The All-Time List Discussion Thread (Decade Project Vol. 3)

An ongoing project to survey the best films of individual decades, genres, and filmmakers
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Satori
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#76 Post by Satori »

knives wrote:Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought that was another reference to Harry as devil. I think that the broom thing, maybe the bed thing also, specifically are folk legends of the christian imp?
Ah, I'm sure you're right.

I'll take a look at that essay as well. I'd love to learn more about the specific religious/folk traditions referenced in the film.
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zedz
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#77 Post by zedz »

Some great discussion happening here!

I think the different takes on religion in To Sleep With Anger are just one (central) aspect of the film's complex and intricate consideration of conflicting kinds of Black identity: urban vs rural, distinctions of class, aspirational (and to what?) or complacent. The idea that black identity in this film is already unstable to some extent is one of the things that raises the threat of Harry way beyond horror movie norms. He's an existential threat, representing a multi-dimensional return of the repressed that really gnaws at existing senses of guilt within the characters. (Which is why it's essential that his nature retains a hefty degree of ambiguity.)

Oh, and this film is surely a contender for best credits sequence ever.
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knives
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#78 Post by knives »

Definitely. That still life flame really works as its own little experimental film and plays well into all of those identity conflicts of class and representation what with him looking stoic, but dressed ready for something more casual. Paul Butler despite being so passive throughout gives a really powerful performance. A lot of the family dynamics wouldn't really work if the patriarch weren't such a complicated man himself. How Butler handles the first priestly joke is great in a way that instantly explains how each son could come out the way they did.
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colinr0380
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#79 Post by colinr0380 »

I sometimes think To Sleep With Anger is also a kind of very veiled vampire film, in the sense that there is a discussion between Harry and the matriarch of the family about coming from the 'old world' to modern Los Angeles and a later contrasting discussion in which she asks him "why are you here?" and he responds by saying "you invited me"! There's a whole supernatural element swirling around what is essentially an ensemble family drama. Perhaps there is the suggestion that the characters need a devilish character like Harry (and religion in general) to take on all their sins, their failings, their pregnancy troubles, their thoughts of adultery or otherwise abandoning their families and so on. He can kind of embody all of their failings, be seen as the element that led others into temptation, and end up being the physical cause for their various woes.

Even the kid next door struggling to learn to play the trumpet throughout suddenly manages to break into a perfect harmony at the end, once Harry is gone. The lifting of a burden, or did he just simply practice until he got good enough, even if it meant irritating people along the way?
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thirtyframesasecond
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#80 Post by thirtyframesasecond »

I always see Harry as like the Terence Stamp character in Teorema.
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TMDaines
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#81 Post by TMDaines »

Here's an interesting way to look at the shortlist: films sorted by their obscurity (i.e. number of IMDb ratings).

I've seen the third and fourth most obscure, but need to look my way through the others down there.
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domino harvey
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#82 Post by domino harvey »

Interesting! I've seen eight of the ten films listed as the most obscure. Of those, Ich bei Tag und du bei Nacht (I By Day, You By Night) is def my favorite. Very charming central performance by Käthe von Nagy and a light screwball charm to the assorted plot contrivances. In no danger of making my list, but it was one of the better discoveries from tackling this project
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colinr0380
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#83 Post by colinr0380 »

thirtyframesasecond wrote:I always see Harry as like the Terence Stamp character in Teorema.
That's a great way of looking at it!
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Tommaso
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#84 Post by Tommaso »

domino harvey wrote:Interesting! I've seen eight of the ten films listed as the most obscure. Of those, Ich bei Tag und du bei Nacht (I By Day, You By Night) is def my favorite. Very charming central performance by Käthe von Nagy and a light screwball charm to the assorted plot contrivances. In no danger of making my list, but it was one of the better discoveries from tackling this project
It looks like at least four of the 'most obscure' films will make my list, and Ich bei Tag und du bei Nacht will definitely be on it, for its own qualities, of course, but also because it's the only eligible film representing the Weimar sound film operetta, a genre about which I've written a longer post in the 30s List thread here (just in case someone needs some context for this marvellous film).

