Why Won't They Release Only What I Want?

[TMDaines]

Re: HistoryProf.

Tommaso has paraphrased my response for me. It isn't a case of being able to buy everything. It's simply allowing yourself to have the greatest range of possibilites, so I'm not at the mercy of a couple of minds behind a few DVD labels. In reality, of all the titles I import, 80% of them I can be fairly certain will never get a UK or US release. As I said before, this will boil down to how you approach watching film: whether you put a desire to watch individual films first, or whether other factors are a priority, such as R1 availability (whether conosciously or not). I'm into German and Italian cinema primarily and love discovering new films reading about it or by leaping from one film to another. It would be impossible to fulfil this interest through another re-release of the same Fassbinder films. Importing is one way of expanding my horizons, backchannels and all their goodies are another. In short, I'm going to make the most of living in a globalised world. Life as a whole is much richer once you realise what the whole world has to offer and not just your one island.

Edit: Typos

[MichaelB]

In the vast majority of cases, only a comparatively small (and often tiny) selection of a particular filmmaker's work is likely to be made available outside his or her home territory. So if you discovered, say, František Vláčil's work via Facets' or Second Run's various DVDs, or indeed Criterion's upcoming BD of Marketa Lazarová, you'll run out of titles very quickly (all three labels combined have only released four), and you won't have seen anything made outside the 1960s from a creative career that spanned 1950-87. But a further five titles are available in the Czech Republic (albeit four of them reliant on fansubs for comprehension), more than doubling the total - and, realistically, hardly any of them are likely to get a much wider release.

The Devil's Trap might conceivably end up in an Eclipse box or as a standalone Second Run disc (I'm just speculating here: I don't know of any concrete plans), but what are the chances of an Anglosphere distributor picking up Smoke on the Potato Fields, a film made well outside the fashionable period of Czechoslovak cinema and with no obvious international marketing hook besides Vláčil's name? (And even then, it's wildly different from his 1960s films, so anyone expecting another Marketa will be sorely disappointed).

(And beyond that, we're talking things like unsubtitled TV rips - I watched Vláčil's obscure 1985 effort Albert courtesy of an off-air recording sent to me by a Czech friend, using an English translation of the Tolstoy short story that it was based on as a crib. Which for me is just as much fun as waiting - often in vain - for a release in my own territory, especially as I seriously doubt that Albert is going to get a DVD release anywhere!)

[JSC]

Having been region free for ten years now, I really don't see there is any advantage to being region locked. But then again, it depends on where your interests lie and what kind of film collection you're interested in building. But make no doubt about it, you could be waiting until doomsday before certain titles ever see the light of day on region 1 (and by that time, DVD's and Blu-ray's will probably be obsolete media).

I have found that if I wanted a near-complete oeuvre of a specific director, I have almost always had to split titles between regions in order to achieve that (Pialat, Bergman, Bresson, Antonioni, Ozu e.g.).

Or if I wanted a different edition of a film. For example, I was making a choice between the Criterion (region1) and the BFI (region2) editions of Pasolini's Decameron. The presentation of the film on both discs was very good, but I ultimately went with the BFI because I also wanted Notes for an African Orestes, which was an extra.

Sometimes I have chosen a Masters of Cinema blu-ray (region B) edition over Criterion (region A) for various reasons: either I found the print to be superior or the subtitles more legible (in Criterion's case, I have sometimes found the subtitles to be hard to read on blu-rays, especially against a white surface).

But these are just personal examples. As I said before, it really comes down to what kind of collection you want to own on disc.

[jwd5275]

It isn't a case of being able to buy everything. It's simply allowing yourself to have the greatest range of possibilites, so I'm not at the mercy of a couple of minds behind a few DVD labels. In reality, of all the titles I import, 80% of them I can be fairly certain will never get a UK or US release. As I said before, this will boil down to how you approach watching film: whether you put a desire to watch individual films first, or whether other factors are a priority, such as R1 availability (whether conosciously or not). I'm into German and Italian cinema primarily and love discovering new films reading about it or by leaping from one film to another. It would be impossible to fulfil this interest through another re-release of the same Fassbinder films. Importing is one way of expanding my horizons, backchannels and all their goodies are another. In short, I'm going to make the most of living in a globalised world. Life as a whole is much richer once you realise what the whole world has to offer and not just your one island.

This is all well and good, but no one would disagree with that. However the problem is that you constantly complain in a manner that borders on trolling. All these complaints are about titles released by a region 1 company for the region 1 market specifically in the US (which if census figures are to be believed is a market of over 315 million people) bemoaning the fact that the title has already been released in some smaller market that the vast majority of those 315 million people don't even know exists. You then begrudge everyone else who calls you on this.

I am region-free and do import what I can't find here, however I rejoice everytime a foreign dvd gets a good release in the states, not for my sake, but for the sake that all those 315 million people, 314 million of whom are region-locked.

