1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 3)

[domino harvey]

Yes, had I looked closer I would have seen there's also a rip with custom subs of the DVD:

[Michael Kerpan]

Eventually at some point I will try to get the DVD version -- the set is only about twice as expensive as VHS copies listed on Amazon. ;~}

[bamwc2]

Not knowing how long it was when I started it, I'm now happy to report that I'm 1/14 of the way through The Satin Slipper! Has anyone else here tackled this behemoth?

[zedz]

Speaking of behemoths, I hope everybody is leaving enough time to get to and through Heimat, Berlin Alexanderplatz and Shoah. You haven't really done the 80s until you've seen those films.

[swo17]

And Dekalog of course. And try to get Heimat from the UK. 16 hours with the Facets edition is excruciating.

[bamwc2]

Zedz and Swo, Heimet is the only one of those that I haven't seen, though two of the ones that you listed will likely be in my top ten. One of them may even be my number one.

[zedz]

See Heimat and it might be a threesome!

[bamwc2]

See Heimat and it might be a threesome!

Did AE put that one out years ago r was that one of the sequels?

[domino harvey]

I've seen Dekalog and Berlin Alexanderplatz, neither will be making my list (and outside of the segment with the father and daughter, I don't even like Dekalog). Shoah's in the unwatched war stockpile, and might pick up Heimat (bmwac2: Second Sight did the original and the sequel) with my next overseas order, even though my unwatched reserves are so absurdly large at this juncture that I'm a dozen titles away from a Hoarders episode

[bamwc2]

Oh, do watch Shoah! It's a grueling, heartbreaking experience, but one that I think every human being should have.

[zedz]

I think Die Zweite Heimat is even better than the first one, and it will probably be number two on my 90s list, so I'd definitely recommend splurging if you're planning to order the first set.

Oh, and Heimat the first can do double duty for the war list, too.

[swo17]

So if you think about it, it's really only an eight hour movie!

[bamwc2]

Oh, and Heimat the first can do double duty for the war list, too.

So can Shoah and Berlin Alexanderplatz.

[zedz]

So if you think about it, it's really only an eight hour movie!

What are you talking about? According to imdb, it's only ninety minutes long. Is there some extended director's cut or something all you guys have seen?

You could also rationalize the length by reminding yourself that it's only 60% as long as Die Zweite Heimat, even though it covers 600% of its timeframe!

[Tommaso]

Not knowing how long it was when I started it, I'm now happy to report that I'm 1/14 of the way through The Satin Slipper! Has anyone else here tackled this behemoth?

I have, see page 25 of this thread. Don't give up.

[bamwc2]

Not knowing how long it was when I started it, I'm now happy to report that I'm 1/14 of the way through The Satin Slipper! Has anyone else here tackled this behemoth?

I have, see page 25 of this thread. Don't give up.

Thanks. As of last night I'm now 2/7 of the way through!

[Red Screamer]

Peggy Sue Got Married (Coppola, 1986)
Worth seeing, really only for Nicholas Cage's hilarious performance. If his reaction to Peggy Sue's car seduction doesn't make you laugh, I don't know what will.

Lifeforce (Hooper, 1985)
This is the most fun I've had at the movies in quite a while. Any film that can pack alien invasion, space exploration, pyscho-sexual violence, zombies, apocalyptic horror, naked vampires, Steve Railsback chewing scenery, and special effects that are at once truly awful and truly horrifying into less than two hours is worth your time. It's really astonishing that something this insane was ever made. I'll probably try to sneak this into my 50th slot, and I urge anyone who enjoys crazy B movies to see it.

Born on the Forth of July (Stone, 1989)
A huge disappointment. I was hoping that Oliver Stone could make this already interesting story into a great film, but what I got instead was An Important Lesson like the ones Frank Capra used to preach. It starts out with many good elements at its disposal, but turns one after another into cliche and then piles cliches on top of those. The main reason why Born on the Fourth of July doesn't work for me is Tom Cruise's ridiculous performance. He is so over the top that it distracts from everything else onscreen. For a story that requires empathy, Cruise's star persona and then Crazy Guy Acting 101 schtick make it unbelievable that the character is a real human being.