About Ich bei Tag und du bei Nacht specifically, I wrote:
Tommaso wrote: The film is on the one hand the perfect expression of what the genre was about, but it's getting an additional twist by showing us the romanticized, idealised world of some of the lesser film operettas as a cinema film within the film itself, with the two main characters (both poor), especially the girl, dreaming of having such a cinema romance in their real life as well. The dialogue is full of references about the relationship between cinema and real life, perfectly expressed by the most famous song from the film, "Wenn ich sonntags in mein Kino geh'", but also by a visit to the Sanssouci palais in Potsdam, a place which had been the subject of Gustav Ucicky's excellent history/romance film Das Flötenkonzert von Sanssouci two years before and in general might be seen as an embodiment of romanticized German history in general. Ich bei Tag und du bei Nacht is thus a very complex examination of the cinema (and as such, the film has received quite a bit of critical attention in the last few years), but the great thing about it is indeed how charming and effortless it is. I can assure you that it gets better with every viewing and seems pretty inexhaustible with its multiple layers of meaning.
Nothing for me to add now, five years later, except that Käthe von Nagy is indeed ultra-charming. ;)
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thirtyframesasecond
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#85 Post by thirtyframesasecond »

Is there a good DVD of Ich bei Tag und du bei Nacht anywhere - I couldn't find anything on Amazon Germany but only a link to a "rare films" type website.
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TMDaines
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#86 Post by TMDaines »

Best way to watch it is via a decent recording of a TV broadcast, which has been shared online. It's never been released anywhere. Feel free to PM me if you want some help to watch it.
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thirtyframesasecond
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#87 Post by thirtyframesasecond »

TMDaines wrote:Best way to watch it is via a decent recording of a TV broadcast, which has been shared online. It's never been released anywhere. Feel free to PM me if you want some help to watch it.
Cheers, just replied to your PM. If I could speak German better than I do, I'd buy this 5TB boxset!

http://www.filmhauer.net/film-collectio ... p-518.html
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swo17
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#88 Post by swo17 »

I'd thought at one point about including a column in the master list that details where films can be found, though so much of the DVD availability is either obvious or varies by region, and I'm not really up on streaming availability. I usually check Film Aficionado first for DVD availability, which is especially good for finding films that are included in collections (like this). If it's not out on DVD, you might check whatever streaming services you have access to, but most likely your only recourse will be the internet backchannels.

Certainly do post here if there is any film on the master list that you are unable to track down.
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domino harvey
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#89 Post by domino harvey »

FYI subbed copies exist out there for every one of these (just not always via retail disc). If you don't have access to back channels, there will be a fairly large cap on how far you can get towards this project's viewing completion, though
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DarkImbecile
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#90 Post by DarkImbecile »

Image
BLUE VELVET
David Lynch 1986

There's probably not much new to be said about Blue Velvet, especially to people participating in a list project like this one, but since this is one of the more striking and unforgettable modern American films on our list of candidates, I'll give it a shot.

Before catching a 30th anniversary screening this past weekend, I hadn't seen this film since my freshman year of college 15 years ago, and despite the passage of time and the VHS quality of that viewing, so many of the images were permanently housed in my memory: The ear. The closet. Isabella Rossellini’s Dorothy stepping out of the shadows, nude and bloody. Dennis Hopper’s Frank grinning with deranged menace behind the plastic mask. What blew me away while seeing it on the big screen for the first time was how many indelible images I hadn't remembered: Ben* and the large women on the couch. Frank’s face smeared with lipstick. Jeffrey's father, hospitalized and immobilized. Gordon's last stand. The flickering candle.

But mind-blowing images and oh-god-what-is-happening-right-now boundary pushing is par for the course with Lynch; what makes Blue Velvet's scenes of depravity and surreality so powerful (and what makes the movie his most popular) are the juxtapositions with the '50s-style dialogue, shot structures, and camera movements of the idyllic daytime scenes in the diners, main street shops, and handsome residential streets of small-town America. Unlike, for example, Eraserhead (which I still can't believe isn't eligible for this list, by the way) - in which the unsettling and uncanny is relentless and uninterrupted by even momentary bursts of recognizable reality, Blue Velvet gives its viewers enough moments of relatable normalcy to make the joyride or the scenes in Dorothy's apartment all the more jarring and unsettling. Like his debut work, however, Blue Velvet features brilliant sound design (to say nothing of the amazing music cues): to name just one example, I was particularly struck by the way the buzzing of the television in the final scene in Dorothy's apartment underlies and adds to the horror of the scene there until it's abruptly silenced just before the climactic moments.

