DC Comics on Film

[flyonthewall2983]

Only thing I call into question here is the timing of the announcement. They could have waited until the news of the eventual Blu/DVD release. But because it's being said now makes me side a little with dx23 here.

[Trees]

"Man of Steel" started out well enough, but the last third of the film was pretty much a disaster. Kind of reminded me of the last lightsaber fight in "Sith", which dragged on for like 30 minutes and actually got boring. Same thing with "Man of Steel". These filmmakers need to learn that sometimes less is more.

[tenia]

"Man of Steel" started out well enough, but the last third of the film was pretty much a disaster. Kind of reminded me of the last lightsaber fight in "Sith", which dragged on for like 30 minutes and actually got boring. Same thing with "Man of Steel". These filmmakers need to learn that sometimes less is more.

I share this feeling for Man of Steel, though I much prefer that to the paceless bore that most of the Marvel movies are due to the opposite : a lack of big scale long action scenes (see Iron Man 2 & 3, Thor 1 & 2, Avengers Age of Ultron, Ant Man, ...).
There's also an atmosphere in Man of Steel, something more palatable than in many recent super-hero movies that made it probably the one I ended up liking most (despite the Costner/tornado sequence and many small things that were facepalm-y).

Hopefully, BvS overall pacing and duration of the "destruction porn sequences" will be more balanced.

[captveg]

Only thing I call into question here is the timing of the announcement. They could have waited until the news of the eventual Blu/DVD release. But because it's being said now makes me side a little with dx23 here.

WB didn't announce it. The MPAA announced it as part of their ratings this week.

Think about it: if WB is gonna have the home video release sometime mid-summer, and Snyder has already moved on to Justice League and both cuts are locked, they are already well into production on the bonus content, etc. on the video release.

We found out The Hobbit: Battle of the Five Armies EE was Rated R in early August 2015, but it didn't get a video release until mid-November.

[flyonthewall2983]

I didn't know that. This is the kind of thing I admittedly just go by on headlines.

[captveg]

R Rating was given in September.

"EDITED VERSION. CONTENT IS DIFFERENT FROM PG-13 VERSION, BULLETIN NO. 2393 (9/30/15)"

Link

Like I said - finalized for months now.

[Luke M]

This is sitting at 43% on Rotten Tomatoes with 34 reviews so far. For reference, Man of Steel sits at 56%. Ouch.

[dx23]

This is sitting at 43% on Rotten Tomatoes with 34 reviews so far. For reference, Man of Steel sits at 56%. Ouch.

Was about to post this. My fears are correct, apparently. This film is going to be a critical bomb. It will still make money, but if fans hated, will WB/DC continue to stay the course or will they simply reboot again? Even worse, will they simply quit making superhero films?

[domino harvey]

If they wanted people to want to see this, they should have put Margot Robbie in it

[Trees]

If they wanted people to want to see this, they should have put Margot Robbie in it

:-k

[captveg]

I expect it to end up at 50-60% once all 200+ reviews are in.

Some of the flow issues described re: the first act aside, a lot of the negative reviews are describing things that the film never was going to be. It's not The Avengers style? Thank heavens! More in line with Watchmen? Excellent! That's pretty much in line with at least what I'm expecting. *shrugs*

The critics I usually agree with (Hughes at Forbes, Barker at Variety, Travers at Rolling Stone) liked it. I love Wesley Morris' views, so I'm curious what he'll think. Even when I disagree (maybe 25% of the time) with him I love his insights.

The majority of comic fans seem to have enjoyed it (Mr. Sunday Movies, John Campea, Umberto Gonzalez, Grace Randolph, etc.). We'll see how it goes.

Something Grace Randolph said in her video review has me curious as to how general audiences are going to receive it. She essentially states that it's so zoned in to DC nerd/fanboy sensibilities that some things may not be clear to Joe Public who isn't as grounded in these characters/stories. Her saying it made me think of the Passion of the Christ response dichotomy between believers and non-believers.

[Luke M]

I expect it to end up at 50-60% once all 200+ reviews are in.

I think you're being overly optimistic. It's at 30% with top critics and there's only 10 of them so far.

[Ribs]

They still are going ahead with Suicide Squad obviously and Justice League is just weeks from starting production, but if this does under perform in any way I can easily imagine they have a backup plan that involves throwing Snyder out the door, and blaming him entirely for the failure even though there's no way anybody could have probably met expectations whilst still going ahead with most of the current ideas for Justice League.

[captveg]

Maybe. We'll see.

[dx23]

They still are going ahead with Suicide Squad obviously and Justice League is just weeks from starting production, but if this does under perform in any way I can easily imagine they have a backup plan that involves throwing Snyder out the door, and blaming him entirely for the failure even though there's no way anybody could have probably met expectations whilst still going ahead with most of the current ideas for Justice League.

I can see WB giving the reigns to Affleck or even George Miller after the success of Mad Max. I wouldn't be surprised if Chris Nolan is given enough money and the promise of more personal/art films if he comes and runs with the projects. At worst, they give this to Kevin Smith.

[captveg]

Nah, this is Snyder's baby for the long haul. It's all about $$, and it's gonna make plenty.

[Jeff]

It's all about $$, and it's gonna make plenty.

