Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Other Boutique Labels

[swo17]

The Devils and Marketa Lazarova

Anything that could have been improved about those releases was out of their hands though. Surely something like the Madame de Blu "upgrade" is much more egregious.

[Perkins Cobb]

The Devils and Marketa Lazarova

Anything that could have been improved about those releases was out of their hands though. Surely something like the Madame de Blu "upgrade" is much more egregious.

The Devils is debatable (if it had been my call, I would've declined to release that cut by itself; I realize that's a minority view). But with Marketa Lazarova, Second Run re-edited the film rather than simply cutting it, and they failed to disclose that (or admit it when called out on it), and both of those struck me as bad calls.

Edit: And, really, not eager on my end to dig up these old arguments in the wrong thread. My point was just that it's a bit unfair for MichaelB to characterize me as some kind of hothead based on a total of two opinions expressed over, what, seven or eight years posting here.

[knives]

I can't imagine even for this film why anyone would pay $40 for an hour of movie. Even Crit reduced price when releasing Night and Fog.

[EddieLarkin]

Night and Fog is a documentary short. Man in the Dark is a feature length film. I fail to see your point.

[Gregory]

I can't imagine even for this film why anyone would pay $40 for an hour of movie. Even Crit reduced price when releasing Night and Fog.

Would it help if instead it was $35 (?) for a 70-minute film that has never really gotten released until now?

[knives]

I can't imagine even for this film why anyone would pay $40 for an hour of movie. Even Crit reduced price when releasing Night and Fog.

Would it help if instead it was $35 (?) for a 70-minute film that has never really gotten released until now?

In this case I'd hope for extras, but that isn't happening.

[EddieLarkin]

Would it help if instead it was $35 (?) for a 70-minute film that has never really gotten released until now?

Yes, that's a rather good point; I can't find anything to suggest this has ever seen a home video release until now. Whilst the film is probably nothing more than a curio, its previous lack of availability makes this an important release. They'll probably struggle to sell more than 1,000 copies, so I'm happy to pay the $35.

In this case I'd hope for extras, but that isn't happening.

Don't be so sure. Okay, for a film like this the odds are probably against it, but TT are doing pretty well in the extras department these days. They produced two featurettes for their release of The Disappearance, and Jane Eyre's supplements basically read like a Criterion disc: 2 commentaries, a featurette and an earlier film from the director of the main feature.

[Ashirg]

To be fair, Jane Eyre's supplements were ported over from Fox's Cinema Classics Collection DVD release.

[EddieLarkin]

Everything except the additional feature film.

[Moe Dickstein]

short movie is a -, and 3D is a +, so they cancel each other out

[Gregory]

For me, a short feature can be a plus, 3D is a neutral, and an expensive blind-buy is a big negative.

[swo17]

How could a bonus short film ever be a minus? Even if it's terrible, it's, well, short. And you don't have to watch it. Making it at worst a neutral.

[Gregory]

I thought we were talking about the main feature being relatively short (~70 minutes) which in my house often means it gets viewed sooner and more often than something 2-3 times that length.

[EddieLarkin]

I believe Moe and Greg are referring to the runtime of Man in the Dark, rather than the bonus film available on Jane Eyre (which is feature length, technically).

The whole film is available on youtube, and after watching part of it I'm happy TT have included it as it looks to be good fun, especially from a British perspective!

[knives]

I thought we were talking about the main feature being relatively short (~70 minutes) which in my house often means it gets viewed sooner and more often than something 2-3 times that length.

I agree with that but, especially since I presume TT didn't have any additional costs like restoration, selling a short movie minus extras for the same as a regular length feature plus extras seems weird to me.

[EddieLarkin]

But it is a regular length feature film. It's only 8 minutes shorter than Hitchcock's Rope! If it was sub 1 hour then I'd be on board with what you're saying, and would expect them to at least make it a double feature with something else. But there's nothing unusual about a 70 minute film, especially from that period of film making.

[Gregory]

I thought we were talking about the main feature being relatively short (~70 minutes) which in my house often means it gets viewed sooner and more often than something 2-3 times that length.

I agree with that but, especially since I presume TT didn't have any additional costs like restoration, selling a short movie minus extras for the same as a regular length feature plus extras seems weird to me.

Does a licensor get any discount if the feature is shorter than average length? As for the extras, we'll just have to wait and see, but TT charging special-edition prices for a (near-)bare-bones release would hardly be anything out of the ordinary.

[knives]

But it is a regular length feature film. It's only 8 minutes shorter than Hitchcock's Rope! If it was sub 1 hour then I'd be on board with what you're saying, and would expect them to at least make it a double feature with something else. But there's nothing unusual about a 70 minute film, especially from that period of film making.

The Rope BD is MSRP $30 and can be found much cheaper than that. I'd say that would be a reasonable price for a new release.

[Gregory]

Complaints about pricing structure, however valid, should probably go in the "Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Olive Films" thread, to which many pages of this thread were already moved.

[EddieLarkin]

Sure, but Rope is not specially discounted because it has a short runtime. You can pick Gone with the Wind up for a similar bargain price.

As for Man in the Dark, it too will probably have a $30 MSRP like all other TT discs these days. They went for $35 with Major Dundee because it required two discs, but I don't think that will be necessary for Man in the Dark even allowing for the additional 3D version, precisely because of the short runtime.

[jindianajonz]

Whoever compared it to Night and Fog, this film is over twice the length of that one. A better comparison would be the 63 minute Most Dangerous Game, which had no special features and was priced at $25, though considering this is Blu-Ray, I think a slightly higher price would be excusable.

And who knows, maybe it'll be relatively loaded, in which case a $35 price would make it a better deal than Criterion's 70 minute Island of Lost Souls (you know, if you base your movie purchases only on run time, special features and price, and don't factor in trivial things like the quality of the movie itself)

[matrixschmatrix]

I'm sure Twilight Time is tired of being compared to Olive, but but Olive dropped the MSRP on their blu release of Anthony Mann's 56 minute Strangers in the Night to $25, $5 cheaper than their longer releases. Though honestly at 70 minutes, that's feature length- I don't know that one is owed anything for brevity there.

[Roger Ryan]

Using Chico Marx economics, for some films you should pay more for being able to sit through a shorter running time: $35 for 70 minutes, $70 for 35 minutes, $100 for 15 minutes, etc.

Theoretical straight man: "What if I don't watch the film at all?"
Chico Marx: "You couldn't afford it."

[Moe Dickstein]

Personally I think this demonstrates TT's commitment to bringing out a quality product for their price point. Time and again, they've shown a willingness to do things like this and adjust course to make a better product. Notice how many commentaries we're getting these days?

[TMDaines]

Twilight Time / SAE is a company that will sell their product at a greatly inflated price, but then offer to doctor their shipping labels so you don't have pay taxes on importing their product, (thus insuring the only money you spend ends up in their pocket) so they've got previous with their peculiar ethics in the hunt for your order.