The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

[Steven H]

I almost sat this list out because I realized I was just all over over the place when it came to 'horror' and just couldn't figure out where I stood on it. Reading through this thread and watching some of the Spotlight films made me feel like I should just embrace the ambiguity somewhat, so thanks. While I'm with zedz on fare such as City of Pirates and Valerie..., I'm also preparing a Sad Pandas entry for Walz's Killer Condom (a much better film than its title gives the impression of, I think). I thought about including Kawamoto's The Book of the Dead but it just doesn't fit and I'll save it for the animation list. However, there's no way Hanada's cheap and gruesome Midori would make it onto that one, so I can't help but not toss it on the pile for this one.

[swo17]

It's already been established in this thread that the entirety of Riget counts as a single film.

Twin Peaks the TV series is ineligible. However, unless domino says otherwise, the pilot episode should be eligible on its own, as that was distributed theatrically in some parts. (That's how it's been treated in the decades project, anyway.)

[Yojimbo]

I almost sat this list out because I realized I was just all over over the place when it came to 'horror' and just couldn't figure out where I stood on it.

My brother is a big horror fan, also, and he asked me was I including 'Aliens' on my list, and I said I'd regard that as more Science-Fiction, but then there's a case for including it, and 'Alien'
(although a much stronger one for John Carpenter's remake of 'The Thing')

Decisions, Decisions,.....

But, for anybody who has access to it, 'Time Out Film Guide' is a good benchmark
(for starters)

[Steven H]

I almost sat this list out because I realized I was just all over over the place when it came to 'horror' and just couldn't figure out where I stood on it.

My brother is a big horror fan, also, and he asked me was I including 'Aliens' on my list, and I said I'd regard that as more Science-Fiction, but then there's a case for including it, and 'Alien'
(although a much stronger one for John Carpenter's remake of 'The Thing')

I had some of that going through my mind as well. To me, what makes a piece of science fiction great are the ideas behind it. So to me films like The Thing or Event Horizon, which feel like stories about demons or demon possession more than they're presenting science fiction ideas, are a much better fit for this list. I think the Alien films are more interesting from a sci-fi perspective so I held off. This discussion reminds me of a movie I like called Demon Seed that tries VERY hard to market itself as a horror film, but really isn't. It does have a few interesting science fiction ideas in it, though.

[Lighthouse]

Twin Peaks will not be counted as a miniseries, please do not vote for it.

Ah, come on, where's the difference to Riget?

[Yojimbo]

I almost sat this list out because I realized I was just all over over the place when it came to 'horror' and just couldn't figure out where I stood on it.

My brother is a big horror fan, also, and he asked me was I including 'Aliens' on my list, and I said I'd regard that as more Science-Fiction, but then there's a case for including it, and 'Alien'
(although a much stronger one for John Carpenter's remake of 'The Thing')

I had some of that going through my mind as well. To me, what makes a piece of science fiction great are the ideas behind it. So to me films like The Thing or Event Horizon, which feel like stories about demons or demon possession more than they're presenting science fiction ideas, are a much better fit for this list. I think the Alien films are more interesting from a sci-fi perspective so I held off. This discussion reminds me of a movie I like called Demon Seed that tries VERY hard to market itself as a horror film, but really isn't. It does have a few interesting science fiction ideas in it, though.

I was thinking of including Demon Seed also

I'll be including some films that may straddle genres but are more generally regarded as 'Horror', but I'll be marking them down compared to the 'purer' Horror films, such as 'Nosferatu', and 'Night of the Living Dead'

And then there's the less-terrifying, even comedy-horror films, such as 'Bride of Frankenstein' and 'The Black Cat'
They don't send a chill through the bone as, for example, 'The Brood', but they're unquestionably Horror film Masterpieces, so they'll both be high in my list

[Steven H]

I was thinking of including Demon Seed also

Hah! That movie kills me. We should chat about it sometime in a sci-fi thread.

[domino harvey]

Anyone else voting for any TV episodes?

A couple people have, but no two for the same, so, you know... I thought about including Top Billing (directed by Child's Play/Fright Night's Todd Holland!) from the Tales From the Crypt series, as an exemplar of the anthology TV format that thrived in the eighties and early nineties, but in the end I balked

[Yojimbo]

I was thinking of including Demon Seed also

Hah! That movie kills me. We should chat about it sometime in a sci-fi thread.

I know I have, or had it on VHS; I'm not sure was I able to convert it onto DVD-R
I definitely don't have it on DVD, though
(I also had a Donald Cammell doc. on the same VHS tape)
Funny I had reason to chance upon a recent photo-article on Julie Christie yesterday.
35 years later!!!!

[Yojimbo]

Anyone else voting for any TV episodes?

A couple people have, but no two for the same, so, you know... I thought about including Top Billing (directed by Child's Play/Fright Night's Todd Holland!) from the Tales From the Crypt series, as an exemplar of the anthology TV format that thrived in the eighties and early nineties, but in the end I balked

There was one 'Twilight Zone' episode which particularly terrified me, as a young lad: one where a little girl disappeared inside the tv
It was probably the inspiration for 'Poltergeist', and was a more potent piece of work than the film, if nostalgia hasn't blurred reality for me.
'Whatever Happened To Baby Jane' gave me nightmares for weeks on end, too, and not just the first time I saw it
I'm sorely tempted to include it, even though 'Time Out' says no

[domino harvey]

Based on some of the votes I've received, you really shouldn't worry about whether a certain film is officially "horror" or not so long as it meets your own personal criteria. Because, really, some of you are crazy

[swo17]

Twin Peaks will not be counted as a miniseries, please do not vote for it.

