Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Other Boutique Labels

[Lowry_Sam]

Seems fair enough to me. If it sold out before you paid, it's just bad luck.

It's not just "bad luck", this is the second time I've tried to purchase it & wasted time doing so. It leaves a foul taste, to have your hopes sparked after missing it the first time. You would have thought w/ 90 copies, they would have posted a "1 per customer" policy like with Body double. Anyway, time & effort wasted trying to buy something that wasn't available is not an enjoyable experience, but to have it happen to you twice while attempting to buy one title is a bit much, particularly when there could be a "wait list" or something, like with Amazon's daily specials, not to mention a better cart system that registers an item as "allocated", so that when you see it in your cart, you know it's actually there & how much time you have left in order to complete your order (I also had to have my password emailed to me, since I haven't used the site since the last time The Big Heat sold out & I had forgotten in the interim).

[tojoed]

Well, now I think it's not bad luck, but carelessness on your part. if you don't have a simple way of
remembering passwords for internet retailers you are going to be disadvantaged when trying to order something that's in short supply.

[Lowry_Sam]

Well, now I think it's not bad luck, but carelessness on your part. if you don't have a simple way of
remembering passwords for internet retailers you are going to be disadvantaged when trying to order something that's in short supply.

I do....for all the retailers where I normally shop, but as this was going to be my first TT/SAE purchase, I'm left with a deepdiscount taste in my mouth & not inclined to return.

[Gregory]

The Big Heat was available for 16 months.
If it were DeepDiscount (or ImportCDs) the problem would likely have been far worse: the product page saying "In Stock," followed by a long backorder and eventual cancelation (or leaving the order in limbo for a year or more, in DD's case, unless the customer initiates cancelation). I've never seen anything like the kind of shopping cart "that registers an item as allocated." Doesn't seem like it would help anyone except those who waited until the last possible moment.

[Lowry_Sam]

The Big Heat was available for 16 months.
If it were DeepDiscount (or ImportCDs) the problem would likely have been far worse: the product page saying "In Stock," followed by interminable backorder and eventual cancelation (or leaving the order in limbo for a year or more, in DD's case, unless the customer initiates cancelation). I've never seen anything like the kind of shopping cart "that registers an item as allocated." Doesn't seem like it would help anyone except those who waited until the last possible moment.

Well if it had actually been available for that long, I didn't know about it until more recently (more like 4 -6 months ago). I saw TT's releases, but they didn't interest me, so I stopped paying attention, then I found out they have something I'd like on blu-ray & read up on the quality of their discs & business model and became wary, but was compelled to grab a copy upon seeing an announcement that only x # of copies are left & decide to bite the bullet.......long story short, the business model, which I see as akin to concert ticket sellers (and I have stopped going to rock concerts because of this), is certainly good for ebay resellers/scalpers, but not for people who actually want a copy of the best available version of a film.

[Gregory]

Here's my two cents. People protest too much about the limited-edition part of the business model. Most TT discs are not getting scooped up by scalpers. They're bought gradually by people who want to own the titles on Blu-ray. Those who wait too long do so at their peril. Some releases will probably never even sell out their run of 3,000 because demand is too low, and so TT will have to either slash prices before the license expires or lose money on unsold stock because demand for some of what they release is so low. Those that do sell out in a flash are pretty predictable and are an exception: the horror/thriller titles from cult directors. For those, it's a good idea to order as soon as possible. For the others, it's not a bad idea to order within the two or three months. Beyond that, you're taking your chances.

Not that anyone necessarily cares about parallel examples, but my inauguration into the sometimes frustrating world of limited pressings was in buying music, and I've gotten used to some scenarios that make TT seem easy and wonderful by comparison. Numbered vinyl runs of 300 or fewer copies, sometimes about $30-50 for one album, sometimes without an obvious place to order or reliable sources of info about what's forthcoming, and sometimes sold out as soon as or before it hits the stores. Will it be repressed in another run a year or three later? Who knows—wait and see. I've come to accept that I'll inevitably miss out on quite a bit.

[Moe Dickstein]

Just as an addition to that with Sony, TT is REQUIRED to destroy all unsold product at the end of the three year term, no remainders allowed.

[dwk]

So will TT slash prices, say, a week before their three year license is up, give away copies to people that order $100 worth of other releases, or not worry about recouping what they can before having to destroy unsold stock?

