The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

[knives]

By now it should be clear that 99% of what I say is a stupid joke and everyone knows 99 becomes 100 with a top hat.

[colinr0380]

I think the third, especially with Harrelson’s performance, is the best of these new movies to be honest. It’s like a Laurie Anderson action movie.

I have not watched any of the Planet of the Apes remakes as yet but this inspired me to mention Harrelson's performance as a conspiracy theorist getting all of his wildest dreams come true managing to upstage a volcanic eruption (and more specifically his builder's bum getting brandished in the audience's face and undermining the grandeur somewhat!) in 2012.

[therewillbeblus]

By now it should be clear that 99% of what I say is a stupid joke and everyone knows 99 becomes 100 with a top hat.

I don't think your joke in this case was clear at all, and that's a weird assumption for members to make that when you, as a passionate and active poster, propose a reading on a film we should immediately take it as a joke- especially when you're not a stranger to these kinds of eccentric comparisons, often posited with sincerity. I can understand how your initial comment was a joke (I guess), but then you clarified with what appeared to be earnestness in the reply I quoted, and I find a hard time believing that everything was a gag. I mean, you explained you were joking, clarified the joke and then said this is what I think ("Though I do think the film is genuinely interested..."), and now you're saying that that was also a joke. But right, that should have been super clear to everyone.

[domino harvey]

I think you will find the old board adage, which far predates your membership here so you can be excused for not knowing it, that “knives is always wrong on the internet” helpful. Not literally of course (his track record is somewhat better than that), but useful to remember in times like this

[DarkImbecile]

I thought it was clear that everyone was joking because the second movie in the new Planet of the Apes trilogy is obviously the best

[knives]

(And what I was referring to)

I sincerely didn’t mean for my stupid bonmot to be taken as anything other then a stupid reference to the plot of the film and the statement you’ve focused in on wasn’t meant as an argument for 3’s superiority over 1, but an offhand thought that maybe the joke could be made to have deeper legs although personally I don’t think it’s a terribly interesting route to run at the moment.

Sorry if my approach to the board as a source of leisure caused any frustration which of course was not my intention. I’ll go back to my inane muttering about some movie in a fashion that has well earned its eye rolls now.

I thought it was clear that everyone was joking because the second movie in the new Planet of the Apes trilogy is obviously the best

I didn’t want to say it at the time, but I really love Dawn and think it’s a great character movie that’s willing to be very silly. Then again I genuinely adore all the movies in the series including Burton’s much derided film. See, I’m already back to being inane.

[therewillbeblus]

I think that's my main problem with Dawn - the willingness to be silly is out of rhythm with the others, which boldly decide to take the themes and characterizations very seriously and manage to succeed against all odds (thanks in large part to Serkis, who I agree with the champions at the time should have been nominated for Oscars for his role- convincing western audiences of his "humanity" through nonverbal means is no easy task). I do remember getting a kick out of Koba (I think?) manning (aping?) the machine gun on the back of the truck, but I didn't find that silly either- just awesome.

[knives]

I can see that. Looking at my original comments I don’t seem to have liked it as much as my memory holds. As for favorite silly moment it easily has to be the apes playing dumb for the humans on the spy mission.

[therewillbeblus]

My memory may also be clouded from expectations. I almost skipped Rise in theatres because I had no interest, and was blown away by how much I loved this humanistic prison film, devolving the 'human' part into a meditation on dignity and worth for all sentient beings. So I was thrilled for Dawn, and so disappointed that I didn't catch up with War until well after it was out on disc. Of course expectations were null for that, and I loved it. When I reflect on the content of each, I think the first and third are still miles better than the second, and on par with each other, but I can't ignore expectations as a crucial factor affecting my enjoyment of the films in the moment.

[Rayon Vert]

I do remember getting a kick out of Koba (I think?) manning (aping?) the machine gun on the back of the truck, but I didn't find that silly either- just awesome.

Yeah that was him. That sequence definitely had a video game feel about it.

I'll repeat what I said in my write-up that it's an entertaining film, just not very emotionally involving like the first.

[Rayon Vert]

Starman (Carpenter 1984). (revisit) I know I rented the VHS when it came out but I barely remembered anything about it, strangely enough. It’s a very likeable film and there’s not a lot to criticize. Carpenter hits the right tone, which can include touches of humor without taking away from the drama or the suspense. The film had the potential to be cheesy but both Bridges and Allen bring a nice believability to the performances, and the story is affecting while avoiding an excess of sentimentality.


