The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

[domino harvey]

A little less than two weeks remaining for this list. I've heard a lot of complaints from people who would contribute if it was a Top 25 rather than a Top 50... what if we did a 25 minimum and 50 maximum for this list (so you could submit a list of no less than 25 titles in ranked order but up to and including 50)? Would that goad some of the wallflowers into submitting?

[Michael Kerpan]

I might be able to come up with 25, I could try at least (whereas 50 would be hopeless).

[knives]

I’m okay with anything, but I’m also including a bunch of no budget Corman’s so I don’t have the exacting standard of some.

[Mr Sausage]

I’d be fine with that. I thought I loved this genre, but I had a hard time putting together a decent longlist.

[therewillbeblus]

Meanwhile I'm still trying to whittle mine down from 100, and I don't even love the genre

[Never Cursed]

I'd be happy for a variable list size, as I'm having trouble putting together a list of 50

[Dr Amicus]

I was happy with 50, but if a variable number allows more lists people are happy with than I have no objection.

[knives]

Just made my list and am firmly in TWBB territory having to make some hard cuts, I do wanted Starman to make it, and basically having to resort to casting aside quality toward the end and instead focus on which uses the genre in the most interesting way.


I have a lot of films not yet mentioned in the thread I will be writing up, but I must insist first on a little animated Canadian short called To Be which is a brief example of the merits in considering. It takes a very simple premise, man invents a teleportation machine, and it forces him into a classic existential situation told with humour and a sense of knowing. This should be a top priority for all. Go see it.

[therewillbeblus]

Miracle Mile (De Jarnatt 1988). (1st viewing) In a similar vein… (INCYDK) A guy in downtown L.A. picks up a call on a public pay phone and gets advance notice that nuclear war is going to launch in over an hour. This is such a wild ride. It starts off so unassumingly and innocently, and there’s a slight, darkly humorous vibe that persists along with the drama, the suspense and the unbelievably grim threat, not to mention the central romantic (almost rom-com) dimension. The film gets progressively more engrossing as it gets more daringly manic and plunges into more and more chaos. You’re never quite sure if it’s going to happen and

Spoiler

the fact that the film ends the way it does is really a disturbing shock given the hope we are allowed to have at some point that there has been a mistake, along with the way that ending completely subverts the typical romantic com-dram conventions. But the decision to end the film in such an uncompromising way gives it a shocking power.

The combination of all of those similar story elements and dissonant tones really evokes what Seeking a Friend for the End of the World later tries to achieve, but for me anyway this was a lot more effective.

I liked this a lot too, but I don't think it's shooting for anything similar to Seeking a Friend for the End of the World's aims, despite a few overlapping ideas. Miracle Mile has a mostly one-track route from light comedic romance into acute panic with the noose tightening as the adrenaline is fortified by the milieu's descent into chaos. It's a film about self-preservation where that preservation is of an advanced functioning, necessitating the incorporation of love for one couple- psychological states inclusive to higher meaning and values standing the test of a Hobbesian annihilation of social structures. Seeking a Friend for the End of the World, on the other hand, begins with the dark comedy of depression stemming from a failure to accept life circumstances, and remains at that simmering tempo, playing with the existentialist's bargain trying to find peace and make meaning given an empty, apathetic defensive psychological state rather than a heightened one.

Spoilers for both films

However, there are commonalities that exist in the ending- as well as differences that separate the films even farther apart. Both films are bittersweet- immensely tragic in physical fate and yet philosophically optimistic in connotative spirit. Miracle Mile's narrative is revolving around hanging on to, and trying to salvage, one's love against the current of the apocalypse, and ends with the lovers doing this while physically trapped yet free to declare their affections and not be alone in their final moments. Seeking a Friend for the End of the World's narrative revolves around regret and melancholia stemming from a refusal to access the tools of acceptance for one's current life on its terms, and the struggle is a therapeutic one that many of us endure outside of an apocalypse, only we often need intense circumstances to prompt change in attitude and behavior- here using the allegory of the world ending.

