1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 3)

[Feego]

Maniac (1980, William Lustig)
After a single viewing, I haven’t quite been able to gauge how I feel about this movie. It’s a grimy, repellant experience that makes you want to take a shower afterword, and that is one of its strengths. Character actor Joe Spinell is frighteningly believable as the greasy slob who stalks and kills women around New York City and converses with himself in Norman Bates fashion when he’s alone in his apartment. The obvious Psycho-riffing is gimmicky and doesn’t really offer much in the way of interesting character development, as is also the case with a totally unbelievable romance between Spinell and gorgeous fashion photographer Caroline Munro. Where the movie excels (for better or for worse) is in creating an atmosphere of inescapable doom for its various female victims, particularly a nurse who finds herself trapped in a subway restroom. The tension is so unbearable, that in an ugly, deeply nihilistic way, it’s almost a relief when the she is killed just to end the suspense. On the surface, there is little to redeem this movie except the expert way in which it goes about disgusting the viewer, and yet I can’t so easily dismiss it either. Another viewing somewhere down the road is in order, but not for a very long time.

The Little Mermaid (1989, John Musker & Ron Clements)
As the film that kick-started the so-called Disney Renaissance of the late 80s-mid 90s, The Little Mermaid carries a lot of baggage that frankly I’m not prepared to discuss. Rather, I just want to focus on the film itself, which is a brisk, spirited adaptation of Hans Christian Andersen’s far more depressing fairy tale. The original story of doomed romance is turned into a modern coming-of-age tale with mermaid Ariel longing to break free from her father’s stifling protection and travel beyond the familiar. Because of the strict social limitations imposed upon her, she is driven to make a Faustian deal in which she sacrifices both her true identity and her primary means of communication in order to attain what she believes will make her happy. Andersen wrote a bleak conclusion to his heroine’s search for new experiences, but the Disney film offers a more hopeful picture of different worlds coming together in understanding. Some may call it saccharine and manipulative, and maybe it is, but I’m a sucker for Disney, and I’m not ashamed to admit that I sing along to “Under the Sea” every time.

[domino harvey]

I recommend watching some of the fascinating period-drawn extras on the second disc of the Blue Underground release of Maniac, as they go a long way towards contextualizing the film's impact and the outcry at its female-directed horrors. When seen through the lens of this being a movie made to effect not the widest young audience possible (the general MO for slashers, despite the incorrect assumption that the primary audience for the genre was men-- see Newell's Blood Money for corroboration) but city-dwelling women, it is one of the more interesting slashers of the era, despite being, as you mention, pretty repellent.

And aren't all fairy tales manipulative?

[jindianajonz]

a brisk, spirited adaptation of Hans Christian Andersen’s far more depressing fairy tale.

If you want a depressing adapation of a depressing HCA fairy tale, check to see if your version of Little Mermaid has the Little Match Girl included.

[Feego]

I recommend watching some of the fascinating period-drawn extras on the second disc of the Blue Underground release of Maniac

I will have to check those out at some point (I only had the first disc from Netflix). It's not unlike the vast number of violent urban legends, most famously that of the killer calling the babysitter from inside the house, being geared toward women, some as cautionary tales and some more sadistically meant to exploit their fears. The fact that none of the women in the movie really have anything in common, coming from all walks of life and a couple of them not even being alone, really drives home how unsafe the world (at least in the film) is for them. Of course, men are clearly not safe either, and it's interesting that Tom Savini saved the most explicitly spectacular death for himself!

And aren't all fairy tales manipulative?

Pretty much. I do think part of the pleasure of watching a Disney cartoon, or indeed of reading a fairy tale, is in allowing yourself to be taken in by what are essentially moral life lessons. Where Disney is known and often criticized for sugarcoating these stories, I don't thinks it's necessarily to a fault. One of the things I appreciate about the best Disney films, both classical and contemporary, is how they balance the darker elements with a more hopeful sensibility than the Grimm brothers or HCA generally had.

If you want a depressing adapation of a depressing HCA fairy tale, check to see if your version of Little Mermaid has the Little Match Girl included.

Are you referring to the Jean Renoir version or a Disney version? I've never seen any film adaptation of "The Little Match Girl," and I haven't read the story since I was probably about 8 years old.

[jindianajonz]

I was referring to a Disney version. It was on the Platinum DVD from about 10 years ago, but I'm not sure if it's on the most recent Blu-ray. It's only a short, maybe 10 minutes long, and I think directed by one of the Little Mermaid directors (though I may be wrong)

[Mr Sausage]

And aren't all fairy tales manipulative?