Do the Right Thing (Lee, 1989)
The filmic equivalent of an electric shock. Seeing this film again, the thing that struck me the most (other than how beautiful it looks in 35mm) was Lee's comedic touch for the majority of the picture. The first half is so funny and entertaining that the sense of dread for what I knew would happen was deeper than ever. This will be near, if not on, the very top of my list. I assume most of the board has seen this, but if you get a chance to see it on a big screen, I highly recommend doing so.

The Fly (Cronenberg, 1986)
My first Cronenberg (I know, where have I been?) and, after this, I will certainly be seeking out more. The Fly is a film that elicits strong reactions from the audience: I was laughing, groaning, and just plain gaping for most of the running time. It also works as a Jeff Goldblum palette cleanser after The Big Chill, especially since this is his best performance I've seen so far. This role essentially covers the gamut, and he hits every note with ease. The key to creating a believable fly, apart from the fantastic makeup and effects, is Goldblum's voice. A thoroughly unenjoyable experience, in the most enjoyable way.

Diner (Levinson, 1982)
For some reason the 80s are full of ensemble comedies about friendship, but this is the only one I've seen so far that really connects. Diner shows how a group of people relate and interact with each other. The cast and writing are genuinely funny and there are several scenes that made me uncomfortable because of how closely they resembled my own experiences. I defy any collectors here to not cringe at Daniel Stern's "Don't touch my records" scene. Thanks to domino harvey for the recommendation!

Modern Romance (Brooks, 1981)
One of the most uncomfortable films ever made. Albert Brooks shows humanity at it's most pathetic, desperate, and insecure, and does it with great humor. Modern Romance is much more effective in depicting unhealthy romantic obsession and delusion than the much more heralded Raging Bull. Not only is this a great film about modern romance, but it's also a great film about modern filmmaking, with the editing scenes being some of the funniest I've seen yet in this project. With this and Broadcast News, Albert Brooks will have a very strong showing on my list.

Meetin' WA (Godard, 1986)
A strange and amusing meeting of two directors who had great streaks in the 80s. I keep cracking up at JLG in that last scene. I doubt it will make any lists but it's still of interest.

[knives]

The NeverEnding Story
I haven't seen this in roughly forever and this is my first time seeing it since reading the rather excellent book which probably has skewed my viewing significantly. That said my first impressions are mostly in how '80s the film is with Erasure opening things up and the coloured swirls which encapsulate the fantasy world. It's really only a notable thing since the 'real world' sequences try so hard to gather a timelessness and do effectively present a mixture of eras that differentiates the film from the other kids movies of the era. In that same way its interesting how little culturally the film avoids looking anything other than German despite the english language and accents. That said the film truly succeeds as adaptation where it counts presenting a pretty idealized fantasy world that truly looks and feels dead. Everyone is used to putting on a happy face so they do even acting out as comedic fools (the narcoleptic bat and racing snail just to give the first two examples) while realizing they simply don't have the time for that. It's a bit unfortunate not to see the whole book on film, but the movie is probably all the better for it. I most certainly appreciate this slim 95 minute straight shot over the mumbled garbage a more literal translation probably would have provided.

Eight Men Out
The film has a little too much fun especially early on contrasting ideas of the era with the realities, but fortunately Sayles absorbs himself in the mechanics of the cheat and plays with the dialogue so quickly that this negative is easy to forget about in the moment. I suppose the biggest portrait of this negative is also one of the best elements: the visual style. It's bright and colourful and really hits home how cute baseball is seen as. It doesn't hint at the goings on at all visually buying the myth of baseball. It's more than a bit cartoonish and doesn't support the script at all. Yet it is for those very reasons it kind of works. There's a vapid irony to how the sights connect to the story which tells fully how the myth is hopeless which a more serious style might not bore out. It even manages to make those kids at the start seem useless.

Bad Boys
Some of the elements are more than a little overwrought, but overall as an update to those old juvenile delinquent films this is pretty good. It's probably most interesting when compared to The Mayor of Hell and the like given how the shift away from the adults to the children started moving. It's also a bit interesting to see how it tries to combine forms of the genre with the outside being directly tied to the inside though it doesn't go too deep into that. Unfortunately outside of a cog in the genre their isn't much to note on screen.