Miracle Mile was profoundly affecting as a roller-coaster ride of "what would I do if the apocalypse hit?" down to some really exciting and traumatizing setpieces and details, and it was one of the best depictions of what that crisis might actually feel like that I've seen on film. Seeking a Friend for the End of the World to me is therapy. It is recovery. It is using a narrative and iconography of apocalyptic sci-fi to translate a commentary on the challenges to achieve serene philosophy amidst a murky wasteland of psychological barriers. The final moments of both films are important and almost identical, but Miracle Mile significantly departs from the couple and leaves us with an actual explosion of the world ending. They're off alone having their moment and we are sitting, hearts racing, knowing the world just ended. We are offered reprieve from their keyed-up journey to objectively watch this all obliterated. Their final moments mattered but they also don't, as we are given a God's view into destruction. It's impressive and welcome, asking us to balance those two contradictory truths together- and this could sit in the dictionary next to the definition of "bittersweet."

Seeking a Friend for the End of the World ends with a subjective POV of a loved one's face. It is reality- it is the only reality that matters. The world ending is meaningless because it isn't experienced, and we are firmly planted in the soul of a person who has reached -and is holding onto- acceptance, is doing so for himself and for his loved one- and that consolation is God, it's love that is more powerful than any explosion that will not be experienced by these two. In that moment the film ends with a visualization of the meaning of life, and we soberly are attuned to it right with the characters. There is no room in this movie for a shot of an explosion to take us out of this state. That would be like disproving the meaning of life.

[Rayon Vert]

I definitely would like to submit my 50 but would be fine if the number can be variable.

[Michael Kerpan]

Time Bandits? SF or not?

[dustybooks]

I’m drafting my list and coming up just shy of fifty, so I’m open to the change.

I’m definitely voting for Time Bandits, Michael.

[senseabove]

I forget—do we do an orphan rescue round for Genre lists? Or is it a one and done?

I had completely given up on 50. I miiight be able to re/watch enough to cobble together 25 by the end of the orphan rescue round, though.

[Michael Kerpan]

Well, I'm up to 23 or so....

[Michael Kerpan]

Are finite mini-series telling a single story eligible? (say 12 or 12 episodes, 5-6 hours long).

[swo17]

I forget—do we do an orphan rescue round for Genre lists?

I'm the only one crazy enough to do that

[therewillbeblus]

Time Bandits? SF or not?

I'd need to rewatch that to see if there's anything beyond fantasy but I recall it being pretty squarely fantasy (please Michael or dustybooks, change my mind with the mention of something scientific- I'd be very open to cast another vote for it if there's compelling evidence). I'm probably going to leave stuff like The Lobster off because the dystopia is rooted in fantasy, and I've officially abandoned my Suvin-inspired Batman Returns listing since I don't want a Horror-list string of perversely-categorized orphans (unless anyone was persuaded on that one, though I doubt it)

[bottled spider]

I have a lot of films not yet mentioned in the thread I will be writing up, but I must insist first on a little animated Canadian short called To Be which is a brief example of the merits in considering. It takes a very simple premise, man invents a teleportation machine, and it forces him into a classic existential situation told with humour and a sense of knowing. This should be a top priority for all. Go see it.

This was good. I'll vote for it.

[dustybooks]

The first post states that any movie involving time travel is eligible by definition which is enough for me to think that Time Bandits qualifies.

[domino harvey]

Are finite mini-series telling a single story eligible? (say 12 or 12 episodes, 5-6 hours long).

Case by case basis for any where all installments are not directed by the same person. I think I made a call on several animes already (which I assume is what this is about), can someone find that for me?

[therewillbeblus]

Are finite mini-series telling a single story eligible? (say 12 or 12 episodes, 5-6 hours long).

Case by case basis for any where all installments are not directed by the same person. I think I made a call on several animes already (which I assume is what this is about), can someone find that for me?

Here

*Credit to knives' investigation linked on page 9

[Murdoch]

I’d be fine with that. I thought I loved this genre, but I had a hard time putting together a decent longlist.

This is where I'm at as well so 25 sounds good to me. I find I'm just pulling movies for the bottom half that I generally liked but would never make it on, say, my best of the decade list.