A lot of them are arbitrary and reflect a subconscious irrationality.

[Feego]

I was referring to a Disney version. It was on the Platinum DVD from about 10 years ago, but I'm not sure if it's on the most recent Blu-ray. It's only a short, maybe 10 minutes long, and I think directed by one of the Little Mermaid directors (though I may be wrong)

Yes, I just checked and it is on the Blu-ray, and I will give it a watch tonight. Thanks for the recommendation!

[Gregory]

My favorite adaptation of the Andersen story is The Little Match Seller, directed by James Williamson in 1902. I've seen the Renoir but don't remember it that clearly.

[Gropius]

I know it belongs to the last round, but while we're on the subject of Andersen, I reiterate my recommendation of Karel Kachňya's Little Mermaid (1976), which has some great undersea costumes and sets.

Central and Eastern Europe continued making high quality fairy tale films into the 80s (both animated and live action), in a tradition that was largely unchanged since the 40s. Almost none of them are available from Western labels (Second Run should consider them), and, while many can be found through backchannels, few have been subtitled. These films tend to be 'naïve' in a manner that could be distantly compared to Disney, but the tone, like the original Andersen stories, is often darker and more melancholic. They belong to a popular, vernacular cinema (shown on TV at Christmas in these countries), unlikely to enter the international arthouse canon (although the popular/arthouse distinction blurs, particularly in Czechoslovakia).*

I haven't properly looked into the 80s ones yet, but one I have seen is an Estonian version of 'The Wild Swans', Metsluiged (Helle Karis, 1987 - trailer here), which was charmingly low-key. It's true that Andersen's tales have a rather disturbing emphasis on young girls suffering, though: the price of the Little Mermaid's human form is to feel as if she is walking on knives, while the girl in 'The Wild Swans' is forced to pick stinging nettles repeatedly in an attempt to save her brothers.

*Chytilová's The Jester and the Queen (1988) looks particularly intriguing.

[swo17]

Speaking of fairy tales, might I suggest Neil Jordan's atmospheric, way-too-terrifying-for-children children's movie The Company of Wolves. Sadly, no mermaids here, though there are plenty of domino's second favorite allegedly fictional creature:

Spoiler

Slappy the Dummy

[colinr0380]

I recommend watching some of the fascinating period-drawn extras on the second disc of the Blue Underground release of Maniac, as they go a long way towards contextualizing the film's impact and the outcry at its female-directed horrors. When seen through the lens of this being a movie made to effect not the widest young audience possible (the general MO for slashers, despite the incorrect assumption that the primary audience for the genre was men-- see Newell's Blood Money for corroboration) but city-dwelling women, it is one of the more interesting slashers of the era, despite being, as you mention, pretty repellent.

I haven't seen Maniac yet (I know, what am I doing with my life) but I have seen Lustig's film that followed that, Vigilante, which continues with that urban-terror theme of terrorising city-dwellers (and women in particular) before our hero falls in with a gang of concerned citizens to clean up the place and revenge his murdered wife and child. It sounds as if it would be interesting to do a compare and contrast with those two films, even if Vigilante is of course extremely Death Wish-influenced.

[Feego]

Vigilante is on my to-see list for this project, although I have yet to see Death Wish, which I may have to see beforehand just for the sake of comparison. Maniac is my first Lustig, and although it left me a little ambivalent, I'm interested in seeing more of his work. Are the Maniac Cop films worth checking out?

[knives]

Yeah, they aren't anywhere as slimy as Maniac, but they're good, creepy, fun that get progressively more weird as they go along. That's not even going into the excellent touches that Larry Cohen adds to them (and Uncle Sam) to put them a few heads above the rest.

[Feego]

Which reminds me I've never seen any of Larry Cohen's movies either.

[domino harvey]

The Stuff from this decade is worth sitting thru if just for Michael Moriarty's "Southerner"

[knives]

Definitely, though his blaxsploitation films from the last decade are my favorite of his. Q is some fun too. Speaking of fun low rent things of questionable quality yet maximum enjoyment apparently Stuart Gordon made a fun little safety video introduced by Count Floyd himself. I do not know why I found this so damned watchable.

[Yojimbo]

Which reminds me I've never seen any of Larry Cohen's movies either.

Which reminds me: I must check out 'God's Told Me To' and see whether it's everything it's cracked up to be, now that I seem to be able to play my home-made DVD-Rs on my new region-free player,.

