Criterion Blu-ray

[Tribe]

There is a difference between 35mm (and definitely 70mm) and HD. But sadly, the vast majority of people won't be able to tell the difference nor care.

Why sadly? Why should the vast majority be able to tell the difference?

Tribe

[Cinesimilitude]

on one of the noshame dvd's, Story of a Love Affair, I think, there is a featurette on digital restoration, and they talk about a machine that has the ability to match 35MM output when comparing side by side on a standard theatrical screen.

tv is 480 lines of resolution, HDTV is 720, sometimes 1080, and these machines scan at over 4000 lines of resolution. sure would be neat to see what that looks like.

[exte]

Isn't there a tv prototype in Japan that can do just that? That's what I've heard, anyway...

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

That'd be UHDV.

[Gordon]

What worries me the most is how Facets and New Yorker are going to cope with Blu-Ray. They are already in the habit of using unconverted PAL masters, using poor elements and not transfering progressively and not using digital restoration software tools. As Criterion and Warner raise the bar to unimagined heights once Blu-Ray gets going, Facets and New Yorker titles are going to look even worse. They needed to shape up three years ago and get with the programme (their titles cost just as much as slow-tier single disc Criterions) but if they are not ready for Blu-Ray and the standards that the cinephile/HT-buff will expect, then no one is going to pay $20 for their bungled Blu-Ray 'remasters', let alone their worst standard def discs.

The future criteria for an adequate Blu-Ray transfer will all hinge on how good it looks on a BIG screen, ie 50" or more. Is it truly a hi-def, progressive, OAR transfer? Is it razor sharp? Is it super-clean with no major scratches/blemishes? Are the colours accurate? Is their bleeding or mis-registered colour, ie. a Technicolor film?
This is basically the criteria now, but the consumer will get even more demanding once the Blu-Ray volcanoe starts to erupt. Transfers will be scrutinized even more stringently by the eagle-eyed experts!

A lot of folks will be investing a lot of money in players, big monitors/projectors/screens and cables and they will be mightily pissed if they don't get blown away by the quality and don't get their money's worth with every title they buy. A lot of people are like that already. A lot of short cuts can be taken with DVD, but not with Blu-Ray on BIG screens and I hope that those in control are fully aware of that.

[oldsheperd]

Hey, Man I just don't want to buy new equipment.

[Gigi M.]

My question is: How much difference's going to be from Progressive to HD? You think will be worth it, investing in new equipment and movies again? I'm not planning buying the same movies again just for better picture quality. I mean, in the case of Seven Samurai and others Criterions it is, but let say a new HD of Gone With The Wind for example. The four disc Collector's edition looks beautiful for Christ sake.

[Tribe]

Blu-Ray....what a racket.

Tribe

[hearthesilence]

I'm a little new to this, but from what I've read, it seems Blu Ray will at least survive when it comes to computer data storage and I guess recording HDTV broadcasts will come into play too, especially with the push to switch broadcasting in general to HD. I'm probably missing some details and generalizing too much, but right now I'm more concerned with home video.

IF Blu Ray and/or HD DVD movie titles do NOT catch on the way standard DVD has, will the movie studios continue to support it? Does it mean Blu Ray and/or HD DVD could become a niche format like, say, LaserDisc was? Seriously, would that be a plausible business model where the only people buying HD DVD or Blu Ray titles ten years from now will be the same kind of people who bought LaserDiscs in the early 90's? (In that case, I guess only a label like Criterion will have to support it, but would that be a viable business format for Criterion? To be the big gorilla of a tiny, niche format?)

I gotta say, it's driving me crazy, because regardless of the outcome, I LOVE the idea of having an HD format, and I'm pretty sure I can budget myself to buy the new stuff necessary to use it, but I feel kind of foolish buying DVD's right now. They may not be 'obsolete' ten years from now, but if a Blu Ray or HD DVD version of the same title comes out, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get it.