[Michael Kerpan]

Anime series often have both a series director who oversees (and has overall control) of everything -- and "episode directors" who control the specifics of a particular episode within the overall directives of the series director. Sometimes the series director will serve as "episode director" as well for some episodes -- but they are generally considered the auteur (so to speak) of the entire series. (Anyone wanting to see a reasonably realistic anime depiction of how anime is made should watch the absolutely wonderful Shirobako).

While I love Haibane Renmei, it does not feel any more science-fiction-ish to me than Kore'eda's After Life (one of its influences). Definitely feels more like fantasy. If this was officially a science fiction and fantasy film list, I'd put it near the top. Two other Yoshitoshi-Abe-connected shows are definitely science fiction and worthy of contention -- Serial Experiments Lain and Texhnolyze (a third, Niea_7, is also science fiction, and has some great parts, but is too uneven to make my list). Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is also science fiction, but is twice as long (and parts are only marginally science-fiction in their feel). (The movie continuation, The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya, is unquestionably science fiction). And Yet the Town Moves is another blend of comic slice of life story and serious (only barely averting tragedy) science fiction (the manga actually got awards as a science fiction work). Again, I'm not sure it has a high enough percent of science fiction to count for the list. Lull in the Sea (a favorite I just finished re-watching) seems on the border between fantasy and science fiction. Girls' Last Tour is almost surely science fiction - with the last two young women (and maybe last two people) on earth exploring a post-apocalyptic cityscape. Mushishi is an oddity. It is set very early in the 20th century -- and explores (and sometimes treats) problems caused by some sort of class of life forms that are presented quite matter of factly (not as fantasy). Two shows that are currently mid-way in their season could have possibly made my list (if the list process were to last for another 6 weeks instead of 2) are also fairly science fiction-ish -- Wonder Egg Priority and Otherside Picnic. Yuasa's Kaiba is fascinating in its own way -- but made in a visual style like antique shows such as Miyazaki's Future Boy Conan.

[Dr Amicus]

Not wanting to be that guy near the end of the project, there are a couple of TV mini-series which I would consider for my final list. I think one is probably fairly clear cut as OK, the other is pushing it a bit. Quatermass (1979) technically has a returning character, but was over 20 years after the previous run of Quatermass serials. It was also shot with the intention of releasing a film version of the material in some territories (as The Quatermass Conclusion - a cut I have never seen). It's flawed and was probably already dated by the time it made it into production, but it's vision of societal breakdown is powerfuly and a definite feature of much British SF of the 70s (even though Nigel Kneale himself was not a fan of SF). Pushing the definitions rather more is Torchwood: Children of Earth. On the one hand it is the third season of Torchwood's four and included returning characters. On the other hand, it's a self contained story with a single director over the 5 episodes and a single lead writer / showrunner (even if there were two other writers also on the show). It's the highpoint of Torchwood and indeed very Quatermass like in its treatment of alien threat.

Anyway, a handful of book recommendations from recent reading. Howard Hughes's Outer Limits is a decent overview of a wide range of SF cinema, but definitely sacrifices depth for breadth. Copies seem to be easily and cheaply available and it's certainly readable and worth a look. Bizarrely, Cronenberg is notable by his absence. A definite recommendation is Roz Kaveney's From Alien to the Matrix, which looks at a few films in rather more depth - her readings are always interesting and informed by a deep love and knowledge of the genre. It includes an excellent analysis of Galaxy Quest which seems a rare choice for close reading (along with more expected choices as highlighted by the title). Equally recommended, but more specialised perhaps, is Andrew M Butler's Solar Flares, which covers the whole genre over the 1970s, with an emphasis on the literature but also quite a bit on film and TV. This is part of Liverpool University Press's excellent series on SF which has much to offer for those with an interest in particular on the literary aspect of the genre.

[therewillbeblus]

The first post states that any movie involving time travel is eligible by definition which is enough for me to think that Time Bandits qualifies.

Oh, right, good point. For me it's so rooted in a child's fantasy tale that the time-travel feels like a superfluous narrative device to expand the bounds of that imaginative adventure, but you're right that it qualifies by the rules.