Avatar and the Avatar Cadence (James Cameron, 2009-2031)

[Zot!]

What was the rip-off from Terminator? Ray Harryhausen? I've actually always enjoyed Cameron's eye for cool looking technology, but there is no doubt certain things were borrowed from here and there.

[knives]

Harlan Ellison.

[matrixschmatrix]

That case always seemed pretty unfounded- I've read both of the Ellison stories he claimed were ripped off (I know Demon with a Glass Hand was one, don't recall the other offhand) and neither seemed any closer to the conception of Terminator than, say, Philip K. Dick's Second Variety. And God knows that Ellison is a man more than happy to file a groundless lawsuit (it's part of what makes him him!)

[warren oates]

I agree with matrix. And I'd go further and say that people who are jumping on the Avatar IP-theft bandwagon lack an understanding of copyright law (both as it was originally intended and as it operates now) and the nature of creativity. Artists are always "stealing" from each other. That's fundamental to the way innovation in the arts works. This weird corporatized notion that every last musical note or image anyone farts out (while under contract) is immaculately "original" and can be monetized and legally protected is a very recent fabrication of the twitchy and rapacious legal departments of huge conglomerates.

The Terminator suit was settled out of an abundance of caution by rights holders who didn't want to jeopardize their mega franchise. I could see something similar happening here, but I hope they fight it. Floating islands seem like a staple of fantasy imagery. It's not at all as if, say, the Alien films had used those much more distinctive Giger creature designs with no compensation or acknowledgement.

[Reverend Drewcifer]

Coming soon: Ellison sues matrixschmatrix for defamation of character, and me for using his name in vain.

[flyonthewall2983]

With regards to Roger Dean, I can imagine someone who's looking at his art (he still does exhibits) who's never heard a note of Yes' music and isn't familiar with his artwork saying that he ripped off Cameron. I think it's why the movie Roger was making wound up in development Hell.

[solaris72]

That case always seemed pretty unfounded- I've read both of the Ellison stories he claimed were ripped off (I know Demon with a Glass Hand was one, don't recall the other offhand) and neither seemed any closer to the conception of Terminator than, say, Philip K. Dick's Second Variety. And God knows that Ellison is a man more than happy to file a groundless lawsuit (it's part of what makes him him!)

It was specifically his Outer Limits episodes- Demon with a Glass Hand and also Soldier. And I definitely agree that the resemblance is extremely vague; honestly, a better case could be made for suing Ellison over his TV pilot Phoenix Without Ashes ripping off Heinlein's Orphans of the Sky (and that would still be a pretty poor case in itself). I at first suspected Ellison's win was the result of a judge or a jury that just didn't know much about science fiction, but apparently it never got that far, the production company freaked out and settled (making Cameron go along with it by threatening to deduct losses from his earnings from the film if they lost in court). I'm no huge fan of Cameron, but that's kinda shitty.

[flyonthewall2983]

Hmm, I never knew about that. You read about these things in one-sentence paragraphs and one would automatically see it as black-and-white. And yeah, that does suck for Jim (less so for the people that continue to drag this franchise out, but that's another story).

[domino harvey]

Two sequels? Nah, how bout three sequels to be filmed simultaneously

[EddieLarkin]

Whenever multiple sequels to a new hit franchise are filmed simultaneously, it always ends badly. The Matrix, Pirates of the Caribbean, and... Critters 3 & 4. Back to the Future is the one exception.

[flyonthewall2983]

Back to the Future is the one exception.

Sort of, the two sequels did okay numbers and were critically accepted. But Bob Gale criticized how the studio promoted the 2nd one, not really inferring that it would be part of a trilogy. So that when II came out, the first week was good but had a bit of a fall-out from there on because of word-of-mouth from people who were mislead by the promotion for the film.

[criterion10]

Two sequels? Nah, how bout three sequels to be filmed simultaneously

Great news! .... Not really. Damn it, Cameron. ](*,)

[Mr Sausage]

Well, Cameron has had an excellent track record with sequels.

Then again, he hasn't made a good film in almost 20 years...

[MichaelB]

Well, Cameron has had an excellent track record with sequels.

Piranha 2: The Spawning is one of the towering masterpieces of its era.

[Mr Sausage]

Well, Cameron has had an excellent track record with sequels.

Piranha 2: The Spawning is one of the towering masterpieces of its era.

Had to know that was coming.

[MichaelB]

Well, Cameron has had an excellent track record with sequels.

Piranha 2: The Spawning is one of the towering masterpieces of its era.

Had to know that was coming.

I know - some things are impossible to resist.

[Brian C]

Frankly, I'm surprised no one has chimed in to claim, with absolute sincerity, that Piranha 2 actually is a masterpiece, or at least criminally underrated.

[flyonthewall2983]

I don't think James even would.

[colinr0380]

Whenever multiple sequels to a new hit franchise are filmed simultaneously, it always ends badly. The Matrix, Pirates of the Caribbean, and... Critters 3 & 4. Back to the Future is the one exception.

I don't have an opinion on Piranha 2's flying fish yet but certainly have to take issue with Critters 3 and 4 - they're great (especially the third one confining its action into the drab about to be demolished apartment block) and introduced Leonardo Di Caprio to the movies! The fourth was also one of the first times I noticed Angela Bassett too, though she'd been in Boyz 'N The Hood before that.

Especially comforting is the idea that if Don Opper can rise from a rather minor secondary character in the first Critters to become the de facto hero of a franchise of sci-fi action films by the fourth (equivalent in my mind to the rise of Reggie Bannister's character in the Phantasm sequels), there is hope for us all! Not all of us find it easy to relate to the studly Sam Worthington-types you know!

[RossyG]

What was the rip-off from Terminator?

Doctor Who: Day of the Daleks (1972)

[domino harvey]

James Cameron: All cinema destined/doomed to be 3-D eventually

Chatting recently with the BBC, the director made it clear that 3D is here to stay. "For me it's absolutely inevitable that entertainment will be 3D, it'll all be 3D eventually, because that's how we see the world," he said, adding: "When it's correct and convenient for us, we pre-select for that as the premium experience."

[criterion10]

As much as I am a pessimist, I am also a realist, and so I honestly don't see the day coming about where all cinema, or entertainment, will be in 3-D.

I personally don't care for 3-D at all, and if Cameron likes the medium and wants to further advance its technological capabilities, I have no problem with that, as long as it doesn't affect my viewing habits. I don't know why he's so intent on having 3-D downright replace standard 2-D storytelling. It's quite irritating, and slowly making me value him less and less as a filmmaker.

[Matt]

It's been a while since I read my Bazin, but wasn't he already saying 50 years ago that cinema would eventually be completely immersive?

[flyonthewall2983]

Wow. Looks like it'll be a big payday for this guy

Nope

[domino harvey]

Cameron sez the Avatar sequels will be "bitchin" and "You will shit yourself with your mouth wide open"