[Anthony]

The current DVD format is standard definition. The next generation DVDs will be in High Definition. The next generation DVD players will be HD, but will be backwards compatible (meaning they will be able to play the standard definition dics that are on the market today). There won't be any SD DVD players for sale after HD takes over. So the studios are only going to sell DVDs in the HD format. And I predict that the HD DVDs will be about the same price as todays DVDs, and the HD players will be just as cheap as todays SD players a few years after their initial introduction. Have no fret... don't worry about the future.

[ben d banana]

I gotta say, it's driving me crazy, because regardless of the outcome, I LOVE the idea of having an HD format, and I'm pretty sure I can budget myself to buy the new stuff necessary to use it, but I feel kind of foolish buying DVD's right now. They may not be 'obsolete' ten years from now, but if a Blu Ray or HD DVD version of the same title comes out, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get it.

I'm nuts too, but it's pretty safe to say HD and Blu-ray will be obsolete, or well on their way, in 10 years as well.

[kschell]

I think another factor in the Hi Def war no one talks about is the films themselves. While I would love to see "Lawrence of Arabia" and "The Matrix" in Hi Def, most films don't need such high quality. I mean, if you've seen "Kangaroo Jack" on VHS, your opinion will probably not change even if you see it in IMAX.

Classic films are good examples. While "The Seventh Seal" and "Citizen Kane" looked better on DVD than they ever did on VHS, I doubt Hi Def DVDs will make much of a difference. Also, the DVDs of the above-mentioned titles are already very good. I like the DVD format and, with a few notable exceptions, most of my favorite films on DVD are already great.

You make an excellent point. I'm happy with the look on most of the DVDs... Will a High Def DVD really improve "The Bank Dick" or "Grand Illusions" or even "The River"?

[Jun-Dai]

You make an excellent point. I'm happy with the look on most of the DVDs... Will a High Def DVD really improve "The Bank Dick" or "Grand Illusions" or even "The River"?

Yes.

I'm actually quite disappointed with the transfer of Seventh Seal, and Seven Samurai is one of the worst transfers I've seen of a black and white film.

Generally speaking, I prefer a top-notch transfer over a plethora of features (I don't generally re-watch features), though to me "top-notch transfer" would really mean one that the cinematographer or director has worked over or has been done by the most concientious of technical folk. But it also means very little digital artifacting, a clean but not grain-wiped print, decent but not heightened contrast, etc. It also means as high a resolution as possible, and DVD really doesn't have that high a resolution (it's not even SVGA).

Watching Grand Illusion in the theater is much nicer than watching it on DVD. Part of that is the social aspect, as well as the fact that you're making an evening of it, but part of it is the size and quality. Size and quality really go hand in hand--as the image becomes bigger, the need for quality becomes more important. We don't need HD-DVD for 5" portable screens, but even on a 17" monitor the difference would be significant, and on a 30" 1080p TV it would be very significant, and on a 200" 1080p+ digital projector, it would be huge. Only in the last year has 1080p started to become affordable for most middle-class cine-/tv-philes. Soon it will be affordable for all middle-class folk, and most lower-middle class cine-/tv-philes. Already there is a significant niche market for a HD format, and pretty soon people are going to be wondering why their TV reception looks better than their DVDs (I understand they already do to a limited extent in Europe). At this point, a single format of HD DVD would be more successful than laserdisc ever was (though it will always pale in comparison to the rapid success of DVD). This format war, however, I won't be touching with a 10' pole. (though if they release Grand Illusion. . .)

[porquenegar]

Besides the obvious improvement in picture quality, I'm most excited about having uncompressed audio with the new format. One of the main reasons, I'm still hanging on to LD's is because the uncompressed audio sounds so much richer and fuller than the compressed audio on dvds.

[The Invunche]

I wish I could hear grass grow.