Yes, but Snyder is doing irreparable damage to one of their most lucrative brands. Wouldn't be surprised to see them cut their losses earlier than originally intended.

[captveg]

Depends on how fans react to it more than critics react to it. Before that gets weighed I'd say it's hard pressed to be considered a damaged brand.

I mean, Transformers gets trashed by critics, but it's fans seem to love them. Is that a "damaged brand"? (I don't care for those movies, and I don't like the actual filmmaking in them, but they seem to deliver what the fan base wants, so it's a success for them).

I don't know - I just think it sucks that making any comic book film outside of the funsies, jokes, and bright lights is considered "wrong". I want comic book adaptations that envoke Straw Dogs, Bicycle Thieves, Oedipus Rex, etc. to be possibilities, too.

Not saying BVS is any of those things, but I'd like to see an end of "its not like Marvel/Avengers" or "it's humorless" be considered valid criticism. Not all good / interest worthy films are laugh riots, or Coca-Cola sameness.

Maybe those films should be relegated to the small budgets only and not Superman and Batman since the inherited baggage on those characters is so dominated by previous interpretations.

[dx23]

I don't know - I just think it sucks that making any comic book film outside of the funsies, jokes, and bright lights is considered "wrong".

It's not about making comic book related films funsies, jokes and bright lights. It's about being faithful to the source material. Many people don't feel that Snyder is doing this. I wouldn't expect or want a Crow film to be bright lights and funsies because the source material doesn't reflect that. The reason why people hated Spider-Man 3 was because it became a bright light, too many jokes, funsies movie that didn't reflect the source material. I have this feeling that critics and people are going to have the same reaction for this film too. It won't be as bad as the newest Fantastic Four (hopefully) but it won't get the critical acclaim you expect and with the amount of money they have spent in filming and marketing, if BvS doesn't do as well as Deadpool, we'll be seeing a new creative team sooner rather than later.

[mfunk9786]

No one is giving anything to Kevin Smith

[captveg]

I never expected it to be a critical darling.

As far as being faithful to the source material or not - there are some SAVAGE Batman and Superman comics out there. I expect it to be faithful to those. The Silver Age died a long time ago.

And like I said, I find the comic fans are generally more positive about it (at least initially) than the mainstream critics (Campea, Randolph, Gonzalez, etc.) That's a good sign to me.

Of course, it's probably impossible for me to dislike this movie as it's right up my alley. But I could very easily have issues with some of the elements of it as a film that have been brought up by critics, such as the flow/pacing issues, or some performances, etc. I'll know for sure on Saturday!

[mfunk9786]

Critics have been giving superhero films an easy ride since Nolan entered the picture. Rave consensus after rave consensus with few exceptions.

[captveg]

Critics have been giving superhero films an easy ride since Nolan entered the picture. Rave consensus after rave consensus with few exceptions.

Right. But they were heavily split on Watchmen and Man of Steel, a film I find to be very good (Watchmen, 8/10) and a film I adore (Man of Steel, 10/10). And that's the type of film I'm expecting.

Nolan's they accepted as "real cinema" because he (very effectively) centered them as crime dramas that happened to feature Batman. I love that series (well, TDKR doesn't quite work as well), but the lack of fantasy / sci-fi elements makes it an easier take to accept for critics, IMO.

Then everything else (MCU, X-Men) is escapist entertainment. Yes, some have a few heavier elements, such as the corrupt government in Winter Soldier, or the racism/prejudice themes in X-Men, but they also have clear heroes and clear villains, and sequences that inspire *joyous* wonder in their fantasy elements (Quicksilver in DoFP).

Now, consider Watchmen. That film is fantasy via existentialism, and a heavy dash of nihilism. There's no joy to be found anywhere. It's certainly not for everyone's taste, but it's a rather stunning film. 65% on rotten tomatoes seems about right to me because of that.

Man of Steel is at 56% on rotten tomatoes, and I get it - the film doesn't have any "cheer for Superman" scenes. I mean, even Superman Returns has the plane rescue, right? But for me, I don't need a cheer for Superman scene because it gave me an awesome sci-fi, "what would a Superman mean for the world and for the man himself" film. For the record, as a capstone to the Donner style, I still really like Superman Returns in spite of its dated sensibilities. But, man was I ready to move on from that, and MoS brought it. Sure, there are some choices that they could have ventured from (the story device of him going to India to tackle the world engine could have been refined), but it still, as a whole, works for me and is a film I could watch countless times.

So that's what I'm expecting in BvS - a MoS/Watchmen hybrid.

[tenia]

It's not The Avengers style? Thank heavens! More in line with Watchmen? Excellent!

Oh god, yes, please.

On the other end, the main issue with BvS seems to be its overlong aspect, which would bring it closer to most of the latest Marvel productions than Watchmen or Man of Steel (which are long, sure, but don't seem overlong to me, certainly not Watchmen).

[Werewolf by Night]

If we're taking bets on the future of the series, I'm staking mine on Snyder being removed after Justice League with Warner Bros. publicly congratulating him for his fine work and his unique vision while stating that his involvement was always intended to be limited to establishing the DC cinematic universe. Regardless, I couldn't care less about Zack Snyder or these DC movies.