The All-Time List Discussion Thread (Decade Project Vol. 3)

[Noiradelic]

Either a few weeks or a month works for me.

[bdsweeney]

How much more time would people like?

Another two months, please. Or more ...

I really appreciate that the list isn't just full of what's in the usual cannon. Yes, not everything is great.

But along with the mishaps, I've been introduced to films I'd never heard of before and have really appreciated; e.g. L'Annular, Chameleon Street.

Plus a love of 1930's comedy.

[swo17]

Alright, extension granted. I'd be good with just another month, but I have crazy work deadlines through mid-March so it's going to have to be after that--let's say March 26th. No excuses now, guys. You can still submit a list any time between now and then. If you've already submitted one and want to make any changes, just let me know sometime before the deadline.

But seriously, let's try to keep the level of discussion here more on par with the last week/the first month. It'll be a shame if this thread goes silent again until two weeks before the new deadline...

[TMDaines]

I watched three films on my Kiev-Amsterdam flight today.

The Cranes Are Flying is an absolute masterpiece. Not sure when I was last struck with the cinematography of a film. I'm partly wishing I'd first seen it projected big, but the film lost nothing watching on my iPad. I love the style of so much of Eastern European cinema of the Soviet period. I know it is crude to lump it all together, but so many of its great works share a similarly inventive aesthetic. Perhaps the contemporary viewer is always going to be one step ahead of the plot, but it's an astonishing, moving work nevertheless. I'm going to take some stills when I get back to encourage others to view. So much depth of field in this one.

Eaux d'artifice is something, although it feels like a French and Saunders parody itself.

The Land Beyond the Sunset is a nice little silent short, but cinema of this time is always going to struggle to compete with what was to come.

[domino harvey]

Two month extension! Goddammit, now I'm going to have to aim to complete the entire 585 again

[Rayon Vert]

Alright, extension granted. I'd be good with just another month, but I have crazy work deadlines through mid-March so it's going to have to be after that--let's say March 26th.

Thank you! Very appreciated.

[Rayon Vert]

And it's really destabilizing doing this because a lot of films I had previously rated extremely high can all of a sudden drop 300 to 500 rankings.

Obviously your evaluation of rewatching films at a certain time in your life will reflect not only how your views about cinema have evolved, but also a lot of quirky factors like the mood you're in. I'm trying to be faithful to what I truly like and feel for and not detachedly admire (although I feel there is always a mixture of those two elements in whatever films rise to the top of one's list), but I've been surprised that the following films occupying extremely high echelons in my all-time list that I've rewatched in the past 2-to-3 months (I'm really rewatching from the top of the list down) have taken a very hard hit: The Godfather Part II (and the first film to a lesser extent), Raging Bull, Taxi Driver, Goodfellas, Day of Wrath, La Passion de Jeanne d'Arc, Contempt, The Shining, The Leopard, Short Cuts, Children of Paradise, The Seventh Seal, Paisan and even... my namesake. (Although even if a film falls to no. 300 or 400, it's still a film I value highly.) One happy side of this is that my top 50 (and beyond) will look radically different than it did and, to at least some degree hopefully, composed of less of those Ye Olde Crusty Everyone-Agrees-Is-An-All-Time-Classic.

[swo17]

This brings up an important point: It's entirely likely that, since the last time you watched it, someone has left your favorite film out of the refrigerator too long and it has since gone rotten. Only one way to find out...

[Rayon Vert]

It'll be a shame if this thread goes silent again until two weeks before the new deadline...

In that spirit, I'll try to write a few words on my current rewatches, as uninspired as they might be. This weekend's batch:

Apocalypse Now. (Redux version). I was expecting this to go down in my ratings, especially given my reaction to seeing the Godfather movies again, but this is an amazing film from beginning to end and I enjoyed it even more than the last time. The mastery of film technique and artistry involved in some of those scenes, like the Kilgore combat scenes. It's a (surreal) war film meets the Odyssey, with the protagonist and his fellow travellers coming across different stations with their own, unique atmosphere and dangers. Those orange and purple sunsets and the whole visual mise-en-scène is truly a memorable experience, and you really feel you're on an epic-scale journey. On previous viewings, I'd felt finally arriving to Kurtzland was a bit anti-climactic, but didn't feel this way this time. With a lot of my top favorites having been downgraded, this will wind up high on the list indeed - something I was not expecting at all.

The Wages of Fear. I don't think watching a bunch of guys at work has ever been so suspenseful! That first 45 minutes in that desert town is weird - very meandering, but atmospheric and enjoyable. And then the action starts, and we go from one more thrilling scene to another. Fantastic settings and characters, and the Vanel character's vulnerability gives the film depth. I forgot how much suffering there is in this film.

The Red Shoes. This has gone down in my ranking, as I expected, but what an achievement. The film's force is how the ballet's themes are the film's - life vs. art (or ambition). Extremely appealing visually - pure eye-candy throughout.