[Geoff]

some of you guys might be interested in this link

They comment that, "both next-gen formats has been modified to require picture degredation over analog connections. As a result, the signal sent through analog connections will be constrained to 960x540, rather than the 1920x1080 that both Blu-ray and HD DVD are capable of."

The reasoning being that sneaky pirates, would use the analog connection to record high resolution copies and spread them via various means.

[porquenegar]

I wish I could hear grass grow.

There is a noticeable difference in audio quality. Whether you choose to care about it is your choice.

[Geoff]

don't worry, that comment comes from a guy that doesn't even like Jazz.

[Cinesimilitude]

Here's the first HD Criterion news:

from Video Business:

Image Entertainment, which distributes film buff line The Criterion Collection, will stay out of high-definition DVD altogether until manufacturing prices drop, CEO Martin Greenwald said at the B Riley Investor Conference Wednesday.

but that says Image is holding off, not really definitive on whether or not Criterion will pick a camp before the war is over. or maybe it is... I don't know.

[Tribe]

Criterion is staying out of the format wars... see this.

Tribe

[Darth Lavender]

I've discussed this elsewere (and my view, essentially, is that being "the best" is particularly central to Criterion's reputation and they simply cannot continue to be "the best" when other companies are, more and more, releasing HD movies. You put in a Criterion disk and expect to be amazed by the clarity of the image, and it's increasingly difficult to be amazed by the clarity of a new Criterion DVD when I have a shelf full of HD-DVD.

Having said that, though, the pathetic attempts to bring anime onto HD have me increasingly concerned that when Criterion makes the transition, they'll be offering HD at prices well into the 'ridiculous' range (going to the anime example, I think Wings of Honneamise was released at something like $80. Which seems fine at first glance (I just assumed it was a series) but after reading a few reviews it seems that $80 is for one 120 minute movie, with no extras. The other major anime release on HD-DVD, is the Freedom Project, at something like $40 or $50 per 24 minute episode (and those episodes are, by design, filled with product-placement) With numbers like that, I begin to suspect that Criterion's transition to HD still won't do me any good, because my self-respect just won't allow me to pay prices like that.

On the anime issue, though, there is *some* good news. Apparently Bluray has gotten one or two reasonably priced anime (as well as the ridiculously priced Wings of Honneamise) and Warner will be released the new Appleseed on both formats (and *finally* at the same price. HD is still a combo, but it won't be any more expensive for it.)

[Antoine Doinel]

1) Criterion, if they're smart, will not enter the HD market until a clear winner has been decided. As has been discussed elsewhere, as an already niche player, it would financial suicide to start with HD releases now.

2) There is no point discussing price this early in the HD dvd game when as the history of VHS and DVD has shown, retail prices drop dramatically as the format gains popularity. There is no reason why once HD becomes the norm, that the prices will match current pricing of DVDs.

[fdm]

This may be in some other thread... The latest Sound & Vision magazine is covering their helping Criterion redo their new screening room, tied with their move to new facilities. The first article discussed the preliminaries, with article(s) due later to provide details about what is/will-be put in place. Interesting article, recommend checking it out.

Relevant snippet from it: "We've mastered in high-definition for years now. We just have to take the tapes and compress them in an HD codec. We did a Blu-Ray test of one of our titles, and we're really happy with the results."

[GringoTex]

You put in a Criterion disk and expect to be amazed by the clarity of the image, and it's increasingly difficult to be amazed by the clarity of a new Criterion DVD when I have a shelf full of HD-DVD.

Which Criterion films do you have on HD-DVD?

[Luke M]

Relevant snippet from it: "We've mastered in high-definition for years now. We just have to take the tapes and compress them in an HD codec. We did a Blu-Ray test of one of our titles, and we're really happy with the results."

A beacon of hope! As for Criterion movies available on HD-DVD, there's Dazed & Confused, Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas, La Haine (which looks amazing!) and Jimi Plays Monterey.

Laserdiscs were a niche market and I imagine there's more blu-ray machines in homes than laserdisc players when Criterion started.