Kino Lorber Studio Classics

[EddieLarkin]

Not so much to do with the HDR grade itself, but the fact it was mastered with a very low average light level, probably the lowest one seen on a UHD so far, which is not a problem in and of itself, but is when TVs designed to expect HDR to be an eye singeing light show apply a tone map to the image. Essentially, a typical UHD is mastered in HDR with a light level far in excess of what TVs (and even more so projectors) are capable of producing, meaning the image has to be mapped down to what the TV is capable of. Do this to a disc like Goodfellas and you're turning an already dim image dimmer still. This is why the problem is excerbated further on a low nit display device like a projector, because the tone map is more aggressive.

On my OLED in a completely light controlled room it looks stupendous. Whilst there isn't really any HDR zing (which presumably and hopefully was avoided at the filmmakers' request), shadow detail is much improved over the new Blu-ray, which at the time of release was criticised in comparison to the old Blu-ray as having heavy black crush. The UHD takes the same 4K transfer and brings loads of extra information out of these dark areas. Colours too are more balanced compared to the more saturated Blu-ray, and there is a lushness to the grain field you just don't get in 1080p.

[nitin]

Yeah Goodfellas UHD looks really good on a setup that properly tone maps.

[diamonds]

Would like to express disappointment with Kino's subtitle translation on Touchez pas au Grisbi and perhaps warn people away from the disc. Popped it in last night and knew almost immediately something was wrong; the dialog is often stripped of nuance and doesn't really flow. I did my best to transcribe a few examples from the opening scene in Madame Bouche's restaurant and compare them to the existing translation from Criterion.

Two of Josy's lines:

Spoiler

Kino: "Come along. You'll enjoy it. Isn't that so Riton? It's a first class show."
vs.
Criterion: "Come see us, Max. You won't be sorry. It was obvious during rehearsals. It's our best show yet."

--

Kino: "You must come, Max. Lola in the 2nd number will be a riot."
vs.
Criterion: "You gotta come, Max. Lola's a mermaid in the second number. It'll give the johns heart failure."

It's clear any stylization or nuance in the dialog is gone in Kino's, and you can tell while you're watching just by the length of time Jeanne Moreau speaks that she's saying more than what Kino provides.

This is the exchange between Madame Bouche and the group of interlopers that briefly enter the restaurant:

Spoiler

Kino:

Interlopers: Do we get any service? We want to eat.
Bouche: Sorry, no more room.
I: And those tables...
B: Reserved.
I: We'll have a drink while we are waiting.
B: Better go across the road. They do you well. Just over there, see? You'll be well looked after.

vs. Criterion:

I: Can we get some service here? We're here for dinner.
B: Sorry. All booked up.
I: What about those tables?
B: Reserved.
I: We can have drinks while we wait.
B: Try Victor's. It's an excellent restaurant. Just across the street.
I: Victor's it is.
B: Just tell them I sent you.

Criterion's flows much better. Kino's is awkwardly phrased and at the end barely coherent ("They do you well"). It also omits the restaurant's name, which again is frustrating as a viewer because you can clearly hear the name being spoken even if you don't understand French.

The closing exchange between the girls and M. Bouche:

Spoiler

Kino:

Bouche: I'll open the door for you.
Josy: A good meal, Madam Bouche.
B: Glad you liked it.
J: For once I've made you a compliment...

vs. Criterion:

Bouche: I have to let you out.
Josy: Swell dinner, Madame Bouche.
Lola: Just fine.
Bouche: I don't poison my customers.
Josy: You can't take a compliment.

Note Lola's line is left out of Kino's (not an uncommon problem here; Max's very first spoken line is left untranslated too). In the Criterion there's a greater sense of personality interplay (Bouche's retort is droll and sarcastic, Josy's response is playful and frustrated) whereas Kino's shifts the meaning of Bouche's words almost entirely, and Josy's response is again comparatively incoherent. I didn't watch the disc the whole way through, but I did skip around to note that the problem does recur (Ex: during the the famous late night biscuit conversation between Max and Riton, the line, "So I told her not to worry. I had what we needed." becomes "So I told her not to worry. I had the necessary.").

Rhythm, nuance, and minutiae are central to Grisbi's detailed evocation of a milieu; they're what make it a great film and Becker a great director. The work on the Kino disc is sloppy, and the film suffers for it.

[nitin]

I wonder if they are the same subs as on the worldwide Studiocanal discs?

[Ovader]

I have the Region B blu-ray and the Criterion subtitles for the opening scene are nearly similar to my UK edition.

Criterion: "Come see us, Max. You won't be sorry. It was obvious during rehearsals. It's our best show yet."
SC: "Come and see us, Max. You won't be sorry. It was obvious during rehearsals. It's our best show yet."