[domino harvey]

Since I imagine many if not most of us will be voting for it, I hope everyone takes L'Avventura's likely upcoming spot in the Film Club as an opportunity to revisit and discuss, especially if you like me haven't seen it since it got upgraded

[Rayon Vert]

One fortunate thing about the release of the Criterion Blow-Up blu being timed just after this project is over is that it didn't make the list! I did rewatch The Passenger and L'Eclisse recently, and plan to get to both L'Avventura and Red Desert. All four have a fair chance of making my list.

[domino harvey]

Only room on my list for Red Desert and L'Avventura, but L'eclisse would definitely be my third favorite

Probably also worth noting that our next Mini-List after Westerns will be the Ingmar Bergman Auteur List, so you could kill two birds with one stone by (re)watching his qualifying titles from this list as well

[Rayon Vert]

Probably also worth noting that our next Mini-List after Westerns will be the Ingmar Bergman Auteur List, so you could kill two birds with one stone by (re)watching his qualifying titles from this list as well

I'll continue doing rewatches after this project, so I'll make sure to do the other Bergmans as well (have already started with some of my favourites like Shame, Through the Glass Darkly and Smiles of a Summer's Night), although unfortunately I seem to like him a lot less than I used to.

[domino harvey]

But along with the mishaps, I've been introduced to films I'd never heard of before and have really appreciated; e.g. L'Annular

Glad you enjoyed L'annulaire. I still can't believe someone else besides me put it in their top ten for the decades list, but I love that it's been thrown into the mix with far better known films. I previously said I wouldn't have room for it but I think I'll probably end up finding a way to sneak it in at the bottom of my Top 50. Such a bewitching film!

[domino harvey]

Probably also worth noting that our next Mini-List after Westerns will be the Ingmar Bergman Auteur List, so you could kill two birds with one stone by (re)watching his qualifying titles from this list as well

I'll continue doing rewatches after this project, so I'll make sure to do the other Bergmans as well (have already started with some of my favourites like Shame, Through the Glass Darkly and Smiles of a Summer's Night), although unfortunately I seem to like him a lot less than I used to.

Outside of Cries and Whispers, Persona, the Seventh Seal, and Shame, I'm not sure I've had cause to revisit any other Bergman films since I first saw them. So even though I've seen (I think) all of his feature films, I've been running on the fumes of my first impressions for most of them! All those nice fancy Blu-ray upgrades I picked up from Criterion will finally have their time to shine (and those poor Tartan discs will also get a second play)

[Rayon Vert]

Outside of Cries and Whispers, Persona, the Seventh Seal, and Shame, I'm not sure I've had cause to revisit any other Bergman films since I first saw them. So even though I've seen (I think) all of his feature films, I've been running on the fumes of my first impressions for most of them! All those nice fancy Blu-ray upgrades I picked up from Criterion will finally have their time to shine (and those poor Tartan discs will also get a second play)

Aside from the thrill of initial discovery, I also find that when you immerse yourself completely with a director's oeuvre for the first time - seeing all or most of his/her films, read up on them, watch all the extras and commentaries - the films shine in a way that they don't (a lot of the time) when later on you revisit them singly, without all that context and without inhabiting that distinct universe and of its rich recurring motifs and themes (like the way the 60s Bergman films especially, and obsessively, revisit and use the same locations, actors, even props...)

[Tommaso]

The Red Shoes. This has gone down in my ranking, as I expected, but what an achievement. The film's force is how the ballet's themes are the film's - life vs. art (or ambition). Extremely appealing visually - pure eye-candy throughout.

Why has it gone down in your ranking, given all the praise you have for it which I completely share? The film is perfection all the way, and not least features Walbrook's most incredible performance, perhaps only somewhat reached by what he achieves in "La ronde". That moment near the end when he is alone on stage is spine-chilling even after the umpteenth viewing. And I must say that the ballet sequence is certainly the film - within a film, of course, but I think it works perfectly as a self-contained film itself - I've watched most often for its sheer beauty, elegance, and depth. My unshakeable #2 on this list for sure.

[Mr Sausage]

But along with the mishaps, I've been introduced to films I'd never heard of before and have really appreciated; e.g. L'Annular

Glad you enjoyed L'annulaire. I still can't believe someone else besides me put it in their top ten for the decades list, but I love that it's been thrown into the mix with far better known films. I previously said I wouldn't have room for it but I think I'll probably end up finding a way to sneak it in at the bottom of my Top 50. Such a bewitching film!

I owe you thanks for introducing L'annulaire to me in the Horror list project. It'll be going in at #29 on my own All-Time list. If anyone else hasn't watched it, you ought to treat yourself to this ambiguous and highly charged fantasy.

