Archived Criterion Streaming Discussion

[mfunk9786]

I think the problem is my antivirus software keeps blocking Adobe Flash from functioning properly, but I don't know how to temporarily disable my antivirs software.

There should be way to whitelist the Hulu website in your antivirus' settings. Or you could just switch to Avast, which has been wonderful to me

[rrenault]

So what's the deal? Is Avast free or not really?

[Moe Dickstein]

Hulu has a totally different system for streaming than Netflix. The patents behind this were the reason people wanted to buy the company earlier this year, not the content.

[rrenault]

Okay figured it out. I had to downgrade to Flash 11.7 from Flash 11.8

[rrenault]

What has happened to this company is that for $7.99 a month and a cheapo set top box like a Roku or an Apple TV, you can get far more content than Eclipse sets offer at a far better price - Eclipse sets can't be selling as well with the ability to stream those films out there, they look as good as or better than DVD (the Oshimas, for example, look better streaming to my eye), and since there are no bonus features to begin with...

I think the Eclipse line was more of a stopgap until streaming became more of a reality, and now that it is, why keep cranking those sets out so often?

Because physical media will always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always trump streaming

I wonder though. How many years away are we from Criterion dropping physical media altogether, if they ever do? I often consider the fact that people thought the TV would destroy the movie theater. It didn't. Then people thought VHS would destroy the movie theater. It didn't. So are we to expect a similar resistance on the part of physical media in the face of streaming and digital distribution? And let's not forget that vinyl is slowly making a comeback. I'm convinced streaming and digital distribution will survive for the sake of convenience only as long as people can comfort themselves in knowing a physical copy is easily available to them if they so choose to acquire it. But the stream will satisfy in the interim as long as they know they can have a physical copy if they want to pay for it. I'm not opposed to streaming and digital distribution. I just don't understand why online cloud distribution and physical media can't co-exist.

[vsski]

I wonder though. How many years away are we from Criterion dropping physical media altogether, if they ever do?

Physical media and Criterion will be here to stay for a long time, even if the market will go more and more towards online streaming. First of all people keep forgetting with all the media reports about streaming that there is a vast consumer base in Anytown, USA that hasn't gotten any streaming set-up, just ask the folks at Redbox. And streaming outside the home is still marginal at best. Then of course there is the generational issue and the collector's crowd, and it is especially to the latter that the CC caters to. Will physical media diminish? Yes. Will the big studios more and more focus on the latest blockbuster releases and leave smaller and more specialized titles to niche labels? Yes. But I'm sure that in ten years from now you will still be able to buy discs, although depending on how fast they diminish, they may become more expensive than today, if less and less people are buying, but they will be around.

[rrenault]

Well even if Criterion discs are bit more expensive ten years from now there'll still be 50% off sales to take advantage of

[matrixschmatrix]

Criterion's people, in that talk just posted, discussed a.) how to better represent their product when it's being streamed, and b.) how their business has actually increased over the last few years, even as the DVD boom has fallen apart for the bigger companies. So unless that second thing changes, I don't see them getting out of physical media any time soon, but they unambiguously said that they think streaming is the future, and that one of their big projects is to figure out a good way to integrate special features with it.

[rrenault]

Many of the supplements are already up on Hulu, but they'd probably have to integrate them in some way with the film with which they're meant to accompany. Also, I'm sure this has been discussed here before, but why did Hulu change its interface so that now you can't browse films by director anymore? Another pressing question is will they ever completely do away with DVD even if physical media is here to stay? How long will it be until their new additions to the mainline are released exclusively on blu-ray? I'm sure not too long from now it'll be standard procedure to include a blu-ray disc drive in all laptops just like it has been to include a DVD drive up until now.

[Matt]

The problem is that no streaming service exists that can "package" films with supplements the way Criterion does on disc. Though I'm sure Hulu Plus has been better for them than Netflix, they'd probably be much better served developing their own streaming channel like Warner Archive has done. That's a tall order for a small company, though.

[jwd5275]

I think one of the problems of integrating the supplements is not so much the extras interviews, etc., but figuring out how to efficiently add and market commentaries. In the talk, Becker made it clear that they were proud that they had 'invented' the commentary with the laserdisc of King Kong and seemed to still be committed to it (even if that has not come out in many recent releases). I may be wrong, but as far as I have seen Hulu doesn't seem to have the capability for a secondary audio track yet (though I don't doubt they are working towards it) and this is likely what is holding streaming commentaries back. I don't think that it is likely that they will ever get rid of dvd. DVDs are cheaper and still have a far greater audience, as many casual viewers do not care enough about the difference in picture quality to shell out the time or money to replace their old dvd player. Also remember, Criterion / Janus are committed to reaching as wide an audience as possible and even still deal in the antique media of *gasp* film.

[matrixschmatrix]

I imagine that a lot of their overseas sales are still in DVDs, too, assuming it's as true there as here that it's enormously easier to go region free on DVD than on blu.