Breaker Morant
This doesn't do anything unique with the court marshal form, but it makes up for that in doing this old song so excellently. The cinematography is elegant and indicates gracefulness without showing off or getting in its own way, the acting is universally excellent with everyone adding a nice crink to the moral simplicity of the script by virtue of their faces, and even the sparse use of sound add up to pretty high (if not unique) entertainment.

Walker
This makes me really curious to see what Cox's Fear and Loathing would have been like. Harris' performance and especially narration has this Thompson vibe to it that makes the film seem like genuine Gonzo cinema. The movie doesn't really sustain the weirder elements, but even when it goes into the "Lawrence unites the Arabs" sequence the film is really good with a crazed look in Harris' eye and a score which I could listen to for days. Usually I hate these '80s style scores in period films, but it fits the world developed completely.

Valley Girl
I don't know why, but I was hoping significantly more than this. Something like Clueless with fascinating slang and quiet dissemination of then contemporary subcultures lying in the background of at least a decent romance. The last act breakup here is so melodramatic and nonsensical I was tempted to just stop watching there. It exists for no reason other than to make conflict, but couldn't work under any circumstances given that the characterization of their romance is basically they fall deeply in love because they see each other at a party. In the end this is just Grease updated and somehow made worse in terms of anything related to characters. The closest the film comes to to being a good movie is when Cage auditions for Leaving Las Vegas by boning that woman in the bar near the end. Good soundtrack also.

Sophie's Choice
I suppose the obvious thing to do is compliment Streep's performance which negates every middlebrow thing she's ever done, but that seems like a well known enough fact that I'll only reiterate once. Even in the scenes where she could show-off (Dickens) she plays it small as if teasing for that last scene which is like the most worthwhile purchase. The main plot is a fairly generic riff on the Cabaret structure, but Sophie's own story away from the narrator is amazing particularly in how it doesn't follow the dry holocaust drama story at all instead forging a still unique set of character interactions (it helps that most of the character is Kevin Kline. The film is also visually amazing in a way I couldn't have expected (beyond the knowledge of who made it). The different interactions with characters all have different textures. It is as if the introduction of forces alter the frame itself by way of a physical personality. None of it looks like anything of the past two decades in-spite of the use of colour. The flashback meet-up with Kline especially has this still washed out and re-dyed look to it. The red has an artificial tinted quality to it like an aged Bergman print. It makes the apartment look like a casket at times which contradicts the mood of the scenes perfectly. If only it was their show instead of MacNichol's it's be perfect. It's also a fairly daring choice to keep Europe off the screen until far in. It's another tease that helps make the language work. In fact I'd go so far as to say that the absence of Holocaust imagery in motion is the perfect visual solution to the aural problem of dialogue. Hyperbole for a work which probably isn't even in its director's top five certainly, but well earned.

[thirtyframesasecond]

Distant Voices, Still Lives - not just one of the key British films of the 80s, but one of the best films in the decade anywhere. Davies' film of a Liverpudlian working class family (filmed in Islington, London by and large though!) in the 1940s and 1950s is so masterly; it's like Michael Powell made a kitchen sink drama.

[TMDaines]

I think Die Zweite Heimat is even better than the first one, and it will probably be number two on my 90s list, so I'd definitely recommend splurging if you're planning to order the first set.

Oh, and Heimat the first can do double duty for the war list, too.

Now that someone has brought up Heimat and its second series/sequel, I wish to ask about how we tend to differentiate between mini-series with sequels and TV series (which aren't eligible)?

I had been pondering this for Forbrydelsen that until about a year ago was listed as three separate mini-series on IMDb, from 2007, 2009 and 2012 respectively, but is now just listed as another long-running TV series, unfortunately. I say "unfortunately", because Forbrydelsen is a different breed than your standard American show, as the three mini-series are very self-contained stories with only the protagonist (and her boss) appearing in each one. Her son and the occasional minor colleague might also show up across multiple series, but even her major colleagues and the politicians that the case effects are different in each one. The three mini-series of Forbrydelsen are truly mini-series in the spirit of the art form, even though they colloquially are referred to as "seasons" now.

In other words, there is surely a need to differentiate between a sequence of mini-series, which are each self-contained, were perhaps released irregularly, yet that still may act as sequels to one another or otherwise, and a TV series that has season after season churned out indefinitely until it is no longer in demand.