[Cold Bishop]

In my opinion, God Told Me To is probably the most ambitious of his horror films, but if cracks under its heady subject matter (gender, sexuality, faith).

All his 70s films are golden, but I'll especially go to bat for Black Caesar, which for all its blax-attitude is a fairly classical gangster film (and features, in my opinion, the greatest use of a date/year superimposition). And The Private Files of J. Edgar Hoover, an absolutely acidic portrait of American political life on both sides of the aisle.

I can't say any of his '80s films jump out at me, but I'm willing to be convinced.

[Yojimbo]

I'm sure I must have 'Black Caesar', somewhere.

I've got a fascinating paperback - somewhere - penned by Hoover: 'Masters of Deceit', I think it's called. Not his life-story, alas, but I think a 'Reefer Madness' style 'Reds under the bed' scare story.

[colinr0380]

This is all more appropriate for the just-past 70s list but when you watch God Told Me To yojimbo watch out for Andy Kaufman's cameo as a gun-toting policeman going on a shooting rampage during a St Patrick's Day parade! And I wonder if the sniper sequence from Bunuel's The Phantom of Liberty was any influence on all the people suddenly dropping to the ground in front of surprised onlookers in the Cohen film!

Spoilers for God Told Me To:

Spoiler

Plus if you have ever wanted to see Sylvia Sidney get involved in an utterly bizarre flashback UFO impregnation scene (rather than destroy the aliens by playing Slim Whitman at them, as she did in Mars Attacks! much later!), then this is the film for you!

[domino harvey]

A Fish Called Wanda (Charles Crichton 1988) I'm not a huge Monty Python fan but I still expected more out of this highly acclaimed and popular comedy (written by John Cleese and starring Cleese and Michael Palin among others) than a rag-tag bunch of farce scenes and some game but by no means extraordinary performances. Kevin Kline won an Oscar for playing a character who seems designed to be everything foreigners assume Americans are (dumb, brash, vulgar, &c), which is fine, but while I do think Kline gives the most spirited perf in the film, I'm not as convinced that it was funny enough to merit such recognition (and the film was also nom'd for Best Director, so I was in the minority overall on this one). I laughed a couple times, sure, but not nearly as much as I thought I would-- the film is just too messy and not funny enough in its belabored mechinations to work for me.

D.O.A. (Rocky Morton and Annabel Jankel 1988) The creators of TV's Max Headroom branched out into film with this unusual but not particularly good update of the Edmond O'Brien noir staple. The original film's reputation has been inflated by its omnipresent availability on TV and home video thanks to its PD status, and so I don't think a remake of this particular film is trampling on any sacred works of cinematic art. For all the wild changes the film makes, it at least has the good sense to keep the infamous opening scene and declaration. From there, though, it turns into a weird-o college campus tale that takes "publish or perish" literally. The whodunnit aspect becomes futile as the film keeps heaping murder and after murder at the viewer, and the presence of one name actor who is seemingly underused gives away who did it even if the "why" doesn't become clear until much later (and even then the reasoning is so flawed and dumb and filled with logical errors that it's amazing anyone involved graduated high school, much less teaches at a college). For all the flashiness and strange updating (Dennis Quaid superglues his hand to Meg Ryan's wrist?!), on a basic level this just isn't any good.

Great Balls of Fire! (Jim McBride 1989) I remember catching the second half of this on cable years ago and being surprised at how much better it was than I'd have expected. Finally seeing the whole thing doesn't change my assessment: If all biopics were this fast and loose and focused on one aspect with clarity and a sense of humor from all involved, they wouldn't be such a chore to sit through. This movie isn't concerned with celebrating or even telling the life story of Jerry Lee Lewis, just the lengths of his courtship and eventual marriage to his cousin's thirteen-year-old daughter. That such a potentially volatile and tasteless scenario is played strictly for broad laughs and a wild comic energy befitting an actual Lewis performance is part of the brilliance of its stylistic gambit. This movie would not work, period, were it not for the great comic work of Dennis Quaid, utterly disappearing into Lewis, and Winona Ryder as his bright-eyed child bride. Both actors clearly got the memo that whoever overacts the most gets a pizza party and neither is afraid to completely chew every pastel piece of formica scenery in sight. This is a film that you either greet on its wavelength or turn off after ten minutes or so, but I recommend running the risk.

