New Wave Films (UK)

[colinr0380]

Re: The Turin Horse - I'm afraid that Cinema Guild was the only way to go for me, simply for the commentary by Mr Rosenbaum (Are Artifical Eye not fond of commentaries? The only one that immediately springs to mind on one of their discs was for Land and Freedom. Or is this the issue of needing to pay the BBFC an extra fee to certify an extra audio track on a disc cropping up again?)

[NABOB OF NOWHERE]

Re: The Turin Horse - I'm afraid that Cinema Guild was the only way to go for me, simply for the commentary by Mr Rosenbaum.

On the subject of Mr Rosenbaum do NWF think his column "Global discoveries on DVD" is a waste of time? Do they not take on board that it is not just a matter of a quicker street date but other factors such as supplements/blu option/format issues as well that make for them being pushed into second place? Maybe I am going through a sensitive phase but I find the tone of the last missive from them both disingenuous re Cinema Guild and dismissive to a forum which must qualify as one of the most super-saturated mass of potential consumers in a highly competitive DVD market. As I pointed out in my initial post on this I have7 NW titles and another 14 potential titles of theirs that I got from other sources. Now I like to believe i am not a nutter who delights in writing complaint letters in green ink to all and sundry and surely there are boatloads of people who also shop around on the WORLDWIDE web.

[accatone]

My opinion/personal experience: Many people i know, that would qualify as your typical academic "arthouse target audience", do not hang around in the internet and do not care about the newest technical developments (blu ray). They are very happy with dvds and will happily purchase the film they like just for the opportunity to watch this particualr film.
I still believe that all this film-blog, online forum etcetera thing has a heavy "nerd"-tag on (i am including myself here to a certain extent) and would still qualify as a niche.

[TMDaines]

At the risk of getting everyone going again, we and say Cinema Guild are not supposed to be competing with each other for the custom of the readers of forums like these, we both have to be focussed on our respective national markets for practical, legal and contractual reasons. Our release dates are constrained by local considerations and of course money, rather than trying to be first in the world to release a particular title.

Well, that sounds incredibly naive...

That said, when we do release Aurora on video early next year it will have an exclusive interview with Cristi Puiu as the extra, if that inspires anyone to hold off buying the Cinema Guild edition...

Or perhaps not, as the case might be.

To respond to New Wave's last post, clearly in a strict legal/contractual sense UK companies are not supposed to be competing with foreign companies, but it's clear that the competition is happening regardless, and on the DVD/BD projects I've worked on myself I always make sure I'm aware of what other labels are or have been doing.

Surely, the only restriction is the POS where the disc is sold? And that means jack in the age of the Internet as I can buy a disc in the United States in less time than it takes me to write this message.

Of course, in the EU, I'm pretty sure you could buy or sell anything licenced for any country of the EU in any other EU country, and it would all be legal thanks to EU competition laws. We just haven't had a legal case yet, like we have had with football television rights and Olympic tickets etc.

[bdlover]

To play devils advocate, it's arguably not unreasonable for licensors to expect the widest possible theatrical release. The agencies that shoulder the real costs of these films are in it not for profit but for the prestige which is traditionally attached to theatrical. The problem, as we can see with the Dumont films, is that this model is at odds with the frosty exhibition climate, where only mainstream crossovers like Lawless, huge festival buzz titles like Anatolia and the films of the local funding agencies who pay the exhibitors their grants have a realistic chance of securing space outside the capital. We then find companies in this situation of waiting around for a slot that never comes, with the licensor, distributor and audience all invariably losing out. One might say then it is the licensors who need to reconsider their options, although taking that thought to its logical conclusion may paint an even bleaker long term picture for New Wave and the like. As the digital revolution trundles inexorably forward, audiences and TV sales ever dwindling, as exhibitors raise the commercial bar ever higher and the line between home video, on demand, download and television becomes an indistinguishable blur, the already-thin margins upon which these companies operate must at some point disappear... At that point, non-mainstream filmmaking may disappear too but I think it more likely that the agencies will give in to a more direct model, either dealing directly with download providers in different countries or even just offering their own worldwide internet download that the public, cinema clubs, anyone who wants it can access for a small fee. In fact, this could work very well, and even prove more self-sufficient than present arrangements, but the pain is going to come in the interim as those in the middle whose livelihoods are at stake try desperately to resist the inevitable, forcing content to become ever safer and ever dumber in the process.

[AidanKing]

Obviously, being able to order any DVD/BluRay from anywhere in the world over the internet has enormous advantages for people.

However, I think that one factor in deciding where to order from has to be whether you want a company which releases discs and also distributes films in cinemas in the country in which you live to be able to continue operating. If that's not a concern to you, then don't make it a criterion you take into account, that's clearly everyone's right. I just think it's best to be aware of the potential consequences of the decision, even if you don't really mind them.