Edit: Adding missing word to sentence

[Feego]

It's been a while since I last checked in, and unfortunately I haven't had as much time lately to watch movies as I'd like, but here's what I've seen:

Labyrinth (1986, Jim Henson)
This is one I had not seen before, and I’m sorry to say that although I’m a big Jim Henson fan, this movie did absolutely nothing for me. It presents the tried-and-true scenario of a young heroine stepping into a fantasy world where just about anything and everything can happen, but it lacks the clever puzzles and satire that made Wonderland so charming, and it doesn’t have the warmth and camaraderie that Dorothy encountered in Oz, so instead we are left with a visually dazzling but empty demo reel for Henson’s puppet creations. Jennifer Connelly is wooden in the lead (she was much better a year earlier in Dario Argento’s Phenomena, a film she has repeatedly trashed in interviews), and David Bowie’s pop-singing villain is not formidable enough to register as even a mild threat.

Ms. 45 (1981, Abel Ferrara)
I have only been left cold (and nauseated) by my previous experiences with Ferrara, so color me surprised to find Ms. 45 not only an incredibly smart and complex entry in the dubious rape-revenge cycle of the period but also one of my favorite films I have viewed for this project so far. Displaying a closer connection (dare I say sisterhood?) with Polanski’s Repulsion than the wretched I Spit On Your Grave and its grindhouse ilk, Ferrara’s movie does not glorify or attempt to justify its victimized heroine’s vigilantism. Thana’s post-rape transformation from mousy recluse to sexy siren is clearly motivated first by damaging fear and ultimately hatred of the male sex because of her abuse, and while her empowerment may at first seem a positive, it soon becomes evident that along with her inhibitions she has also lost her grasp on reality as well as basic human compassion. She is driven solely by her single-minded quest to rid the world of her perceived enemies (a little bit of Travis Bickle), and it’s testament to both Ferrara and lead actress Zoe Tamerlis that she earns our sympathy even as she commits unspeakable crimes. For a director who only a few years earlier helmed a movie called The Driller Killer, Ferrara displays strong sensitivity, particularly in the scene immediately following the rape in which Thana has a series of PTSD-like hallucinations. Tamerlis is just incredible in a basically silent performance, making Thana a truly complicated and tragic character. And I must disagree with Domino about the final shot, as I think it adds a final, touching sign that Thana had not completely lost her humanity.

The Fog (1980, John Carpenter)
John Carpenter’s second horror feature has the feel of a good, old-fashioned campfire tale, and not just because it starts out with one. This is the kind of horror movie where I can forgive plot holes and lapses in logic because it does such a fantastic job building eerie atmosphere and nervous tension. In fact, I would go so far as to say that this is an even more fun Halloween movie than Carpenter’s more famous holiday staple! The characters are a hodgepodge of entertaining types, from Janet Leigh’s high-strung mayor and her sarcastic assistant (Nancy Loomis) to strapping Tom Atkins who immediately jumps into bed with flirtatious hitchhiker Jamie Lee Curtis. But it’s Adrienne Barbeau who creates the strongest impression as a divorced disc jockey who performs her radio program from a remote light house. I don’t believe she shares any scenes with any other actors, except the young boy who plays her son, which interestingly makes her vulnerable in her isolation but also gives her a God’s-eye perspective of the mounting horror and the power to instruct others to find safety.

They Live (1988, John Carpenter)
This is pure cheese in the very best sense of the word. Perhaps more than any other Carpenter film I’ve seen (I haven’t gotten around to his remake of The Thing), this one truly shows off the director’s indebtedness to the sci-fi allegories of the 50s. Rowdy Roddy Piper plays a walking hulk of blue-collar muscles who is awaken from his complacency by a pair of sunshades that give him the ability to see the subliminal messages conveyed through the media and the alien life forms posing as humans that are controlling the media. Carpenter’s take on 80s blind conformity spells everything out for the audience, which somehow seems entirely appropriate and not condescending. This is the kind of movie that yells “Wake up stupid!” rather than gently nudging us into discussion. It’s a message we’ve heard over and over again, and as such, there’s no point in pretending that the film is uncovering some monumental revelation. It takes the paranoia of the past three decades and gives it a good swift kick in the balls from a hero who could only exist in the 80s.