Pitch Black (Twohy 2000). (revisit) Just noticed now after seeing the film that it’s got a recent thread in the Arrow forum. I saw this not in the most optimal viewing conditions originally and remembered liking it more than I would have expected so decided to give it another chance after seeing it mentioned in an underrated sci-fi list or two. (I didn’t even know it was connected to the later Riddick films until I read the Wiki page.) The setup about landing on a strange planet because of spaceship damage and confronting deadly creatures upon arrival is unoriginal to say the least (and aren’t people in these films just so lucky every time they land on a planet where there just happens to be oxygen and temperatures perfectly adapted to human survival?). But as an action movie it not only delivers its fair amount of kicks but the script features more interesting human dynamics and dialogue than you would expect. I guess I can understand the cult status in part because of the unflinching grimness in the story. For my tastes, I didn’t need to see this (again) but it’s decent enough.



The Face of Another (Teshigahara 1966). (1st viewing) Some superficial resemblances with the Frankenheimer film of the same year but on a deeper level they’re also both meditations on identity and investigate the fantasy of complete freedom through anonymous self-remaking (manifested here in Dr. Hira’s verbalizations about the aspirations behind his experiment). This had a strong dark fairy tale feeling about it, a hypnotic pull and it really builds to intense, memorable scenes in the second half. The parallel story of the young disfigured woman is also quite beautiful and haunting.


Upstream Color (Carruth 2013). (1st viewing) I’m falling in with whatever minority crowd admires the filmmaking technique and the beauty here but wished ultimately I could have found just a little more story intelligibility by the end (e.g. who are the thief, the sampler, etc.). It’s a bit frustrating because there was a lot to like in the setup, and the whole huge middle section of the establishing and development of the relationship especially. In terms of enjoying it on the level of a more purely sensual, evocative, non-narrative experience, I would have needed the inclusion of some lengthier shots rather than the quick cutting that never really relents. I’m guessing that’s part of creating an intended mood of agitation but I was getting a little bit impatient with the film at the end because of the combination of that unrelenting editing style and the level of narrative abstraction. A rewatch at another time could perhaps yield another result.


Another Earth (Cahill 2011). (1st viewing) Yeah this was a special film. In the same way there’s two Earths the two stories here, until they meet, are completely engrossing each on their own. It works so strongly as a psychological drama that you forget at times there’s that sci-fi dimension also going on. I disliked Brit Marling’s character so much in Sound of My Voice it limited my appreciation of her as an actress, but I definitely get it here (I see both films premiered on the same day at the Sundance Film Festival btw) - she’s a large part of what this a very soulful journey. In terms of the sci-fi bit, it’s a bit strange that the “discovered” new Earth is suddenly quite visible in the sky, and the film never addresses that - which I can nevertheless accept as chalking it up to the poetic rather than completely literal feeling the film is reaching for). The fact that it appears bigger every time we see it makes it seems like maybe it’s a question of separate dimensions rather than an actual planet to journey to, but again I’m raising another point that is not really where the film’s heart and mission lies.


Solaris (Tarkovsky 1972). (revisit) This is such a gorgeous film and impressive in its creating a sustained sense of transcendent mystery, that reaches epic proportions at the end. There are moments where the interactions with the Hari manifestion start to feel a little drawn-out, but in the end they do powerfully create a sense of Kris’s painfully coming to emotional life again. The filming of the natural world at both ends of the film, the recurrent grumbling of the Solaris ocean, the Bach, the exquisite cinematic inhabiting of the Bruegel painting, so much immersive atmosphere and beauty to luxuriate in.

[domino harvey]

(I see both films premiered on the same day at the Sundance Film Festival btw)

The films were both conceived at the same time as well. Marling rented a house with the two directors and split her days writing with each for half the day. As I recall they even lived on different floors to help her separate one project from the other in a spatial way

[therewillbeblus]

I think I said it in the Horror thread, but Upstream Color works for me a lot better on rewatches as I accepted that this confusion is essentially a form of existential poison that's puncturing our bearings of scientific order in consciousness. I actually hated the movie the first time I saw it and it took years to revisit, but now I find its approach to the horrors of ungroundedness to be expertly orchestrated - while Primer, which I previously loved enough to prompt me to return to UC multiple times, sheds residual interest on what were once impressive facets each time I see it.

Also, not sure if you've seen Soderbergh's Solaris, but I think it's a better- albeit different- film, and will probably be near the top of my list (though both will make the upper tiers).