Lynch’s depiction of the trappings of idyllic American life as a patina of respectability barely obscuring the boiling infestation of violence, perversion, and insanity underneath would become one of his standard tropes, but Blue Velvet was his first and, I’d argue, best riff on that theme. Blue Velvet had secured a place on my list from my first viewings, but after this viewing it will almost certainly feature in my top ten; if it’s been a while since you’ve seen it, I heartily recommend a return trip to Lumberton. It’s swell.

*It would feel wrong to say that anyone gives a more memorable performance than Hopper in this film, but Dean Stockwell absolutely steals every second he’s on the screen, with minimal exertion and maximum suave. Speaking of being one suave fucker, this is also secretly one of the most quotable movies of all-time (if you have a certain sense of humor): “That’s for me to know and you to find out…”; “Pabst Blue Ribbon!”; “I’ll fuck anything that moves!”; “I’ll send you a love letter straight from my heart, fucker!”; “He put his disease in me…”; "Now it's dark."
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swo17
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#91 Post by swo17 »

Serious/stupid question: Why does Jeffrey have a pierced ear? I have a hard time reconciling this with his supposed '50s naivety, even if he is interested in exploring the seamier side of things.

Also, because nobody asked for it, I've gone ahead and added runtimes to the master list. Perhaps this will help some of you to better manage your film watching time. Also, now you can easily identify the eligible shorts and/or marvel at how long some of these behemoths are.
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knives
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#92 Post by knives »

Maybe McLachlan just had an earring at the time?
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DarkImbecile
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#93 Post by DarkImbecile »

swo17 wrote:Serious/stupid question: Why does Jeffrey have a pierced ear? I have a hard time reconciling this with his supposed '50s naivety, even if he is interested in exploring the seamier side of things.
This was one of those details that I didn't pick up on the VHS copy playing on my 7" dorm room television, but it seemed in my theatrical viewing like a hugely prominent detail, with many of the dialogue scenes, and especially those with Laura Dern, framed such that the earring is unavoidably visible in the foreground. At first glance I felt that it was merely highlighting that he'd been out in the world (and was perhaps excited to prove it) before coming back home after his father's stroke. As the film went on, the combination of the single earring, the hiding in the closet, the accusations from different characters that he's a "pervert", and Frank's accusation that Jeffrey's "like me" cumulatively underlined that this seemingly all-American young man is hiding the true nature of his sexuality and interests. At one point, one of Frank's entourage/henchmen asks if he's ever been to "pussy heaven", and they all mock him for saying no; he stridently and unconvincingly proclaims his far more culturally-acceptable love for Dern despite his kinkier (to say the least) actions/obsession with Rossellini; a lipstick-smeared Frank covers him in kisses as part of the abusive climax of the joyride.

It all seems to point to the dissonance between the parts of himself he's willing to display publicly and the parts he's compelled to indulge despite his fear of them; if that's right, the earring might represent the tip of the iceberg that Jeffrey's willing to allow to peek out above the waterline.
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domino harvey
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#94 Post by domino harvey »

swo17 wrote:Also, because nobody asked for it, I've gone ahead and added runtimes to the master list. Perhaps this will help some of you to better manage your film watching time. Also, now you can easily identify the eligible shorts and/or marvel at how long some of these behemoths are.
Though technically Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me is the longest, as even though it's a prequel, there's an expectation of having seen the entirety of Twin Peaks beforehand
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swo17
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#95 Post by swo17 »

Heimat is still the longest, given the expectation that you will fit the 25-1/2 hour Heimat II in between the first one's tenth and eleventh episodes.
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domino harvey
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#96 Post by domino harvey »

Don't even joke about that
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knives
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#97 Post by knives »

Speaking of, is the Facets for that completely unwatchable or just bad enough to not be worth buying? The library has a copy and that would be preferable to importing at the moment.
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swo17
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#98 Post by swo17 »

One of their worst releases. Second Sight or nothing.
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domino harvey
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#99 Post by domino harvey »

I picked up the Second Sight for a reasonable price, but it fluctuates like mad. Just keep an eye on it, I picked my copy up for 25£
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zedz
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Re: The All-Time List Discussion Thread

#100 Post by zedz »

swo17 wrote:Heimat is still the longest, given the expectation that you will fit the 25-1/2 hour Heimat II in between the first one's tenth and eleventh episodes.
Very big spoiler:

Except that
Spoiler
the two versions of Hermann's 1960s don't exist in the same continuity. Although watching the first film greatly enhances a viewing of the second, the relationship doesn't work the other way around. I'd even argue that familiarity with Der Zweite Heimat diminishes the first series, since Reitz's second take on that era is much more satisfying and complex.
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