The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

[bamwc2]

What are your thoughts of Body Parts (1991)?

It came out when I was 11, and my parents let me rent whatever I wanted so long as they didn't think there'd be any boobs in it. I remember thinking it was quite dumb at that young age, but have no idea how I'd respond today. It was my introduction to the cinematic works of Jeff Fahey, along with next years The Lawnmower Man. I pretty much forgot about him after that until the end of the decade when Trey Parker and Matt Stone told Dennis Miller a story on his HBO show about intentionally farting on Fahey at a restaurant. That's my thoughts on it.

[therewillbeblus]

Fahey is in a film within my own provisional top ten, and if serial TV shows counted maybe two

[domino harvey]

Planet Terror? The man likes his BBQ sauce

[therewillbeblus]

Yep, and his eureka moment of discovering the secret ingredient is the kind of culinary science fiction I eat up

[bamwc2]

Fahey is in a film within my own provisional top ten, and if serial TV shows counted maybe two

Does that second clause refer to Lost? That was my show back in the day, dawg!

[therewillbeblus]

Yeah, and same. I can understand the flack, but it's still terrific sci-fi and no cliffhanger can beat season 3's, which still gives me chills remembering how gobsmacked I was by the reveal. Also, aside from maybe Twin Peaks: The Return, I can't think of any other show where I spent a sizable chunk of the week theorizing with friends for hours on end between eps, and we turned our college apt into stadium seating and hosted gatherings for the final season, with hard rules of dead silence during the action and explosions of ranting, raving, analysis during commercial breaks. I didn't mind the ending either that the whole world hated either, but I just generally have very fond memories of the community I was with during those formative years and the show was a part of that experience.

[therewillbeblus]

I can’t believe I left this gem off my provisional list:

The Brother From Another Planet

If science fiction is often at its most useful for providing a creative lens to glance at our own world, look no further than this expositional study on how racism, classism, and overall social segregation operates in Reagan’s urban America. Sayles’ choice to mute his marginalized hero is a statement all by itself, though this choice also makes for some strong silent gags to infuse a commentary with comedic touches that are soft and bittersweet as they emphasize exclusion and isolation, reaching an absurdist examination by proxy. The bite, when it emerges at all, is subtle; and Sayles’ tone here isn’t overwhelmingly comedy, drama, sci-fi, or any specific genre, but rather uses all of these ingredients to paint a steady portrait of life for the underrepresented with unconditional empathy.

I love little touches of fight/flight conditioning for Morton like when he sees the police badge and instinctually runs, historical trauma triggering all people of color walking the streets of America. Sayles gently deconstructs film history too, deliberately playing into and subsequently thwarting the magical negro trope by giving us a magical black protagonist who serves as observer, a curious participant rather than fixer, best exemplified by the heroin scene where instead of saving a dead kid he tries the drug himself. He is shown to be capable of curing, and does, but his humanity persists in existentialist wandering as a priority just like ours.

A scene like Sayles and Strathairn as aliens entering the black bar for the first time is both quietly hilarious from their mannerisms and the situational incongruity of white people entering a black space confused and entitled, where their alien nature mirrors as an accurate reading of the racial divide, and also disgusting for the same reasons. Though even these musings on ideas exist without the need to shift the mood of a scene, as Sayles trusts his audience to draw their own readings in refusing to hold anyone’s hand or lead us in a direction of how we’re supposed to feel. The film is like a harmonious tone poem diluted of the extremes often found within tonal exercises, where the exposition is meditative and the eclecticism is faint enough to amuse modestly and leave ample room for us to breathe. The space to plant ourselves in a milieu we may recognize more than we’d like to peels back some onion layers in the silence that responds to the noise.

The two white guys who talk about being in town for a “self-actualization conference” is grating satire, but it’s Morton’s use of silence that serves as a sounding board for their own dissections of microaggressions and biases. The film doesn’t ask whether it’s okay or not that the black man is silent here so white men can self-actualize, because their self-gratification and ability to shrug off the conversation and final extreme microaggression as they exit is enough to show that this isn’t about their resolve. The movie itself is a sounding board that exists, thinks and feels. Morton examining his own cut on his hand after a stickup, ponders on a wound as a truth, and that’s plenty to elicit as many connotations as we can drum up, which is a lot but most of all the film is about the act of feeling and how experience matters, even if it’s not our own. The lens we see the environment through is so objective that it begets subjective intimacy, that is both dense and ephemeral.

Sayles is a great filmmaker, who has made many excellent, sensitive films, but this is my favorite. It's his most empathic and humble work, and his ability to infuse the screen with this much life with such minimal intervention is the most uniquely impressive aspect of a near-perfect original masterpiece.

[L.A.]