In addition, I am not rich and cannot afford to buy every import. This makes it highly likely that these Fassbinders will show up in my local public library where I can borrow them for free.

[vsski]

While I'm region free and agree with others here that it simply provides more choice of being able to watch a particular film I really want to see and not wait for someone in my home market to release it, I think there are two issues to a release like the RWF Eclipse.
Even if we ignore the fact that the discs are readily available in another market and solely focus on it from a Region 1 perspective, I intensely dislike this release strategy. These discs were available in Region 1 for quite some time and I know it took me several years to buy them all.
The reason why I don't like the Eclipse release is that it undermines what I liked about Eclipse in the first place: it gives me a lot of titles that, especially if I were Region 1 locked, are not already available.

I bought many of the Wellspring titles in the early days of DVD, simply because they had a great selection of movies I liked and many early releases are atrocious A/V wise, however, the Fassbinder are not. They worked with the RWF Foundation when these films were released and they look far better than the normal Wellspring to the point that I don't believe the Eclipse titles will significantly improve on it even if some will benefit not having the PAL speed-up and associated issues.

If Criterion wants to re-publish these titles put some work into it, add some extras and publish them on BD in the mainline and I would have snatched them up on Day 1. And while some will say the PQ isn't good enough for BD, Criterion has issued quite a few titles by now on BD where there is only a marginal improvement over DVDs, so even extras would have made a difference.

I really liked the Eclipse line and its original intention and I would hate to see it as a dumping ground for bare bones re-releases. What's next, all the Herzogs that Anchor Bay issued with numerous extras in bare bone format just because they are also out of print? (I know, given that Becker hates Herzog we are likely to be spared from that atrocity).

[jwd5275]

I know, given that Becker hates Herzog

Please support this statement with actual evidence. From all that I have seen, this is an unfounded rumor based on the fact that Becker was not very impressed by Cave of Forgotten Dreams, something significantly different than 'hating Herzog'.

[vsski]

I know, given that Becker hates Herzog

Please support this statement with actual evidence. From all that I have seen, this is an unfounded rumor based on the fact that Becker was not very impressed by Cave of Forgotten Dreams, something significantly different than 'hating Herzog'.

Mea culpa - I should have said "given that Becker supposedly hates Herzog". I was not aware of Becker hating Herzog before reading this forum and all I ever came across is the comment about the film you state. I have read of his supposed dislike of Herzog on this forum on numerous occasions and always assumed that it was based on more than his one comment about Cave. Goes to show that maybe I shouldn't put as much credibility in the posters here than I sometimes do.

Edited for Typo.

[TMDaines]

This is all well and good, but no one would disagree with that. However the problem is that you constantly complain in a manner that borders on trolling. All these complaints are about titles released by a region 1 company for the region 1 market specifically in the US...

What part of it is trolling? A sale is a sale. They may only be able to sell them in the US, but they know full well that people from all over the world buy them, and they've always been happy to take my money and service me if I've received a faulty product of theirs. Please don't do the stereotypical "America = World" routine.

I do find it funny that you attempt to label me a troll. If Criterion from next month only started releasing stuff that was widely available before, absolutely no-one would give a shit about them. There's a reason why people get excited for Criterion's releases and not Warner's and Universal's. You can't set the bar high, be the byword for a collector's DVD and enjoy receiving all the plaudits, then at the same time become bemused when people actually hold you to those standards.

If you had read the thread fully, however, you'd realise a lot of other people and have made exactly the same comment about this release being a complete waste of time and very whelming, in comparison to what the Eclipse line has been in the past.

This makes it highly likely that these Fassbinders will show up in my local public library where I can borrow them for free.

You could also just pirate them off the Internet. Or buy them, watch them and then return them as damaged stock. You'd be contributing just as much to Criterion, the RWF Foundation et al. And I'm the troll!

[Matt]

This makes it highly likely that these Fassbinders will show up in my local public library where I can borrow them for free.

You could also just pirate them off the Internet. Or buy them, watch them and then return them as damaged stock. You'd be contributing just as much to Criterion, the RWF Foundation et al. And I'm the troll!

Libraries pay for their copies of the DVDs and have a legal right (in the US at least) to lend them to their users.

[TMDaines]

This makes it highly likely that these Fassbinders will show up in my local public library where I can borrow them for free.

You could also just pirate them off the Internet. Or buy them, watch them and then return them as damaged stock. You'd be contributing just as much to Criterion, the RWF Foundation et al. And I'm the troll!

Libraries pay for their copies of the DVDs and have a legal right (in the US at least) to lend them to their users.

I don't doubt that they do! I'm pretty sure the same applies here. It wasn't the legality I was doubting.

[jwd5275]

Wow, what a shitty, pointless Eclipse.

How do this not come close to trolling?

Please don't do the stereotypical "America = World" routine..

