Life was nice before diversity arrived
DVDBeaver
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: DVDBeaver
He follows a literal white supremacy Twitter account. There is no nuance here. I am flabbergasted at the responses of some of you— I’m the one that always gets flack for being skeptical or laissez-faire, but there’s no ambiguity here. He follows an account that advocates for the superiority of the white race and that posts/retweets nothing but tweets to that effect. Did none of you bother to visit the account before defending his choice here? Guess you’re okay with supporting someone who supports
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
- Contact:
Re: DVDBeaver
I follow lots of people whose views I disagree with, sometimes profoundly - indeed, two people I follow have just expressed directly contradictory opinions, and I obviously can't agree with both.
Has there been any evidence of Gary actually expressing approval of this account - for instance, by approvingly or neutrally retweeting inflammatory content?
Has there been any evidence of Gary actually expressing approval of this account - for instance, by approvingly or neutrally retweeting inflammatory content?
Last edited by MichaelB on Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: DVDBeaver
This isn’t a public figure or a provocative comedian. This is an account called ProWhitesUnite...
- Rayon Vert
- Green is the Rayest Color
- Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:52 pm
- Location: Canada
- Contact:
Re: DVDBeaver
I'm guilty of not having bothered, although just by the name of the account of course I find it completely reprehensible.domino harvey wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:50 pmHe follows a literal white supremacy Twitter account. There is no nuance here. I am flabbergasted at the responses of some of you— I’m the one that always gets flack for being skeptical or laissez-faire, but there’s no ambiguity here. He follows an account that advocates for the superiority of the white race and that posts/retweets nothing but tweets to that effect. Did none of you bother to visit the account before defending his choice here?
However my approval of furbicide’s post expressed my wariness in jumping to serious, character-defining, publicly-shared conclusions about an individual merely based on his or her Twitter account-follows.
- Big Ben
- Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:54 pm
- Location: Great Falls, Montana
Re: DVDBeaver
domino is on the money here. ProWhitesUnite is an actively pro white nationalist account. It peddles in all manner of conspiracies ranging from everything from Racial IQ Science to Antisemitic Paranoia. The banner on the Twitter account has a link to a Youtube video praising Adolf Hitler.
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
- Contact:
Re: DVDBeaver
I'm not disputing any of this - but I note that my specific question has yet to be answered.
Following ≠ endorsement.
(Christ, if that was the case, I'd be tying myself up in knots every time I went on Twitter!)
Following ≠ endorsement.
(Christ, if that was the case, I'd be tying myself up in knots every time I went on Twitter!)
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: DVDBeaver
Because it’s not a meaningful distinction? Unless you’re monitoring for Southern Poverty Law et al (and in which case you still wouldn’t use your public account or do so without some kind of public caveat), by following a white supremacy account you are either a white supremicist or don’t mind being thought of as one.
There’s no need for hypotheticals or parallels to things that are not this. The actual scenario here is Gary follows an account solely devoted to supporting white supremacy.
There’s no need for hypotheticals or parallels to things that are not this. The actual scenario here is Gary follows an account solely devoted to supporting white supremacy.
- The Narrator Returns
- Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:35 pm
Re: DVDBeaver
I'm 100% with domino here, and some of the other responses are getting pretty close to this territory;
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: DVDBeaver
Guess I'll be the one dropping Gary an email to know what's what instead of trying to get into his brain by Twitter's feed procuration.
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
- Contact:
Re: DVDBeaver
Don't bother - I've already done it, and unsurprisingly Gary has confirmed to me that he does not endorse ProWhitesUnite in any way, shape or form, and that he is categorically not a white supremacist (or, to quote him directly, "bigoted ethno-nationalist").
He suspects that ProWhitesUnite someone he followed after he made an amusing tweet several years ago, who has since changed his username and statement of purpose. He also confirms that people shouldn't assume that he agrees with everything that Donald Trump says either.
I get the strong impression that Gary's not very active on Twitter except as a conduit for DVD Beaver stuff - certainly, there seems to be very little interaction with other accounts unless they directly engage with him upfront.
He suspects that ProWhitesUnite someone he followed after he made an amusing tweet several years ago, who has since changed his username and statement of purpose. He also confirms that people shouldn't assume that he agrees with everything that Donald Trump says either.
I get the strong impression that Gary's not very active on Twitter except as a conduit for DVD Beaver stuff - certainly, there seems to be very little interaction with other accounts unless they directly engage with him upfront.
- FrauBlucher
- Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:28 pm
- Location: Greenwich Village
Re: DVDBeaver
Suggesting what a person views are by who they follow is a poor indication of what they believe or think. Afterall, Trump has close to 60Million followers. You have to know that at least a quarter of those hate the man.
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: DVDBeaver
I guess that's why I couldn't find this Twitter account in its followings.
He also seemed to me as not particularly using Twitter save for giving Beaver some visibility. However, his subscription list is quite some mess of video companies / movie-related people, then Ron Paul, Julien Assange, Nigel Farage, Dinesh D'Souza, quite a hefty amount of Trump WH related people, but also a surprising amount of banking/invetsment related people.