Ah, come on, where's the difference to Riget?

Twin Peaks was a TV show, not a mini-series. If the ratings hadn't subsided after you-know-what happened, it could have conceivably gone on indefinitely for years.

[Steven H]

Based on some of the votes I've received, you really shouldn't worry about whether a certain film is officially "horror" or not so long as it meets your own personal criteria. Because, really, some of you are crazy

I definitely wasn't worried about "official horror criteria" but more "if I haven't thought enough about this to develop a personal criteria, would I be poisoning the well by joining in." This time I decided I'd be okay, though for a similar reason I sat out the Western list (for the musicals I watched a ton of films and then missed the deadline for some stupid reason).

[Lighthouse]

Well, if we don't worry if a film is a horror film or not, why worry if Twin Peaks is a film or a series, or a mini-series. At the point where it ended it had an highly sufficient end. A real end.
It is one long film for me. And it is very different from TV shows you can watch in whatever order.

Still I see no difference to Riget. Or to The Walking Dead.

Why not simply saying let's include it if one wants to vote for it?

[Yojimbo]

Well, if we don't worry if a film is a horror film or not, why worry if Twin Peaks is a film or a series, or a mini-series. At the point where it ended it had an highly sufficient end. A real end.
It is one long film for me. And it is very different from TV shows you can watch in whatever order.

Still I see no difference to Riget. Or to The Walking Dead.

Why not simply saying let's include it if one wants to vote for it?

As a compromise, anybody who is considering including 'Twin Peaks', the tv series, should include 'Twin Peaks: Fire Walks With Me', instead.
Not as great an accomplishment, but more consistently dark for Horror classification purposes.

The question is, though: is 'Inland Empire' noir or horror?

[Mr Sausage]

Well, if we don't worry if a film is a horror film or not, why worry if Twin Peaks is a film or a series, or a mini-series. At the point where it ended it had an highly sufficient end. A real end.
It is one long film for me. And it is very different from TV shows you can watch in whatever order.

Still I see no difference to Riget. Or to The Walking Dead.

Why not simply saying let's include it if one wants to vote for it?

Seriously, this again?

We decided this rule a long time ago and we're not going to change it here, now, the day this list is due, just to accommodate someone's whims. That's the final word on this subject.

[swo17]

Still I see no difference to Riget. Or to The Walking Dead.

Has the entire run of Twin Peaks or The Walking Dead ever been edited together into a single movie and distributed theatrically?

[Lighthouse]

Then I assume Riget has?

Well, I don't know if this ever happened to Twin Peaks. But you and I can't be sure that it never happened somewhere.

Well, whatever, then I will vote for the pilot (and mean in thoughts the complete series)

And not for Fire Walk with Me. Which is a different film, and not as fascinating as Twin Peaks.

[Lighthouse]

Oh, and maybe we/you should rethink this rule for further lists.

I myself don't make any differences between film and TV. What counts is how good it is, not for which medium it was made.

[matrixschmatrix]

I know episodes of Twin Peaks have been shown at the Brattle theater in Cambridge, MA two at a time, encompassing at least the entirety of the first season. On the other hand, I've seen episodes of The Muppet Show there...

[swo17]

Then I assume Riget has?

Yes. And not to just play at a single theater somewhere.

Oh, and maybe we/you should rethink this rule for further lists.

No. We've been over this and over this. These lists are for films. We're being generous allowing for mini-series as well.

[domino harvey]

This is all a bit like when a student comes to me on the day a paper is due and says "I don't understand what I'm supposed to do." We talked about this subject ad nauseum in the Westerns thread many moons ago. The rules for this specific list were outlined here in the first post from day one, over a year ago FYI. Surely you can find a horror film you love to fill one of the fifty spots Twin Peaks cannot fill

[Lighthouse]

Surely you can find a horror film you love to fill one of the fifty spots Twin Peaks cannot fill

I can, but I have a better suggestion. Instead of changing the rules we re-define the status of Twin Peaks and define that it is a mini-series (as which it can easily be viewed). Ain't that a great idea which makes everybody happy? (at least me cause TP will be my#1)

(Obviously I'm in discussing mode)

This is all a bit like when a student comes to me on the day a paper is due and says "I don't understand what I'm supposed to do." We talked about this subject ad nauseum in the Westerns thread many moons ago.

I haven't talked about this before btw., and haven't read anything about it before, and I have read only parts of this thread.

And this is not a test.

[swo17]

Things don't get to be called mini-series because they "feel like mini-series." They either are or they aren't. You are the first person in the history of the world to ever suggest that Twin Peaks is a mini-series, and you are only doing so because you want to be able to shoehorn it onto this list. Which, there isn't even any point to, since no one else will be voting for it, so it would just end up an orphan anyway.

[jiraffejustin]

I'm not really into the argument of whether Twin Peaks should be eligible or not, but I think that once the list rules have been set it's not really a democracy anymore. The runner of the list said no, so the answer is no. It's way easier to keep things in line like that, so either fill the spot or don't turn in a list. It's easier for everyone that way.