[Rayon Vert]

I haven't seen the Soderbergh partially purposefully because I'm not too keen on seeing remakes of films I love and admire so much, and a bit against it on principle, however arguably short-sighted that is! (And thanks for sharing your journey with UC - I'll keep that in mind.)

[therewillbeblus]

I'm not one to rush to remakes either, but Soderbergh's is more of a recontextualization that cuts the film in half and still retains similar themes and feelings but from different angles, and using different applications of the medium. Many here have said the films complement each other, and I agree- and would argue that the 2002 film gives more of a subjective edge of personal truth that hits me in a deeper emotional place. Anyways, I'd highly advise you to break that rule on this occasion, and either way here's my writeup of the Soderbergh that does some comparing of the two:

Revisiting this only cements how much I love this retelling of Tarkovsky's film. Soderbergh brings his narrative expertise in succinct and incisive details by way of masterful editing and skills that extract the strongest emotions effortlessly. I love the original but turning that into a brisk 90 minutes is a seemingly impossible feat, especially when this feels just as meditative and never rushed. Clooney's despair and psychological transformations, as well as McElhone's own cascading emotional expressiveness, form a union of isolative ennui and connective empathy even more alive and powerful in a similar sterile philosophical space, that disclose an opening of surging self-reflection and identity development in the viewer. Looking back over this thread I agree with John Cope, zedz, and domino especially in that this and the first film complement one another in a way that I can't imagine at least this film without that one as a foundation, but that amplified this one's effectiveness perhaps even passed that already-perfect film. I love both to death, but Soderbergh's audacity to birth this one into existence tweaking the exact right parts to deafen the same (and some different- that score..) senses in deeper, profound ways, is just extraordinary.

The flashbacks are crucial, fulfilling the nostalgic pain the first film questions, but delving deeper into memory as the most significant schema by which we assess our lives through philosophy. The areas of memory and authenticity are terrific complements for one another, and this film audaciously yet transparently asks whether the significance in memory is objectively authentic while surrendering to subjective authenticity as the overwhelming priority is perhaps all that really matters when the unnecessary fat of reality is stripped away. The present as a representation of that faulty memory though elicits a question of one's own doubt in not just emotional intelligence but philosophical equilibrium, and the surrender here, as opposed to memory, necessitates both parties coexisting in unity, which resurfaces the truths of the relationship we may bury in memory- with some selective memories popping up triggered by what may be artificial but is undoubtedly truth in its emotional power. The further complication that is so well executed in this version is if this connection is possible to sustain, or if impermanence should be accepted with gratitude or rejected with sadness, and the realism of all of these thoughts and feelings coexisting simultaneously in a complex whirlpool of humanity affirmed. The deliverance of that idea from the intellectual to drown in the depths of emotional validation finds euphoria of this blend of pain and serenity that only memory achieves.

All of this is intricately edited with the macro-intellectual conversations on consciousness and authenticity, and critically projects atheism as a form of close-minded egotism rather than submission through humility to find that peripheral and intrinsic truth of sentiment and spirit; eventually reaching a heartening place that finds the balance of humble inquiry into the marrow of cosmic containment. The third act exposition of one’s perceived identity as hinged on their soul mate to be born from artifice to wholeness is rightfully expressed as a crisis rather than muted solemnity in the first film, which of course carries its own unique intensity even if this feels more personally effecting in its allegorical exploration toward acceptance. The spiritual exaltation of perspective by way of individualized perception of meaning through signified memory is all that's left when all is said and done, and there is something incredibly moving about that definition of reality rooted in subjective significance, as well as the submission to the truth that self-consciousness, in all its pain and doubt, is healthy and the secret ingredient to self-forgiveness and finding meaning in life. The very end's position on objectivity as trivial and hollow in relation to the subjective experience is conceived better here by meditating on that personal catharsis, without the pan-out that takes an objective lens thereby somewhat diluting the impact in the original, instead cross-cutting with the planet without that exploitative continuity, driving home the optimistic impact in step with the final thematic plunge. This sentence is said often by myself and others but this is one of Soderbergh's very best films, and there are select moments that are more existentially touching than any film I can think of off hand.

[Rayon Vert]

Them! (Douglas 1954). (revisit) Special effects aren’t great in terms of the giant ants but it’s pretty solid (if unspectacular) in terms of suspense and execution, and the quality of the actors is better than usual for a 50s sci-fi B film. Given the politics of the era, it’s hard not to see the collectivist ants and the potential for the takeover of the county as another metaphor for communist threat (the film’s title too), and it ends in a military operation of course.