- Dansu Dansu Dansu
- Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:14 pm
- Location: California
Re: DVDBeaver
Doesn’t the fact that he cares enough to follow Trump’s White House mean that he’s on enough to keep up with the revolving door of his administration? And even if he might not tweet frequently, doesn’t this suggest he at least reads their tweets? I’m pretty sure I would notice racist rhetoric, by whatever name, if it appeared on my feed.
And speaking of which, is there really a discernible difference between a D’Souza fan and a racist/bigot? Or a Nigel Farage follower for that matter?
And speaking of which, is there really a discernible difference between a D’Souza fan and a racist/bigot? Or a Nigel Farage follower for that matter?
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
- Contact:
Re: DVDBeaver
All this is pointless speculation. If you want to believe that Gary is some kind of neo-Nazi, go right ahead, but he says he isn’t, and I have no reason to disbelieve him, any more than you can convincingly argue that I’m part of a violent anarchist outfit who thinks that the only good Tory is a dead Tory - because they only changed their name and revealed their true colours after luring people in with the promise of an intelligent and non-partisan debate about Britain’s current drug policies. (I remained a follower for several weeks purely because the outrage when people realised what they’d done was enormously entertaining.)
In fact, I also remember Finch of this parish sharing (in all genuine innocence) a Facebook post by virulently Islamophobic far-right group Britain First, at a time when nobody knew who they were but they were very good at coming up with eye-catching memes in order to ensnare unwitting followers.
In fact, I also remember Finch of this parish sharing (in all genuine innocence) a Facebook post by virulently Islamophobic far-right group Britain First, at a time when nobody knew who they were but they were very good at coming up with eye-catching memes in order to ensnare unwitting followers.
- HJackson
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:27 pm
Re: DVDBeaver
I did an advanced Twitter search on the account in question and it seems to have had the same handle since its inception. I'm willing to give Tooze the benefit of the doubt here since there doesn't seem to be a pattern of him following similar accounts (if he was really into this stuff, wouldn't his Follows be flooded with David Duke and the like?) but I think we need to accept that he was sloppy at best and not just being duped.
Yes. There's a clear difference between being a hardline conservative and being an ethnonationalist.Dansu Dansu Dansu wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:07 pmAnd speaking of which, is there really a discernible difference between a D’Souza fan and a racist/bigot? Or a Nigel Farage follower for that matter?
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- Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:31 am
- Location: Somerset, England
Re: DVDBeaver
It's just as well I've never used Twitter as I genuinely hadn't realised that a "follower" was usually defined in the sense of being a disciple. I'm usually more interested in what my enemies are up to than my friends, so I'd no doubt be following - as in "monitoring" - all sorts of individuals and groups I loathe.
I suppose this is the modern equivalent of the old (British?) tradition of judging people by the books they own, gently satirised in The Happiest Days of Your Life when headmistress Margaret Rutherford declares, "A woman's bookshelf is an infallible guide to her character." There's arguably a difference in that Twitter is public and bookshelves are usually private, though I recall at least one UK murder case where the chief suspect was found guilty in the court of public opinion after the press leaked details of his eccentric behaviour and "dodgy" volumes on his bookshelves. He was subsequently released without charge.
I'm not particularly seeking to defend Mr Tooze (though, judging from the few checks I made, his blanket enthusiasm for almost every film ever made does not seem to falter when it comes to works by African-American directors or anti-racism classics). But I do think that judging anyone by what they follow, or what they read, or what they watch, sets a dangerous precedent.
I suppose this is the modern equivalent of the old (British?) tradition of judging people by the books they own, gently satirised in The Happiest Days of Your Life when headmistress Margaret Rutherford declares, "A woman's bookshelf is an infallible guide to her character." There's arguably a difference in that Twitter is public and bookshelves are usually private, though I recall at least one UK murder case where the chief suspect was found guilty in the court of public opinion after the press leaked details of his eccentric behaviour and "dodgy" volumes on his bookshelves. He was subsequently released without charge.
I'm not particularly seeking to defend Mr Tooze (though, judging from the few checks I made, his blanket enthusiasm for almost every film ever made does not seem to falter when it comes to works by African-American directors or anti-racism classics). But I do think that judging anyone by what they follow, or what they read, or what they watch, sets a dangerous precedent.
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: DVDBeaver
I myself considered following most of Trump's WH people Twitter feed simply because of the amount of BS they're writing, and I thought it'd be easier having them here on one feed than reading about them the next day in the newspaper. But I don't care that much, and barely uses Twitter, so that's that. I would however agree with HJackson that Gary's feed, especially since it's using his website's name and not his own (ie the "pro" account and not the personal one) might need a good cleanup because as such, I don't see how half of these subscriptions are anywhere related to video reviews.Dansu Dansu Dansu wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:07 pmAnd even if he might not tweet frequently, doesn’t this suggest he at least reads their tweets? I’m pretty sure I would notice racist rhetoric, by whatever name, if it appeared on my feed.
