watch (I like Wild at Heart less!) because his film is at least visually interesting and his cast is amazing. And who on earth thought it was a good idea to end on a character teasing of more things to come?

I was honestly for this film to positively surprise me with the trailers, not least because my husband wants to see it (if there is one upside to the Delta variant it's that he's likely going to give Dune a miss in theaters now and maybe get a HBO Max subscription instead). When this makes me go, I'd rather watch Lynch's film again than even giving this a try, Villeneuve has swung for the fences and missed.

When you have to rely on the impressionable critics that swoon over most Marvel products and Deadline's Pete Hammond, you are in trouble.

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