Alien 3 (Fincher 1992). (revisit) After enjoying the director’s cut of the Cameron film, I thought of watching the special edition for this one, reading that the 30-minute longer version goes some way towards re-establishing Fincher’s vision, even featuring alternate plot points. I didn’t remember this one well having only seen it the once and boy does it start depressingly right from the start, completely destroying all of the hard-won victories of the previous film in its opening scene! Overall a reasonably good story here and an intriguing setting with not too many dumb moments. The trouble is of course that there’s nothing terribly new here either, and also the action-heavy last half is basically a lot of people running around in tunnels - which come to think of it was a lot of Aliens too (!), but not done nearly as well this time. And while the setting itself is grim, there isn’t nearly the same amount of fear evoked (never mind terror), perhaps in part due to there being a single, less impressive creature and just in general o more mystery involved. Also a bit weird when you suddenly realize how all of the residents of this planet/prison (except Charles S. Dutton) speak British as opposed to American English, with no explanation provided. A bit better than I remembered and/or the theatrical cut I initially saw, but overall just decent.


Late August at the Hotel Ozone (Schmidt 1967). (1st viewing) Czech New Wave take on a post-nuclear war scenario where most everyone has died, especially after a generation’s lapse of time, and I gather especially the men. We follow an older woman with a group of younger women rummaging in the mountains for old canned food and shooting the animals they come across, until they eventually discover an old man living alone, the first one the younger women have ever seen. A grim, ultra-realistic, objectively distanced portrait of the consequences of such a scenario where the emphasis is on the return to barbarism of the unguided youth: no knowledge, no culture, no manners and ultimately no future. You wonder if it’s commentary on something else, like the hippies (they’ll kill for a gramophone). Sets a mood but then it’s kind of hitting a single note throughout and it takes more than half the running-time to meet the old man, so much of it is a kind of animals-in-the-wild documentary!


Cloud Atlas (Wachowskis & Tykwer 2012). (1st viewing) This fits more within the fantasy genre, but has two stories in a sci-fi setting, which explains the tag it gets some places. This was a lot like Mr. Nobody: extremely ambitious, extremely long, and constantly jumping back and forth between the storylines. This doesn’t really work and suffers from the same flaws that result from those things, but it’s definitely more tolerable and less headache-inducing than the Van Dormael film. The Blade Runner-ish Neo-Seoul and the 70s stories were the better pieces, but all of them had moments of interest. Not enough though to make you really care about them or the characters, never mind how it all fits in together, and the bombast of the overall, somewhat trite spiritual frame gets wearisome by the end. Finally the blend of broad comedy and serious drama isn’t necessarily problematic in itself but it does add to the messy feel of the whole endeavor. OK for a watch, but I wouldn’t care to go through it again.


I Origins (Cahill 2014). (1st viewing) Technically I guess it qualifies as sci-fi but overall it’s more of a spiritual/metaphysical fantasy film like Cloud Atlas is. I have to agree with TW that this is significantly lesser than Another Earth. I had a bit of a problem with the thinness of the instantaneous romance between Ian and Sofi, and Michael Pitt isn’t very appealing as an actor here, but there is an intriguing mystery to the plot originally and of course there’s some power in that shocking event you don’t see coming. By the time we start having a feel for what’s behind the mystery, though, the film just suddenly devolves into a rote paint-by-numbers investigation that predictably confirms what’s already evident for the viewer by that point and for me killed most of the interest. Disappointing.


Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Wise 1979). (1st viewing) It didn’t start off too promisingly, especially with some cheesy effects and matte paintings that are definitely not on par with what Lucas was doing at the time, although those were only a problem very early on and in fact the visual imaginings themselves later on got fairly interesting, even if a little 2001-derivative. As it went on the film as a whole got better and for the reasons Mr. Sausage listed early on, the sense of awesomeness of size and scope confronted in this energy cloud of super intelligence that is the enemy, and how that helps create a feeling of absolute menace. You also have to admire the film for wanting to go so far in terms of philosophical ideas and ambitions, even if the final result is an odd mixture of profundity and silliness.

