Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Other Boutique Labels

[CSM126]

We don't have a vomit emoticon, so I'll just use this instead:



Why would anyone pay inflated prices to get those Allen films from Twilight when you can import them for less? Unless Twilight Time has convinced Woody Allen to change his mind and start recording commentary tracks, which will never happen, I fail to see the point. But I'm sure the blu-ray.com or HTF crowd can tell me about how "It's limited edition, that makes it better!". Yeah, you're paying for something that I'm fairly sure isn't even mentioned anywhere on the package. Woo hoo. Fuck it.

[matrixschmatrix]

Uh, are they actually available for import at the moment? I think it makes perfect sense to buy a blu-ray of an incredible movie that doesn't exist elsewhere, even at exorbitant prices- though I certainly hope there's a Region B release of the Allens.

[EddieLarkin]

Blu-ray.com lists practically every single Blu-ray there is, in all territories. Neither Crimes and Misdemeanors nor The Front (should this one be considered an Allen film? He starred only)are listed. Where is this idea they are available elsewhere coming from?!

Doesn't their excuse about not creating features (Sony gets to keep them) not pertain to MGM? Could they theoretically make some for Thunderbolt and Lightfoot?

They created some for The Disappearance. In that radio interview from a couple of months back Nick Redman implied they hope to do more in the future where possible. So maybe.

It's such a shame that Crimes and Misdemeanors will be limited to a 3000 print run. I can't wait for the cheaper international release that will inevitably come out. I'm glad I already have the amazing UK release of Zulu.

They can take my money and my old Zulu Blu-ray if their version won't have DNR slathered all over it

[swo17]

Yeah, you're paying for something that I'm fairly sure isn't even mentioned anywhere on the package.

I'm pretty sure they all say something like "limited edition of only 3,000 copies" on the back. And even if they didn't, plenty of collector's items don't say "this is a collector's item!" on them.

[EddieLarkin]

Thunderbolt and Lightfoot will be available by the way (albeit probably region locked) in the UK:

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=10754" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Drucker]

They say The Limited Edition Series on the bottom.

[EddieLarkin]

For those who can't get enough of all the TT drama:

From Facebook

Thanks for your post, Remy -- just so you know, our decision to stop sending screeners to the site you mention has absolutely nothing to do with "too many people post negative comments about the label here." If that were true we wouldn't send screeners to anyone! No, the reasons are more complicated than that and must remain confidential. Thanks for your interest.

From Blu-ray.com

Mr. Redman can attempt to spin this any way he likes. I have every email he's ever sent to me, including the last one where he clearly stated he would no longer provide screeners due to the negative posts on the Twilight Time thread (he specifically referred to an "anti-TT agenda" on the part of the site with regard to the posters "officially" part of the site, per my first post this morning). To be fair, he also said that no news coverage had been posted, but that said, he failed to realize he had never sent PR material to our news team. He also mentioned that we have prevented pro-TT people from posting, which is manifestly not the case as even a cursory reading of this thread (including tons of posts today) more than proves. I have Moderator status here and can see every post that has been moderated, which are solely *negative* posts. Mr. Redman may be referring to his former business partner at a record label, who was in fact suspended here, but for reasons that had nothing to do with TT. According to the last email I received from Mr. Redman, he is under the impression that he and TT are treated "drastically different" here than other boutique labels. I'd refer him to any given Shout! thread if he thinks TT is the only label feeling the wrath of various fans.

As hopefully is shown by my review of The Other today, Mr. Redman's decision has absolutely no bearing on how I will continue to cover TT releases as I am able. Unfortunately, the days of every TT release being covered here are probably at an end.

Also, Bruce Kimmel weighs in here

Kaufman also posts in that thread and mentions receiving "frequently obscenity laced rants" from Redman via email, which other TT founders Brian Jamieson and Julie Kirgo have felt the need to apologise for

[kingofthejungle]

Twilight Time is becoming less a release label than an ongoing industry soap opera, isn't it?

I think it's past time that they settle on a single personality, though. If they want to be the nice-guy hobbyist label who smartly negotiates with disinterested corporate titans to make movies available to people who are interested, then dispense with the thin-skinned hostility that sometimes bubbles to the surface. If they want to be the fiesty upstart that rescues classic films while upending the traditional catalog Blu-Ray market, then cut the pretense and own up to the 'battle lines' being drawn. This middle ground they're trying to stake out is just disingenuous.

That said, I think the label deserves praise for what seems to be an improving taste in their selection of films. There are several titles in the January/February selection that look interesting. Hopefully they'll stick around long enough that I can grab a couple in due time.

[cdnchris]

Also, Bruce Kimmel weighs in here

I take it all with a grain of salt since I (and I'm sure other mods here) have been accused for doing things for incorrect reasons but unless they thought he was a shill it is odd that they banned that roclock user for the reason they state, who I recall being one of the only people who defended Twilight Time on a regular basis.

[FrauBlucher]

Holy smokes, are we talking Blu Rays or are we talking gold in them there hills. Nick Redman has turned into Fred C Dobbs. BTW... Olive gets criticism in their direction but they refrain from beating the war drums.