[Rayon Vert]

The Red Shoes. This has gone down in my ranking, as I expected, but what an achievement. The film's force is how the ballet's themes are the film's - life vs. art (or ambition). Extremely appealing visually - pure eye-candy throughout.

Why has it gone down in your ranking, given all the praise you have for it which I completely share? The film is perfection all the way, and not least features Walbrook's most incredible performance, perhaps only somewhat reached by what he achieves in "La ronde". That moment near the end when he is alone on stage is spine-chilling even after the umpteenth viewing. And I must say that the ballet sequence is certainly the film - within a film, of course, but I think it works perfectly as a self-contained film itself - I've watched most often for its sheer beauty, elegance, and depth. My unshakeable #2 on this list for sure.

It is terrific. I'm just going on what I feel most strongly towards, rather than judge to be "perfect". Walbrook is indeed fantastic. The entire cast is admirable, and Moira Shearer dances and looks like a vision.

[swo17]

I received some more lists over the weekend in spite of the extension. Interesting(?) observation for the day: The current #1 pick has appeared on more than half of the lists, and in the top 10 of all of them, so it's safe to call it a consensus favorite. The rest of the top 10 contains a 2-way tie, a 3-way tie, and a 4-way tie, so it's a close one!

[Tommaso]

The Shanghai Gesture (Josef von Sternberg 1941): one of the few old(er) films I've specifically watched for this project, and I should have watched it much earlier, of course. This continues visually where The Devil is a Woman left off and like with that earlier film I think this is another totally Sternbergian (and thus, great in a way) case of style over substance. These casino shots are simply amazing, as is the way that Sternberg conveys the constant bustle of the place. There were some scenes of more intimate dialogue in the first thirty minutes where most other directors would have completely eliminated the background talk and noise, but Sternberg leaves it on and it all adds to the constant overwhelming power of that place from which neither the characters nor the viewers can escape. Unlike others here, I actually found Ona Munson as "Mother Gin Sling" quite convincing, simply because her role is so overdone - and I don't just mean the hairstyle - that it almost seems to be tongue-in-cheek, as if Sternberg himself wasn't taking this whole thing too seriously and was just happy to pack outrage on outrage; in this respect I was also left openmouthed about how he was able to get away with those girls in the cages under the conditions of the Code.

I also had a hearty laugh right at the beginning about the Shanghai version of a traffic policeman clearly trying to imitate his American or British counterparts in a somewhat hopeless manner. So perhaps this initial scene was intended to show the viewer that this was not to be much more than a fantasy, an excuse for Sternberg doing another exercise in excess. Because in terms of plot or narrative, it's not only unbelievable, but it's also largely devoid of any. The Tierney/Mature-part of the plot doesn't get developed at all, and the rest feels like a third-rate stage drama. Seriously, in spite of its visual qualities, this can't make my all-time list, though perhaps I'd now find a place for it on the lower ranks of my 40s list. But as for sheer excessiveness - though in a totally different way, and dead serious by comparison - I'd still prefer and recommend again Harlan's Opfergang...

[denti alligator]

Apologies if this has been addressed, but I can't seem to figure out how the Master List was created. I see that the films are drawn from the v.3 lists. But which films? There are films in the top 50 of these lists that aren't on the Master List.

[swo17]

See here

[domino harvey]

Well it only took literally hundreds of viewings for this project to find a previously unseen title that could threaten my top fifty, but Farewell My Concubine is a tremendous film. I know lengthy historical (b)romances set against a backdrop of history are old hat, but this film is remarkably lively and inquisitive about its depictions and while I know I missed a lot of context, the film kept everything going at such a steady and satisfying clip that it was never an issue. Complex characterizations for the flawed but fascinating central pairing just as much as the sweeping narrative span help give this the lived-in feel of a novel. I never would have guessed going in that I would be so invested in a film about Peking Opera, or that it would engross me so fully in its epic brushstrokes as the events coloring the edges of the action gradually impart more and more import on the day-to-day lives of our protagonists. What a wonderful film, and watching now does double duty for our future Cannes Top Award Mini-List (where it will certainly place for me). Good work, whoever put this in their Top Ten!

[knives]

It's not going to make my list, but I love it all the same for many of the reasons you mention plus Gong Li doing possibly the best version of a character she has since played a million times. Her character in lesser hands could easily be shrewish or a mere source of conflict for the central couple. Instead she is given so much room to breath and played so well that it could easily become her story. I think that's where the epic sense of a novel really comes in. Despite having great moments of intimacy the film is compassionate enough to where every character has the possibility of leading the story. It along with Curse of the Golden Flower were really the first Chinese films I saw that I really liked with Farewell My Concubine in particular really having this breath of history that a lot of other films from the era tried to capture, but really only To Live from the ones I've seen comes even close. It's crazy to think that (supposedly) Jackie Chan was the first choice to play the butch lead.