Everyone, thanks for your opinions regarding Body Parts and Jeff Fahey. Mr. Fahey was asked by Shout Factory to participate in the extras department for the Blu-ray of BP that came out earlier this year but for some reason he declined. This got me thinking whether the film is worth it or not but since he is a cool dude might as well give it a try.

DiabolikDVD has a sale on select Garagehouse Pictures titles including Foes (1977) which I am not familiar with but decided to order it. Sounds hostile which is a plus. And speaking of hostility, I just remembered Enemy Mine (1985) and Alien Nation (1988) that I haven’t seen for a long time, have to revisit both.

[domino harvey]

Fahey popped up recently in the eligible for this list Alita as the dog lover, so I assume he’s in Rodriguez’ stable of actors like Danny Trejo

In other news, I guess La vie lointaine is as eligible for this list as it was horror, though I’m not sure it belongs to any one recognizable genre as we know them on Planet Earth. Maybe those with the ability to access to back channels to see it actually will this time

[colinr0380]

He is also among the supporting cast in the otherwise unmemorable 2013 TV movie Rewind, which is another entry in that trend of the last few years of television being fascinated with using time travel to combat terrorists (Timeless was the one that got a lot of play on UK television around the same time, but the only thing it inspired me to do was go and pick up the 1960s Time Tunnel series on Blu-ray!). Although Fahey's presence as your usual 'crazy inventor person who may actually be the sanest of all' role rather takes second billing to David Cronenberg turning up for an acting cameo in the opening scene as the unrepentant terrorist who everyone has to go back in time and foil! It is nice to see him relishing his role even if Jason X is still the funnier cameo!

Plus Kenneth Welsh (Windom Earle in season 2 of Twin Peaks) gets to play the President, which if the Cronenberg cameo had not already given it away immediately pegs Rewind as a filmed in Canada production!

(Checking on imbd Rewind was directed by Jack Bender who has the single major feature film credit of Child's Play 3, but also directed numerous episodes of Lost and Alias, as well as Under The Dome and the latest series based on Stephen King books in Mr Mercedes and The Institute)

My recommendation for 'time travelling shenanigans' probably has to go to Millennium (from the director of Logan's Run and The Dam Busters!) which probably would not hold up going back to watch now but still features the unforgettably neat premise of a future society in need of people to boost its population targeting those people from the past who are about to inevitably die (such as in plane crashes), replacing them in their seats with crash test dummies to (poorly) try to fool the crash scene investigators, and spiriting them off to a new life!

[therewillbeblus]

In other news, I guess La vie lointaine is as eligible for this list as it was horror, though I’m not sure it belongs to any one recognizable genre as we know them on Planet Earth. Maybe those with the ability to access to back channels to see it actually will this time

Wasn't even thinking about it, but now I feel obligated to include it again just in the hope others who can will seek it out.

I didn't campaign for it in the Horror list (and only thought of it last-minute before deadline) but I'm going to throw out a reminder that Twin Peaks: The Return qualifies and, in my opinion, is very much in the spirit of the list. I know people like to define Lynch as his own genre, which is fine, but while the original series was more rooted in fantasy, this long film uses plenty of firmly science-fiction devices to serve its narrative structure and thematic interests in coping with the unknown and trying to reverse trauma, harm, and evil. I suspect it'll wind up orphaned alongside Mauvais Sang and Batman Returns though for being too obscure to classify by genre.

[senseabove]

I'm due for a rewatch, but I remember loving Mauvais Sang years ago. I'd be surprised if it's not on my list...

And on the subject of movies that are Technically sci-fi and the previous subject of Sci-Fi musicals, I was delighted to realize the other day that Tsai's The Hole could qualify, since it's central conceit is a plague that makes people behave like cockroaches.

Re: Twin Peaks, we probably need a TV or Movie ruling on that one... Will the Trekkies among us mutiny if that one's permitted?

[therewillbeblus]

I think the issue with Mauvais Sang will come down to how members view the sci-fi specifically working thematically into the plot. It's arguably a sidetracked detail in favor of a nouvelle vague-esque expressionistic romance (all of Carax's first three feature films, but especially this and The Lovers on the Bridge, feel like musicals in spirit more than anything else, though I chalk that up to his mastery in exercising all the possibilities of the medium for maximum effect- your own spot-on reading of Ema as a musical would be a good comparison, even if they're functioning differently). However, I'm still leaning towards counting it, as I mentioned briefly somewhere a few pages back..

The science fiction premise may take a back seat on the narrative front, but drives the stakes for love’s overwhelming intimacy that makes each union an existential battlefield of life-or-death, and elevates the importance of emotions into otherworldly space. Love becomes the only worthwhile drug, and one of pure truth and meaning in an otherwise compromised world.