[peerpee]

That's what it boils down to. We're saying we want to support New Wave, we want them to look at what's going on globally, but if they're beaten to it by months/years by a great release elsewhere, then they've lost a sale, etc. In response to that, they are saying their hands are tied and that's not what they're supposed to be doing:

We and say Cinema Guild are not supposed to be competing with each other for the custom of the readers of forums like these, we both have to be focussed on our respective national markets for practical, legal and contractual reasons.

This description of what you're "supposed" to be doing doesn't reflect the reality of the marketplace and is in direct contrast to (for example) how BFI, Second Run, and MoC operate (and, I would hasten to add, Cinema Guild. Look at their stacked release of OUR BELOVED MONTH OF AUGUST.)

There are no practical, legal, or contractual reasons that state you can't keep your eye out for what's going on in other countries and try and be the best in the world. It's what everybody else is doing!

[AidanKing]

it is our ambition to release My Joy on video if we can secure the rights reasonably. If we do, it won't be economic to make it a double disc with In the Fog.

Bearing in mind some of the comments above, might a double disc of the two films (possibly with some of the short films) be more economic than just In the Fog? New Wave could charge more and it might be a more attractive package.

[swo17]

it is our ambition to release My Joy on video if we can secure the rights reasonably.

Add some of Loznitsa's shorts and/or (especially) put this out on Blu-ray and I'll buy it Day 1. Otherwise, I'll just stick with the Kino.

[zedz]

We and say Cinema Guild are not supposed to be competing with each other for the custom of the readers of forums like these, we both have to be focussed on our respective national markets for practical, legal and contractual reasons.

This description of what you're "supposed" to be doing doesn't reflect the reality of the marketplace and is in direct contrast to (for example) how BFI, Second Run, and MoC operate (and, I would hasten to add, Cinema Guild. Look at their stacked release of OUR BELOVED MONTH OF AUGUST.)

This is really a great example of how to snag an extra sale if you're coming late to the international release party, and suggests that Cinema Guild are smart operators who took a look at their international competition and calculated what they'd need to do to compensate. I've already got the (terrific) Second Run disc, but I'll be buying the Cinema Guild as well for the shorts.

(Unless, of course, some enterprising label trumps Cinema Guild and includes those same shorts on a BluRay of Tabu!)

[zedz]

it is our ambition to release My Joy on video if we can secure the rights reasonably.

Add some of Loznitsa's shorts and/or (especially) put this out on Blu-ray and I'll buy it Day 1. Otherwise, I'll just stick with the Kino.

Seconded - though bear in mind that a lot of those earlier films aren't actually shorts. Blockade, at least, is thematically within a stone's throw of In the Fog. My Joy is another good example of a film that its admirers would readily double-dip on if New Wave Films could find a way to outdo the Kino edition. Considering the Kino is barebones and SD, there are two obvious ways of proceeding.

[MichaelB]

This is really a great example of how to snag an extra sale if you're coming late to the international release party, and suggests that Cinema Guild are smart operators who took a look at their international competition and calculated what they'd need to do to compensate. I've already got the (terrific) Second Run disc, but I'll be buying the Cinema Guild as well for the shorts.

I did this myself with the BFI's Jan Svankmajer project - between the initial meeting and the final release, Kino/KimStim had put out a three-disc edition of their own. So I naturally bought and scoured them, noting down all the aspects where I felt they'd fallen short - handily, the PAL-to-NTSC conversion (ruinously damaging with stop-motion material) wouldn't affect us, but the subtitle placement on The Castle of Otranto was horrible, as was the unacceptably distorted sound on J.S. Bach - Fantasia in G Minor (the master we were sent had the same problem, so we sourced a 35mm distribution print instead). Also, they were missing three shorts, didn't include the radically different second version of The Ossuary, and the extras were a bit skimpy.

All these points were consciously addressed when putting the BFI package together, and I'd be surprised if some double-dipping didn't result.

(Unless, of course, some enterprising label trumps Cinema Guild and includes those same shorts on a BluRay of Tabu!)

If only Tabu's UK rightsholder was aware of this forum and this thread!

[repeat]

Competitive extras are always a good selling point - I'll probably double-dip on Aurora just for the interview (presuming it's substantial). I do want to support New Wave, but I certainly wouldn't see any reason to get another SD disc without that extra. (Having said that, I do hope a lower price point will lower the threshold for those Europeans who still haven't seen this amazing film to get acquainted with it!)

My Joy is another good example of a film that its admirers would readily double-dip on if New Wave Films could find a way to outdo the Kino edition. Considering the Kino is barebones and SD, there are two obvious ways of proceeding.

I'd go as far as to say that those are the only ways - disregarding this "national market" nonsense, fact is that both English-speaking markets, that is the US and the EU, have perfectly decent English-subbed SD editions of the film, and two years after its release a good proportion of potential buyers very probably already have one of those editions. To propose that an entirely new "national" audience for a merely comparable edition of this kind of a film could be created is surely either a fatal underestimation of the film-buying people of that nation, or else a fatal overestimation of one's own marketing capabilities.