Tin Men (Barry Levinson 1987) Clearly I've been seeing the wrong Levinson pics, because he's now earned another spot on my tentative list with this treatment of middle aged con men in early 60s Baltimore. I love movies that tell me how to do something, and some of the best passages in the film let our aluminum siding salesmen work their magic on poor saps who think they're gonna show up in Life magazine or earn a commission based on the blatant appeals to a period-specific vanity borne of conformity. This is also one of the few films I can think of that takes a tired and well-worn premise-- two rivals hate each other and eventually earn the other's respect-- and makes the final begrudging respect and camaraderie feel real and earned. And it does so while being endlessly entertaining, as we eavesdrop on everyday conversations and arguments that are captured and constructed with as much wit as the earlier Diner-- arguments over what one salesman had for breakfast the previous day, on why Bonanza is a flawed TV program, whatever, it's breaking every dumb screenplay rule about dialog moving a story forward. The characters and the dialog, they are the story. The narrative is just something to hang all the funny and observant exchanges on.

[Yojimbo]

Great Balls of Fire! (Jim McBride 1989) I remember catching the second half of this on cable years ago and being surprised at how much better it was than I'd have expected. Finally seeing the whole thing doesn't change my assessment: If all biopics were this fast and loose and focused on one aspect with clarity and a sense of humor from all involved, they wouldn't be such a chore to sit through. This movie isn't concerned with celebrating or even telling the life story of Jerry Lee Lewis, just the lengths of his courtship and eventual marriage to his cousin's thirteen-year-old daughter. That such a potentially volatile and tasteless scenario is played strictly for broad laughs and a wild comic energy befitting an actual Lewis performance is part of the brilliance of its stylistic gambit. This movie would not work, period, were it not for the great comic work of Dennis Quaid, utterly disappearing into Lewis, and Winona Ryder as his bright-eyed child bride. Both actors clearly got the memo that whoever overacts the most gets a pizza party and neither is afraid to completely chew every pastel piece of formica scenery in sight. This is a film that you either greet on its wavelength or turn off after ten minutes or so, but I recommend running the risk.

Tin Men (Barry Levinson 1987) Clearly I've been seeing the wrong Levinson pics, because he's now earned another spot on my tentative list with this treatment of middle aged con men in early 60s Baltimore. I love movies that tell me how to do something, and some of the best passages in the film let our aluminum siding salesmen work their magic on poor saps who think they're gonna show up in Life magazine or earn a commission based on the blatant appeals to a period-specific vanity borne of conformity. This is also one of the few films I can think of that takes a tired and well-worn premise-- two rivals hate each other and eventually earn the other's respect-- and makes the final begrudging respect and camaraderie feel real and earned. And it does so while being endlessly entertaining, as we eavesdrop on everyday conversations and arguments that are captured and constructed with as much wit as the earlier Diner-- arguments over what one salesman had for breakfast the previous day, on why Bonanza is a flawed TV program, whatever, it's breaking every dumb screenplay rule about dialog moving a story forward. The characters and the dialog, they are the story. The narrative is just something to hang all the funny and observant exchanges on.

Agree completely on the wretched D.O.A. remake, Dom; and Wanda.
I know I enjoyed Tin Men' on first - and maybe even second - viewing, but I don't think it holds up as well as 'Diner'.

But I couldn't agree more on Great Balls of Fire!, which I absolutely love. And Dennis Quaid's performance.
(I'm sure he even mined Disney's 'Goofy', at some points!)
But apart from everything else I seem to recall its wonderful colour scheme - which you wouldn't have tended to associate so much with vintage rock'n'roll; more 'Miami Vice', I would have thought.
But it's an essential part of the overall package.

I hope to find a spot for it in my 50

[Yojimbo]

And I wonder if the sniper sequence from Bunuel's The Phantom of Liberty was any influence on all the people suddenly dropping to the ground in front of surprised onlookers in the Cohen film!

It wouldn't surprise me, Col. I've long stopped being surprised at the unexpected steals film-makers make from the least-expected sources
(although the Tony Scott one still has me stumped!) :-s

[knives]

I hope you find time for Breathless also which is probably going to make my list and which I consider to be significantly better than Godard's original (though I will freely admit that more has to do with my preoccupations than the relative merit of each film).

[Yojimbo]

I hope you find time for Breathless also which is probably going to make my list and which I consider to be significantly better than Godard's original (though I will freely admit that more has to do with my preoccupations than the relative merit of each film).

I remember liking the fact that Gere's character was a big 'Silver Surfer' fan, which is to his - and the film's - credit.
Haven't seen it in yonks, though