[therewillbeblus]

I haven't seen Cloud Atlas since theatres, but while it's far from great, Tom Hanks' repetitive against-type casting throughout the whole film is an incredibly self-aware and fun in-joke and one I think about often with amusement

[The Pachyderminator]

Cloud Atlas will be on my list for sure - a likely orphan, but I can't leave it out. Its ambition is unique enough, despite notable flaws in execution, that I consider it very important as an experiment in storytelling and a reminder of how much wider the range of possibility is, even in mainstream pop cinema, than we usually think.

[Michael Kerpan]

Pachyderminator -- If I made a list, I'd probably include Cloud Atlas, but I don't know that I have enough science fiction films I love enough to make a list.

[The Pachyderminator]

Pachyderminator -- If I made a list, I'd probably include Cloud Atlas, but I don't know that I have enough science fiction films I love enough to make a list.

Honestly that's where I am too, but I hope to be able to produce a good list by the end of February.

[Rayon Vert]

It's a genre where some of the best really are among my favorite films in general, but it's hard to come up with a list of 50 good ones unless you've seen a lot of them - which wasn't my case before I started on this project. I could pick 25 but then there was a big fall off in quality. Right now with just over 90 films watched so far for this project, my top 40 or so I'm very satisfied with. Hopefully by the end of the project my list will be filled with films I'm unhesitatingly fond of.

[Michael Kerpan]

Not a chance I can come up with 50 I actually like a whole lot, alas.

[therewillbeblus]

This isn’t one of my favorite genres, but I actually think the new millennium has given us some of the genre’s best work, and I encourage those looking at the classics to delve into the lesser known gems of recent. Looking at my current draft, 70% of my list was released after 2000, and I definitely wouldn’t be able to come up with a list of 50 by scouting top google search lists on the Internet. Not that I’m suggesting that’s what folks are doing to compile watch lists, but I’m using myself as an example when I started considering films for this project before I recalled how many indie films qualify without being obvious contenders.

Also worth a reminder that anthology series count (as do some animes that are assembled as long narrative films, Michael*)

[Michael Kerpan]

TWB -- I'd have to include things I feel only so-so -- and I still probably wouldn't make it to 50. Too much work to struggle -- and I'd just generate a bunch of orphans. I could have swung 25....

[bottled spider]

Late August at the Hotel Ozone (Schmidt 1967). (1st viewing) Czech New Wave take on a post-nuclear war scenario where most everyone has died, especially after a generation’s lapse of time, and I gather especially the men. We follow an older woman with a group of younger women rummaging in the mountains for old canned food and shooting the animals they come across, until they eventually discover an old man living alone, the first one the younger women have ever seen. A grim, ultra-realistic, objectively distanced portrait of the consequences of such a scenario where the emphasis is on the return to barbarism of the unguided youth: no knowledge, no culture, no manners and ultimately no future. You wonder if it’s commentary on something else, like the hippies (they’ll kill for a gramophone). Sets a mood but then it’s kind of hitting a single note throughout and it takes more than half the running-time to meet the old man, so much of it is a kind of animals-in-the-wild documentary!

I've seen this three or four times, but not recently. I don't remember if there were extras on the Facets disc, but I seem to remember reading or hearing somewhere that according to Schmidt this was a lament for the generation of Czechs growing up under Soviet occupation, largely deprived of culture, national identity, or connection to history. I didn't rate this very highly the first time I saw it, but grew to love it on subsequent viewings. I find it moving (though I agree with the description distanced), especially the moment

Spoiler

when the matriarch realizes the chalk markings she thought were signs of other people were made by one of the girls.

I liked that entire scene of the girls exploring the ruined church, which has some of the same appeal as Brakhage's black-and-white silent Unglassed Windows Cast a Terrible Reflection

Solar Walk (Reka Bucsi, 2018). Undialogued animated short. Winner of the Grand Prize at the New Chitose Airport International Animation Festival! Cosmic. Trippy. Not my sort of thing, but appears to be well regarded on IMDb and Letterboxd. Available on Vimeo On Demand, trailer here.

I haven't been enjoying this project as much as other lists. So far I've seen a higher than usual proportion of movies I actively disliked or found just OK. The discoveries I've most enjoyed are the Hertzfeldt World of Tomorrow trilogy, the Canadian Possible Worlds (Lepage, 2000) with Tilda Swinton, and the old Ealing comedy The Man in the White Suit. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind has been one of the most gratifying revisits. Old favourites are Marker's La Jetée, Cuarón's Children of Men, Bortko's Heart of a Dog, and the aforementioned Late August at the Hotel Ozone. I will submit a list for sure, but it might end up including a lot of entries I only consider so-so.