Still, the literal science-fiction only jumpstarts the more abstract ideas similar to Batman Returns so if people are willing to give some rope, hopefully I'll get a recruit for that one as well!

As far as Twin Peaks: The Return is concerned, I believe this forum counts it as a long film similarly to Maniac, The Young Pope, etc. on the rule of isolated series functioning as a long movie with a single director. I'm pretty sure Lynch has also gone on record saying it was conceived as a long film off of one long script. The Twin Peaks show would certainly not count, though I think when I first started browsing this forum I came across an absurd back-and-forth between users and mods where some folks were trying to include it on list projects despite the rules, which was a funny attempt at a one or two man mutiny in hindsight.

[domino harvey]

If swo considers it a film for the decades list, I’ll consider it one for this. Otherwise it’s a TV show, which is my inclination of classification

[therewillbeblus]

Are you going to consider Maniac as a TV show then when making your own list, or a film?

[domino harvey]

I haven’t seen TPTR, so I can’t make a proper judgment call. Miniseries are always eligible, but doesn’t that have 19 episodes? That seems like a season of television. But I haven’t seen it so I can’t know for sure. I’m open to it. Maniac is a six hour movie, it’s def eligible

[swo17]

I'm calling any season of a TV show eligible if all episodes shared the same director

[therewillbeblus]

Yeah I guess I wouldn't go by episode count (I mean The Young Pope is ten, so setting a cap feels arbitrary for one story) though I can see why you'd think so, especially if basing on the original series, which definitely follows the TV show formula more explicitly. I really do think Twin Peaks: The Return is more of a long movie conceptually than a tv series, despite airing on tv week to week (though of course it's not the film's fault it debuted on Showtime v Netflix), and it's not one of those cases of a fan trying to tack on a favorite to whatever list project possible, not that anyone's suggesting as much! I'm definitely committed to following the spirit of the list, so as much as I'd selfishly love to argue a show like Patrick McGoohan's The Prisoner to count as a long film for this project (even though it obviously doesn't meet criteria on director anyways), where it would place high, its episodic structure prohibits me from doing so more than the director-contingent auteur principle. TPTR is a wild ride of a science-fiction movie though, and is definitely isolated from the original series tonally as well!

[Roger Ryan]

I haven’t seen TPTR, so I can’t make a proper judgment call. Miniseries are always eligible, but doesn’t that have 19 episodes? That seems like a season of television. But I haven’t seen it so I can’t know for sure. I’m open to it. Maniac is a six hour movie, it’s def eligible

I'll throw in my hat as well and say that Twin Peaks: The Return plays just like Maniac in that there is no discernible episodic structure to the episodes. The one caveat is that Lynch includes a musical performance at each hour mark to arbitrarily let the viewer know that the episode is coming to an end. If you removed these interstitial performances, you would never be able to tell where one episode ends and another begins.

[therewillbeblus]

Or to look at it another way, Lynch is also making a musical with numbers interspersed every hour or so, making it eligible for the next list project too

[knives]

Actually no because those pieces are diagetic and those ileligible for the next list.

[therewillbeblus]

I know, I was joking

[zedz]

I'm due for a rewatch, but I remember loving Mauvais Sang years ago. I'd be surprised if it's not on my list...

And on the subject of movies that are Technically sci-fi and the previous subject of Sci-Fi musicals, I was delighted to realize the other day that Tsai's The Hole could qualify, since it's central conceit is a plague that makes people behave like cockroaches.

And it was, as part of the '2000 Seen By' series, set in the future (barely) when it was released.

[domino harvey]

Re: Twin Peaks, we probably need a TV or Movie ruling on that one... Will the Trekkies among us mutiny if that one's permitted?

This is of course one of the problems of even big lists with generous submission allowances like this: we have to exclude some of the finest examples of filmed sci-fi because they don’t meet obvious perimeters of a film ranking project. All of the assorted Star Trek series, the X Files, etc. And I’m directly sympathetic: There’s no doubt the series as a whole of Fringe would be in my top five, or at the very least the episode I suspect everyone who’s seen the series would single out as the best, the somewhat standalone White Tulip, would make it if there was a logical back door. But while anthology series’ stand alones have a kind of short film logic to their inclusion, we have to take a pass on things that don’t but still make their absence felt. It’s not a perfect system, but this is why lists are dumb in general and it’s best to just treat these as viewing projects!

That said, to confirm, you can vote for Twin Peaks: the Return

[therewillbeblus]

Yeah I would've voted for Home, the infamous X-Files episode that's a standalone, for the horror list if I could have. Now that Star Trek is on my mind, I'm tempted to revisit my personal favorite of the movies, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock to see how it holds up.

And with that nth reminder that I should probably get to Fringe one of these days, I'm tempted to just blind-buy the series