Criterion: "You gotta come, Max. Lola's a mermaid in the second number. It'll give the johns heart failure."
SC: "You gotta come, Max. Lola's a mermaid in the second number. It'll give the guys heart failure."

Criterion:
I: Can we get some service here? We're here for dinner.
B: Sorry. All booked up.
I: What about those tables?
B: Reserved.
I: We can have drinks while we wait.
B: Try Victor's. It's an excellent restaurant. Just across the street.
I: Victor's it is.
B: Just tell them I sent you.

SC:
I: Can we get some service here?
B: Ladies, gentlemen...
I: It's for dinner.
B: Sorry. All booked up.
I: What about those tables?
B: Reserved.
I: We can have drinks while we wait.
B: Try Victor's.
I: Victor's?
B: It's an excellent restaurant. Just across the street.
I: Victor's it is.
B: Just tell them I sent you.

[MichaelB]

If the rightsholder has provided a subtitle track (as is pretty common), there’s no point reinventing the wheel, although I suspect Criterion is one of those labels that goes through them line by line to see if there’s scope for tiny improvements.

[domino harvey]

I had to stop watching SC’s Blu-Ray of Une femme est une femme because the subtitler didn’t get the joke about ordering a coffee “green” and ruined it in their translation— as you can tell, I didn’t get very far, but I could already tell it was gonna be a waste of time

[hearthesilence]

I had to stop watching SC’s Blu-Ray of Une femme est une femme because the subtitler didn’t get the joke about ordering a coffee “green” and ruined it in their translation— as you can tell, I didn’t get very far, but I could already tell it was gonna be a waste of time

Unfortunately that's a fairly common mistake with this film. I don't think I've ever seen it right.

One mention from the Connecticut newspaper the Hartford Courant in 2003, reviewing a Rialto print that was screening at the time:

Spoiler

The new subtitles by Lenny Borger are très bon with one amusing exception. Early in the picture, Angela pauses at a cafe to order a coffee. A man steps up to the counter beside her and orders what the subtitles refer to as a "coffee green." "Vert" (pronounced "vare-t" with an almost imperceptibly soft consonant sound) is the French word for "green," but "verre" (pronounced "vare") means glass, and when the coffee is delivered in a glass, francophiles will have an extra but unintentional reason to grin.

[MichaelB]

Looking at that comparison in more detail, it's clear that Criterion does what I also do for Indicator releases - taking a broadly solid but possibly overly literal translation and slightly tweaking it line by line to make it read better.

And for me, this is an essential part of the process, not least because jokes/puns can be missed - or things simply misheard. I remember being baffled by a reference to "Rossellini's film about the doctors" in the interview with Paolo & Vittorio Taviani in the subtitles supplied by Cohen, until the penny dropped that "i medici" and "i Medici" sound exactly the same and that they must have been referring to Rossellini's 1973 TV series The Age of the Medici - so that line was fixed for the Arrow edition.

[domino harvey]

This happens a lot when you hire subtitlers that don’t know movie references. I just saw this earlier this year in the commercial subs for En liberte!, which translate a reference to Fantomas, the serial character, as “phantom,” which misses the point of the line

[MichaelB]

Yes, the translation was excellent, but the translator clearly wasn't a film person.

And you've just reminded me of another example, whereby a spoken "EuroDisney" was turned into "Disneyland" in the subtitles for La Haine, completely missing an important contextual point - if I remember rightly, although I haven't seen the film since it came out, EuroDisney was singled out for a reason (possibly as a crap French imitation of a superior American product).

Although sometimes interviewees themselves can pose a translation challenge. I myself translated the French-language Antonioni interviews on Indicator's The Passenger, but there were a couple of passages that completely stumped me - and when I consulted a native French speaker (Tenia of this parish, if I remember rightly), he said that that's because Antonioni was basically making words up by saying the Italian word in a vaguely French accent.

(Since I routinely do this myself in reverse when speaking Italian, on account of my French vocabulary being much bigger, I couldn't exactly complain!)

[Ovader]

February 4th
Mo' Better Blues (1990)
Jungle Fever (1991)
Crooklyn (1994)
Clockers (1995)
Summer of Sam (1999)
The Oscar (1966)
Anne Frank (2001 TV Movie) - DVD only

February 11th
Heartbeeps (1981)
The Sting II (1983)
Transylvania 6-5000 (1985)
Legal Eagles (1986)
Leave Yesterday Behind (1978 TV Movie) - DVD only

February 18th
The Criminal (1960) aka The Concrete Jungle
Accident (1967)
Perfect Friday (1971)
The Light at the Edge of the World (1971)
The Day of the Dolphin (1974)
Je t'aime moi non plus (1976) Kino Classics

February 25th
Quai des orfevres (1947)
The Third Lover (1962)
Line of Demarcation (1966)
The Deadly Trap (1967)
And Hope to Die (1972)
Max and the Junkmen (1971)

[domino harvey]

The Oscar (1966)

I don’t remember this being announced, but it is a truly terrible movie and somehow worse than its reputation. I’ll give KL benefit of the doubt and it may have been a contractual obligation license packaged with something else. Looking forward to one of the KL Gang of Four rattling off Stephen Boyd’s IMDB page for thirty minutes, though

[CSM126]

The Oscar got a shatteringly loud snort out of me. God that’s just terrible. I can’t believe that whoever owns that thing would want it released, even under another label’s name.