[Lowry_Sam]

So will TT slash prices, say, a week before their three year license is up, give away copies to people that order $100 worth of other releases, or not worry about recouping what they can before having to destroy unsold stock?

..or will they do what Apple did when the G4 Cubes didn't sell as well as they hoped, buy a remote plot in the desert somewhere & under the cover of night, dig a hole & bury them so that no one can find them.

[Moe Dickstein]

I don't think a decision has been made since the first license doesn't expire for around a year.

[captveg]

Just as an addition to that with Sony, TT is REQUIRED to destroy all unsold product at the end of the three year term, no remainders allowed.

I wonder if the current avenue of selling large chunks of the releases to TCM might be a way to hedge their bets with this situation. If on the last day before they would have to destroy a Sony release they sell all their remaining stock to TCM then they keep their agreement and people can still purchase them online via a retailer.

[Moe Dickstein]

Could be, but I do know TCM isn't taking a whole lot of copies in general, very low hundreds for their biggest buy.

[EddieLarkin]

Don't see it happening with any of their Sony titles. If they can shift 3000 copies of The Left Hand of God in under 2 years, I'm sure there's nothing to worry about with stuff like Picnic and Bonjour Tristesse. Some of their Fox titles on the otherhand...

[perkizitore]

From TT's Facebook page:

For those of you on a Brian De Palma kick...in the wake of Body Double only 600 copies of The Fury remain, and dwindling fast...

I am sure this announcement has nothing to do with Arrow's massively improved and much more affordable upcoming release :-"

[Moe Dickstein]

Sure if you're in the UK

[knives]

Actually to import it is cheaper than domestically buying the TT version.

[swo17]

I am sure this announcement has nothing to do with Arrow's massively improved and much more affordable upcoming release :-"

Obviously Arrow improving on the TT would be expected to have the opposite effect, i.e. it not being on the brink of selling out. Unless you're suggesting that TT are manufacturing this news because it's the only way they can get people to buy it?

[Matt]

Actually to import it is cheaper than domestically buying the TT version.

$31 shipped on Amazon.co.uk right now vs. $34.30 shipped for the TT.

[domino harvey]

I am sure this announcement has nothing to do with Arrow's massively improved and much more affordable upcoming release :-"

Obviously Arrow improving on the TT would be expected to have the opposite effect, i.e. it not being on the brink of selling out. Unless you're suggesting that TT are manufacturing this news because it's the only way they can get people to buy it?

Surely the latter, no? And I agree, seems a bit suspect

[swo17]

Except that I have no problem believing that they would have sold 2500 copies by now. In fact, given De Palma's bankability, I'm surprised it's taken this long.

[EddieLarkin]

They make an announcement like this for every title that drops to around 500 remaining. And though sales of the title have slowed down considerably since it was first released, at the time the SAE cart showed that over half the run was gone within the first few weeks. So another 1000 sold over a 4 month period is hardly a stretch.

And I think Moe's point was that the Arrow release, regardless of price, is unavailable to the vast majority of American fans due to its region coding.

[Matt]

perkizitore's statement that the Arrow release is "improved" and "much more affordable" than the TT release is objectively true whether you're in the US or the UK. Not being region-free or not being willing to import are individual decisions that have no impact on the truth of that statement.

[perkizitore]

Actually to import it is cheaper than domestically buying the TT version.

$31 shipped on Amazon.co.uk right now vs. $34.30 shipped for the TT.

This is the RRP, I am sure that when other retailers start listing it nearer the release date, Amazon will drop the price accordingly (Van Gogh from MoC was originally priced at £19.99)

[EddieLarkin]

"Free", signed copies of The Disappearance are up now, for anyone interested.

perkizitore's statement that the Arrow release is "improved" and "much more affordable" than the TT release is objectively true whether you're in the US or the UK. Not being region-free or not being willing to import are individual decisions that have no impact on the truth of that statement.

Yes, no one is denying that the Arrow release has superior supplements and will likely have an improved transfer, and is of course cheaper. These are facts.

But perkizitore's implication that the warning announcement has been made due to the impending Arrow release, is thrown into doubt when one acknowledges the fact that the majority of TT's customer base do not have the ability to play the Region-B disc anyway.

That's all anyone's saying.

[Matt]

OK, I gotcha. I'm all caught up now.