[movielocke]

Physical media prices can always rise back to their laserdisc prices as demand drops. Criterion can make that business model work as well. and there will be less of a need for B&M stores to carry product because as physical stores vanish, the internet fills the demand gap, because you'll be able to buy it and have amazon will drop it off at your doorstep before you get home from work.

It's interesting that their sales have actually increased in the last few years, I'd attribute this to a few possible things:

1. For the first few years they were in bluray, they were something like 30-40% of the pre 1970s bluray releases, so they had a larger market share

2. Barnes and Noble's regular 50% off sale lowered the effective price floor to a more accessible level. If you can wait,you no longer have to bite the bullet and pay the premium.

3. The millennial generation who bought into DVD in the late 90s and early 00s but could never afford many criterions (especially not at suncoast prices), now have careers and disposable income and can afford criterion, and bluray makes it all feel new and exciting.

4. The internet has ennabled greater participation in cineaste culture/topics which has increased the baseline demand for the releases criterion specializes in. They're possibly in something of a virtuous cycle/positive feedback loop wherein a release fuels demand for more releases.

[rrenault]

What I find fascinating is how at one point in time, say 12-15 years ago, owning DVDs or videos was seen as childish. There was this presumption only kids owned movies and that at one point they'd grow out of it, because "adults just don't own movies". But as we've realized, it was simply a generational gap. Because people who are now in their twenties and thirties are showing no signs of growing out of owning DVDs. Most people in their fifties and sixties would never think to buy a copy of even their favorite movie. The notion of owning a movie on DVD just seems childish and immature to them, regardless of what movie it is.

[Matt]

Most people in their fifties and sixties would never think to buy a copy of even their favorite movie. The notion of owning a movie on DVD just seems childish and immature to them, regardless of what movie it is.

I'm sorry, I don't see this at all. This might be your experience, but not mine. I think my stepmom (in her 60s) has more DVDs of classic Hollywood films than I do. And I daresay there are several people on this very forum in their 50s and 60s with quite prodigious DVD collections.

[rrenault]

And I daresay there are several people on this very forum in their 50s and 60s with quite prodigious DVD collections.

Oh, I'm sure of that, but I'm referring to casual viewers who aren't diehard cinephiles. I'm sure Jonathan Rosenbaum devotes en entire room to his film collection.

[rrenault]

The Young Girls of Rochefort tonight it is. Sorry Criterion. Nice to see there are a couple of non-Criterion hidden gems between the cracks on Hulu. It also appears Kino has a decent relationship with Hulu.

[matrixschmatrix]

And I daresay there are several people on this very forum in their 50s and 60s with quite prodigious DVD collections.

Oh, I'm sure of that, but I'm referring to casual viewers who aren't diehard cinephiles. I'm sure Jonathan Rosenbaum devotes en entire room to his film collection.

I've made a couple of huge additions to my collection from the estates of elderly people who had beautifully curated collections numbering into the hundreds, but were often marked by interests outside of cinephilia (lots of WWII documentaries or John Wayne movies or the like, not a lot of foreign language titles. Certainly I know older people for whom movies in general are for young people, but I don't know that they represent the vast majority; and I would imagine that DVDs are more elder friendly than downloads and streaming and what have you.

(And of course, 50s and 60s is middle aged more than elderly- and the collector's mania has been with us for a long, long time.)

[Matt]

And I daresay there are several people on this very forum in their 50s and 60s with quite prodigious DVD collections.

Oh, I'm sure of that, but I'm referring to casual viewers who aren't diehard cinephiles.

Well of course casual viewers (of any age) aren't going to have big DVD collections, nor are casual listeners of music going to have a big LP/CD collection, nor casual readers to have shelves overflowing with books, nor casual cooks to have cupboards full of All-Clad pans. And it's not uncommon for non-collectors (of any age) to look down on collectors (of pretty much anything). How many of us have had a friend ask us, "Have you actually seen all of these movies?" (or "Have you actually read all these books?" etc.)

[buskeat]

I generally use Hulu Plus as the new renting. Saw Babette's Feast for the first time last week. Loved it. Now I'm likely going to buy it because I want my own copy.

[rrenault]

Just out of curiosity, where do people feel using a service to mask one's IP address in order to use Hulu Plus is on the totem pole in terms of illegality relative to say pirating? Is it comparable to having a region free player, which some may also argue is technically illegal? I'm just asking, do people find masking an IP address to use Hulu + as offensive as file sharing? I started thinking about this after just discovering the piracy thread.

[Moe Dickstein]

Depends, are you paying for the Hulu plus service as well?

[rrenault]

Yes, of course I am. I'm paying the $7.99 a month for Hulu Plus, as well as a few extra bucks a month for a service that masks my IP address. I'm not tech savvy enough to figure that out on my own.

[jwd5275]

IP masked Hulu = region free player

[Moe Dickstein]

Exactly. If you're paying I see nothing wrong