[captveg]

The Oscar got a shatteringly loud snort out of me. God that’s just terrible. I can’t believe that whoever owns that thing would want it released, even under another label’s name.

The Oscar is via Paramount licensing

[Big Ben]

Yeah but now I want to see it to see how bad it is.

[Dylan]

I'll chime in and be the lone defender of this film. It's over the top, loud, and Stephen Boyd's performance is outlandish, but I found all of that fascinating. Also, the consistently snappy dialogue is wonderfully entertaining, it has a gorgeous glossy look (cinematography by Joseph Ruttenberg, terrific Edith Head costumes), and it's always great to see Elke Sommer. I wouldn't say it's one of the all-time best films of its kind, but I enjoyed it.

[brundlefly]

'"Oh, yeah,' Sinatra said, 'well I've seen it, and it's a piece of crap.'"

[Dylan]

'"Oh, yeah,' Sinatra said, 'well I've seen it, and it's a piece of crap.'"

Ah yes, the famous Harlan Ellison and Frank Sinatra fight. As Ellison recounted, though, it would've actually been impossible for Sinatra to have seen it when they had that conflict, unless Sinatra had somehow seen the dailies (which I suppose is possible).

[FrauBlucher]

The Insider posted about a "Noirember" sale starting later this month with the term "while supplies last" which led to this exchange with a forum member...

Quote:What exactly is the "while supplies last" sale? Are a bunch of titles supposed to be going out of print soon?

If they sellout, we won't restock. If the rights expire, we won't renew. Whichever comes first.

[Glowingwabbit]

The Insider posted about a "Noirember" sale starting later this month with the term "while supplies last" which led to this exchange with a forum member...

Quote:What exactly is the "while supplies last" sale? Are a bunch of titles supposed to be going out of print soon?

If they sellout, we won't restock. If the rights expire, we won't renew. Whichever comes first.

It actually refers to a "Noirvember" sale and a "While supplies last" sale in November. Two different. promotions. Also a big sale at the beginning of December

[colinr0380]

And you've just reminded me of another example, whereby a spoken "EuroDisney" was turned into "Disneyland" in the subtitles for La Haine, completely missing an important contextual point - if I remember rightly, although I haven't seen the film since it came out, EuroDisney was singled out for a reason (possibly as a crap French imitation of a superior American product).

It would also have just have opened only a couple of years earlier (as Disneyland Paris in 1992) to a little bit of mockery from what I remember, until it seemed to prove successful. Even The Simpsons mocked it at the end of their Itchy and Scratchy Land episode! (In a joke they would be unlikely to get away with now that they are part of the Disney empire!) And it would have been part of the 'American colonialism' that some of the characters rail against in the film (albeit ironically quoting the Scarface "The World Is Yours" motto whilst doing so!)

February 11th
Transylvania 6-5000 (1985)

I have been curious about this for a while. From what I have heard it is not very funny at all but is historically interesting. Apparently (according to the Trailer Trauma Volume 4 commentary) this was made in Croatia entirely for the purpose of using up money 'trapped there' that could not be brought back to the United States for 'tax reasons'. And its other claim to fame is that this is the film that Jeff Goldblum and Geena Davis met up and became a couple for a while on. Goldblum received the script for his next film, The Fly, whilst there which Davis read and auditioned for from that.

[Gregory]

Often I look at a movie and ask, "Why did this need to exist?" but rarely is the answer "Our assets are frozen; might as well use them to make a lousy horror spoof (menacing laugh)":

The movie was financed by Dow Chemical Company, a company rarely associated with film making. Yugoslav law at the time prevented the company from repatriating funds that it had accumulated in the Yugoslav dinar. To free these frozen funds, Dow decided to use them to pay for a film production inside the country. (Wikipedia)

[MichaelB]

It would also have just have opened only a couple of years earlier (as Disneyland Paris in 1992) to a little bit of mockery from what I remember, until it seemed to prove successful.

Other way round - it opened as EuroDisney in 1992, but the name was changed to Disneyland Paris in October 1994 as part of an emergency rebranding exercise. I assume it was still widely known as EuroDisney when La Haine was filmed (it had its world premiere in May 1995, which suggests that the bulk if not all of the shooting would have been in 1994).

[colinr0380]

Ah, that explains the "Euro Itchy & Scratchy Land" reference in that Simpsons episode as well then!