My point is that America IS the world as far as Criterion's marketing is concerned.

If you had read the thread fully, however, you'd realise a lot of other people and have made exactly the same comment about this release being a complete waste of time and very whelming, in comparison to what the Eclipse line has been in the past.

No. If you read the prior thread, especially vsski's response, much of the criticism is not your standard 'this has been released in another region so it is worthless' arguement you always seem to use. As was quite clear in my response, my only critique is only of the 'how dare they release something released in region 2' agruement.

You could also just pirate them off the Internet. Or buy them, watch them and then return them as damaged stock. You'd be contributing just as much to Criterion, the RWF Foundation et al. And I'm the troll!

I think Matt answered this one for me. I prefer to do the the legal thing when that option is available.

[TMDaines]

Wow, what a shitty, pointless Eclipse.

How do this not come close to trolling?

Apologies for calling a spade, a fucking shovel. I can revise it for you: "Oh, it's such a pity that this usually exquisitely curated imprint has a made a regrettably unadventurous choice."

my only critique is only of the 'how dare they release something released in region 2' agruement.

You've still not quite got what people were arguing, but anyway. Going to watch the darts.

[zedz]

Also, not liking a company's release strategy for a film doesn't give anybody the legal or moral right to steal it from them - which is where these arguments always, depressingly, seem to end up.

After all this discussion, I'm actually feeling quite fortunate about how painless and straightforward my decision to go region-free was. If I was solely relying on DVDs that were available locally, I'd have run out of films to watch in a week. I'd guess that less than 5% of my collection consisted of locally-released titles.

[NABOB OF NOWHERE]

If I was solely relying on DVDs that were available locally, I'd have run out of films to watch in a week. I'd guess that less than 5% of my collection consisted of locally-released titles.

I suppose that's one of the downsides of living on Bora Bora.

[Tommaso]

It's one of the downsides of living in Germany, too. Apart if it comes to Fassbinder films perhaps.

[TIVOLI]

First, anyone debating about going region-free should take the plunge. For me, it turned out to be as essential as getting my first Blu-ray. My conclusions were: why didn't I do this sooner, and how have I spent so much money.
Second, I tend to agree with TMDaines on his main arguments: the film is the thing, whether it is a work I have been yearning to see or an intriguing new discovery. Something unseen or unforeseen, especially when no legitimate version is available anywhere else. Many Eclipses have fulfilled this criterion. I would have loved a release such as a set of the early films of Howard Hawks. (Let me add that I have no idea what the rights isssues might be). And I have been waiting for History is Made at Night for years.
From this perspective, the Fassbinder release is a disappointment. I have the Wellsprings and the Arrow sets exist as an inexpensive alternative. On the other hand, I recognize that for whatever reason, many people are excited about the Eclipse, including budding cinephiles who have never seen any Fassbinder film. I am glad for them, because they will experience some films by a great director.

[Mr Sausage]

Wow, what a shitty, pointless Eclipse.

How do this not come close to trolling?

Apologies for calling a spade, a fucking shovel. I can revise it for you: "Oh, it's such a pity that this usually exquisitely curated imprint has a made a regrettably unadventurous choice."

You are outright trolling and I'm getting tired of it. Knock it off, right now.

[johnnysnatchclub7]

Boy am I getting tired of getting notifications for this conversation.

[Moe Dickstein]

I respectfully disagree Tivoli, it's not worth it for EVERYONE, especially if you live in R1/A, or have less interest in foreign language titles. I don't think you can make it such a blanket statement though it's certainly going to be something many people here are interested in doing.

From one who was region free and didn't find it of much use, YMMV.

[Moe Dickstein]

Boy am I getting tired of getting notifications for this conversation.

This board doesn't have an "unsubscribe to this thread" feature?

[mfunk9786]

Of course it does.

[johnnysnatchclub7]

Right you are. I was subscribed to all.

[triodelover]

I dunno. Every time I read this thread I think of Roy Acuff's Wreck on the Highway. And I'm still wondering why I can't hear anyone pray.

[TMDaines]

You are outright trolling and I'm getting tired of it. Knock it off, right now.

So even though many are people with agreeing wih points that I've made, I'm trolling?

I respectfully disagree Tivoli, it's not worth it for EVERYONE, especially if you live in R1/A, or have less interest in foreign language titles. I don't think you can make it such a blanket statement though it's certainly going to be something many people here are interested in doing.

From one who was region free and didn't find it of much use, YMMV.

Why would it not be worth it if you lived in the US? Most people here who are touting its merits are North Americans.

It's not as if it ever has to cost anything extra to be region-free either. You just have to choose your equipment sagely. I was region-free from my first £50 Blu-ray player and ditto on my PC with an external drive.

[Mr Sausage]

So even though many are people with agreeing wih points that I've made, I'm trolling?

How would that possibly mean you're not?

You can discuss this topic, but enough with the empty, rude provocations.