[domino harvey]

BTW... Olive gets criticism in their direction but they refrain from beating the war drums.

(cough) Harry Lime (cough)

[knives]

At least they, appropriate for this latest bit of announcements, use a front.

[ShellOilJunior]

HTF has some friendly and knowledgeable members but the post linked several above often gives them a bad name.

[Moe Dickstein]

Olive doesn't really talk to anyone about anything.

[Moe Dickstein]

Shell - On the whole I think HTF is one of the more courteous and friendly places for discussion I've found. There doesn't seem to be a sport of cutting things down there.

[ShellOilJunior]

Shell - On the whole I think HTF is one of the more courteous and friendly places for discussion I've found. There doesn't seem to be a sport of cutting things down there.

Yeah, I agree for the most part.

Just saying the site has a few folks that are a drain on the community. There are experts/insiders then there are people who like to remind others they are experts. I'm usually suspicious of those that like to remind people of how much of an "expert" they are on a topic. I've never people like RAH or Nick Wrigley blatantly tell others how much of an expert they are - it's no coincidence they're two of the most respected people in the industry.

[kingofthejungle]

There doesn't seem to be a sport of cutting things down there.

Unless those things are released by Olive Films.

[EddieLarkin]

Also, Bruce Kimmel weighs in here

I take it all with a grain of salt since I (and I'm sure other mods here) have been accused for doing things for incorrect reasons but unless they thought he was a shill it is odd that they banned that roclock user for the reason they state, who I recall being one of the only people who defended Twilight Time on a regular basis.

I was shocked to hear about his banning, because despite his No.1 fan status, I've only ever known his posts to be very polite and reasoned. So it's not a stretch for me to believe he was kicked out for "promoting TT too much", simply by virtue of the fact he was banned at all.

As for the mods stoking the flames, I can't think who they might be. I know Svet really doesn't like their model, but I don't recall him posting much about them one way or the other. "Blu Titan" is a mod there who posts all the time about TT, and I imagine is the one who moderates the thread, but his posts aren't overly negative.

[dwk]

Kaufman also posts in that thread and mentions receiving "frequently obscenity laced rants" from Redman via email, which other TT founders Brian Jamieson and Julie Kirgo have felt the need to apologise for

Oh man, I wish Kaufman would publish those emails.

[peerpee]

Redman's losing it over all this shows enormous frustration and stubbornness on his part – and almost begs further needling.

This would have all probably gone away if he hadn't responded whatsoever. Now there's only bitterness.

[NABOB OF NOWHERE]

Dupe post.

Who gives two fucks?

[tenia]

Also, Bruce Kimmel weighs in here

I take it all with a grain of salt since I (and I'm sure other mods here) have been accused for doing things for incorrect reasons but unless they thought he was a shill it is odd that they banned that roclock user for the reason they state, who I recall being one of the only people who defended Twilight Time on a regular basis.

I read the article, and it seems to me that Kimmel is mixing a lot of stuff that have nothing to do together.
He's talking about boycott thread, banning roclockok (and I certainly would be surprised that supporting TT was the reason for it) and stuff like this, being supported by moderators, conspiring that "they have been suspiciously absent since the first strating post".

I'm very often reading and writing on blu-ray.com, and will certainly challenge all this claims. Because I've been ranting a lot, even directly to one of their reviewers (Svet, to be exact), and have never been banned for this. Not even remotely. I mean, I didn't even get a PM saying "now, you should stop, you don't know what you're doing". The closest I had was a PM from Svet explaining what he balanced to write his review.

I'm also quite certain the mods/reviewers there don't support anything. Hence their absence, by the way.

And also, it's very funny to bring out comparisons with other reviewers, like saying they trumpeted their own reviews while putting down others like some from Robert Harris. Isn't that what we did for Madame de ?

On blu-ray.com, Torrente asked to imagine if this would have happened in France with Gaumont, about their releases which was too denoised, leading up to Madame de.
We've been far more agressive than this, and they have responded constructively.
I'm also thinking about MoC response for the last Mizoguchi upgrades being only planned within a boxset. They too have responded in a constructive manner.

What peerpee is saying is 100% my feeling : since they wanted to keep the reasons confidential, now, people including loyal customers are only becoming suspicious.
Nothing would have happened if they would have been overt about why they are doing this, but instead, they chose a totally non-constructive response.

[Moe Dickstein]

There doesn't seem to be a sport of cutting things down there.

Unless those things are released by Olive Films.

Plenty of Olive fans over there, as well as those who dislike what they do.

[Perkins Cobb]

Bruce Kimmel is a tiresome (and tireless) troll and the HTF is a cesspit that uses "civility" as a smokescreen for groupthink, censorship, and bullying. Jeffrey Kauffman (let's get his name right, at least) sounds like the only rational person in this particular back-and-forth, but let's not forget that he's also the guy we regularly mock for writing reviews that seem to lack the most basic comprehension of cinematic language and technical language and, well, language.

As david hare says, who gives a fuck about any of these people? Or, more to the point, how can I find out the little bit I need to know about their friggin' disk releases without having to wade through all their crap.

[Moe Dickstein]

Bullying? Hmm pot... kettle...