That's precisely my issue here, and the fact that it took someone looking at his Twitter feed to find what appears nowhere on his website at heart would tend to support my view.Jonathan S wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:57 amBut I do think that judging anyone by what they follow, or what they read, or what they watch, sets a dangerous precedent.
- furbicide
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:52 am
Re: DVDBeaver
On one level, I totally agree and think that it’s extremely unwise of him to be following far-right accounts on his “professional” Twitter profile as opposed to his personal one. In theory, there should be a clear distinction between those two realms.tenia wrote:I would however agree with HJackson that Gary's feed, especially since it's using his website's name and not his own (ie the "pro" account and not the personal one) might need a good cleanup because as such, I don't see how half of these subscriptions are anywhere related to video reviews.
On the other, it’s not like anyone seems to actually respect that distinction anymore when going after people for social media activity; for instance, I doubt it would have affected any of the responses on here if it’d been Tooze’s personal account we were discussing rather than his website’s.
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: DVDBeaver
You're probably right, but I agree with you that doing this with one's "pro" account probably makes things worse and is, in any case, very unwise.
- Dansu Dansu Dansu
- Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:14 pm
- Location: California
Re: DVDBeaver
I completely agree, but “hardline conservative” can be a euphemism behind which certain public figures take refuge. If ProWhiteWhatever posted, “Blacks were taken care of as slaves by their knowing white owners, and now that they are free, they are helplessly dependent on welfare and crime,” one wouldn’t say, “wait a minute...that’s D’Souza, what is that doing on a white nationalist twitter feed?!” Also, despite Farage’s protests, once one removes the smokescreen surrounding what must not be admitted, isn’t he essentially an ethno-nationalist?HJackson wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:30 amYes. There's a clear difference between being a hardline conservative and being an ethnonationalist.Dansu Dansu Dansu wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:07 pmAnd speaking of which, is there really a discernible difference between a D’Souza fan and a racist/bigot? Or a Nigel Farage follower for that matter?
My point being that Gary specifically mentioned not being an ethno-nationalist, which is the unifying theme to these conservative interests, Trump included. Some may support Trump because they are conservative, have never questioned their ideology, and avoid thinking about the aspects of his administration that are uncomfortable. But Gary seems to connect the dots; there is an ideological thrust to what he follows. I don’t see it as a misunderstanding as MichaelB thoughtfully argued. It is entirely possible he is telling the truth but the joke he found funny was not too far divorced from what one would expect from someone named ProWhiteUnite, just with the comfort of not labeling it so succinctly.
For the record, I have been visiting DVD Beaver for ages, and would love to preview how The Reckless Moment and Lilith turned out. I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt for selfish reasons, and also appreciate the notion of not judging one solely on who they follow on Twitter. Yet this is clearly a pattern starting on Facebook, and having been raised in a conservative environment and knowing how racism often hides in plain sight, the pattern is at least not something I can banish away as merely a mistake.
- denti alligator
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:36 pm
- Location: "born in heaven, raised in hell"
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: DVDBeaver
I for one am shocked to discover that Gary might not tell an unflattering truth to an acquaintance who feels close enough to drop him a line via email and who could be reasonably counted on to report back in this public forum about the response
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
- Location: SLC, UT
Re: DVDBeaver
I'm all primed to get out my pitchfork and all, but what's the plan here? Stop clicking links to his site? Stop buying from labels that give him screeners? Or just, like, expressing outrage in this thread?
- bearcuborg
- Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:30 am
- Location: Philadelphia via Chicago
Re: DVDBeaver
Well, I gave a minor review contribution once, but I don’t know the guy. I’m grossed out by things I’m reading here. While this forum does a fairly good job of keeping me in the loop, so does Rosenbaum’s Global Discoveries, and then there’s Film Comment - so it’s not like I’m at a complete loss if I never clicked on his site again.
However, the site can be a nice reference point. Still, I’ve never bought things through his links, so I can take some solace in that... swo17 brings up a good question.
I used PayPal even with with the head honcho giving Trump money...The Chicago Cubs owners don’t make it easy rooting for them nowadays...
However, the site can be a nice reference point. Still, I’ve never bought things through his links, so I can take some solace in that... swo17 brings up a good question.
I used PayPal even with with the head honcho giving Trump money...The Chicago Cubs owners don’t make it easy rooting for them nowadays...
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: DVDBeaver
No change from me, I just didn't and don't like some of our members treating this like an intellectual exercise in faux-tolerance and finding ways to pretend this isn't exactly what it is. I don't financially support him via Patreon now, and do not plan to support him in that fashion in the future. His site still provides a useful service that outweighs moral outrage against his beliefs, for me at least, so I have no plans to stop visiting it. However, I think those who do give him money or support or hits should be aware of what they are supporting so they can make the decision themselves on how to proceed