As region coding would probably be an issue (seeing as Kino have the US rights) and might effectively limit US sales, I should think the safest way to go would be a R2 double-disc SD with some of the documentaries on the other disc. Blockade would probably indeed be a better fit with In The Fog, but the earlier ones (Portrait, Landscape, Train Stop) might acccompany My Joy nicely.

(BTW - on the subject of "readers of forums like these" - while I think it's fair to assume that actually posting here is predominantly the pastime of a small crowd of nitpicking and insatiable film-nerds, into one of whom I seem to my horror to be turning by the minute, I think it's extremely unwise to disregard that much larger number of people who might passively be reading "forums like these" to find out about DVD releases. Long before I ever posted a word here, in fact as long as I've been aware of "arthouse" films on DVD, it's always been routine for me to google a) DVDBeaver and b) this forum for almost any film I'm planning to purchase.)

[zedz]

(BTW - on the subject of "readers of forums like these" - while I think it's fair to assume that actually posting here is predominantly the pastime of a small crowd of nitpicking and insatiable film-nerds, into one of whom I seem to my horror to be turning by the minute, I think it's extremely unwise to disregard that much larger number of people who might passively be reading "forums like these" to find out about DVD releases. Long before I ever posted a word here, in fact as long as I've been aware of "arthouse" films on DVD, it's always been routine for me to google a) DVDBeaver and b) this forum for almost any film I'm planning to purchase.)

I think it also bears pointing out that, in a lot of countries, there isn't really a 'national market' for these kind of films. Most people I know, when they want to track down a particular film they've heard about which isn't a recent Hollywood release, go straight to Amazon, not to the local DVD store (if there is one). They may even be surprised that a film they were interested in was available from, say, Madman (and, if you tell them that the Madman edition is actually superior to whatever North American one they picked up, they might just faint!) If you're interested in arthouse cinema and live outside the US, the UK, Japan (I guess) and a couple of the larger European nations, your default market is probably an international one.

[newwavefilms]

Tabu's UK rights holder is aware of this forum, but we can't confirm right now exactly what the extras on Tabu will be, some Gomes shorts, but which ones are tbc. They would be on DVD and Blu-ray alike.

[MichaelB]

Tabu's UK rights holder is aware of this forum

I know.

[repeat]

@newwavefilms, can you say anything definite about Elena at this point, in regard to release date, format or extras..?

[newwavefilms]

@newwavefilms, can you say anything definite about Elena at this point, in regard to release date, format or extras..?

Elena release date will be mid-Feb. On extras there's an interview, anything else tbc.
If we do Blu-ray as well is also tbc but looks likely as no other English subtitled version easily accessible.

[zedz]

Tabu's UK rights holder is aware of this forum, but we can't confirm right now exactly what the extras on Tabu will be, some Gomes shorts, but which ones are tbc. They would be on DVD and Blu-ray alike.

Thanks very much for the tip! I hope this release (theatrical and home video) does well for you: it's such a great, great film.

[repeat]

If we do Blu-ray as well is also tbc but looks likely as no other English subtitled version easily accessible.

That would be amazing! Thanks for the info, I'll hold off on the other releases.

And ditto on Tabu - just saw it on the big screen yesterday and see no reason why it couldn't become a crossover hit, if the heavenly bodies are favourably aligned etc. Looking good thus far with all those great reviews across the board!

[Calvin]

I'm really looking forward to the Tabu Blu-Ray as it wasn't showing anywhere near me. Good to hear that some of Gomes' shorts will be included - hopefully we might see some of Kiarostami's shorts on Like Someone In Love?

[RossyG]

I would also be interested to know if any of this feedback was helpful.

If it was, he's not letting on.

[McCrutchy]

That said, when we do release Aurora on video early next year it will have an exclusive interview with Cristi Puiu as the extra, if that inspires anyone to hold off buying the Cinema Guild edition...

I have that disc, but I would snap up a Blu-ray of the film in a second. The video quality on the CG disc is acceptable, but no more, and I wished it could have been better. However, reading through this thread, it would seem...unlikely at best?

As far as I can tell, there is no Blu-ray edition of the film anywhere (English-friendly or not), if that helps you.

[McCrutchy]

Talking of which, the BBFC has just rated Aurora '12A' for its cinema screenings: "Contains moderate violence, threat and gore", which is fine, except I could have sworn that there's also significant non-sexual full frontal nudity when we see the main character in his shower...

http://www.bbfc.co.uk/AFF295661/

[MichaelB]

That shouldn't preclude a 12 - I've seen frontal nudity in a PG.

For at least the last sixty years, the BBFC has maintained a pretty clear distinction between sexualised and non-sexualised nudity, and it really doesn't have a problem with the latter.