Nine to Five (1980, Colin Higgins)
A lightweight paean to the women’s lib movement, Nine to Five is a consistently amusing movie if not the Girl Power battle cry its creators seem to think it is. It follows a trio of secretaries -- Lily Tomlin as the jaded working mom who has been passed over for promotion numerous times, Dolly Parton as the friendly country girl who is sexually degraded by both her boss and the other women, and Jane Fonda as a naïve newcomer in the workforce -- as they first fantasize about and then set out to take revenge on their male chauvinist boss (Dabney Coleman, who would go on to play virtually the same character in Tootsie). The first third of the movie paints a believable and funny picture of an oppressive office environment and is truly the best part of the film. The second and third acts go into some weird farcical territory that, while still funny, take the movie more toward feminist fantasy and don’t have the same level of grounded relatability. Director/screenwriter Colin Higgins does nothing all too interesting visually, except during the film’s celebrated sequences in which the three stars fantasize about doing Coleman in. The best of these is Tomlin’s, which sees her as a devious Snow White surrounded by cheerfully complicit, animated animal sidekicks. The film really belongs to the actresses though, especially Tomlin and Parton, whose chemistry carries the movie even when it gets bogged down by its second act complications.

[bamwc2]

Born on the Forth of July (Stone, 1989)
A huge disappointment. I was hoping that Oliver Stone could make this already interesting story into a great film, but what I got instead was An Important Lesson like the ones Frank Capra used to preach. It starts out with many good elements at its disposal, but turns one after another into cliche and then piles cliches on top of those. The main reason why Born on the Fourth of July doesn't work for me is Tom Cruise's ridiculous performance. He is so over the top that it distracts from everything else onscreen. For a story that requires empathy, Cruise's star persona and then Crazy Guy Acting 101 schtick make it unbelievable that the character is a real human being.

I don't think that I could disagree with you any more than I do on this. I'm not a big fan of Oliver Stone or Tom Cruise, but both were at the top of their game in this one. Hell, I'd say that Cruise was never better than he was in his portrayal of Ron Kovic.

[bamwc2]

Feego, I wasn't a fan of Ms. 45, but the main character's only line in the film...

Spoiler

A plaintive "Sister" after being stabbed by another woman during a shooting spree directed against the men at a party

is truly unforgettable.

[Feego]

Feego, I wasn't a fan of Ms. 45, but the main character's only line in the film...

Spoiler

A plaintive "Sister" after being stabbed by another woman during a shooting spree directed against the men at a party

is truly unforgettable.

And oddly enough, I didn't even understand what she said when I first watched the film. But yes that is a great moment. And of course...

Spoiler

it's quite significant how the female stabber holds the knife.

[zedz]

I think Die Zweite Heimat is even better than the first one, and it will probably be number two on my 90s list, so I'd definitely recommend splurging if you're planning to order the first set.

Oh, and Heimat the first can do double duty for the war list, too.

Now that someone has brought up Heimat and its second series/sequel, I wish to ask about we tend to differentiate between mini-series with sequels and TV series (which aren't eligible)?

Traditionally, a mini-series was something funded and produced and broadcast as a single, limited production, with no intent of continuation as a series, and generally had a single director and production team (though there are immediate exceptions to that rule, such as Kieslowski's deliberate use of different cinematographers in Dekalog). If a second mini-series (e.g. The Kingdom II) happened to follow along some time later, they can be treated like individual movies.

A TV series which only ever had a single season isn't a mini-series, however much I'd like to include The Day Today on my 90s list.

There are probably some examples that would be very hard to decide upon (though nothing springs to mind), but every example that's been brought up to date has been pretty clearly one thing or the other if you stick to first principles.

Heimat and its 'sequel' (when you see them you'll realize the relationship between the two is much more problematic than that - the English "Heimat 2" is not what Reitz primarily meant by the film's actual title) actually don't even figure into this discussion, since they were screened theatrically from the outset. Die Zweite Heimat debuted at Venice. And unfortunately, one of Heimat's fundamental cinematic techniques - the subtle play of texture between different filmstocks - is largely lost on TV and the existing DVDs.