Astaire & Rogers Collection

[Fred Holywell]

In early 2009, it was widely reported that WB was in the process of remastering all of this for Blu-Ray, specifically for 2010 release:

"When upgrading 'Top Hat' (1935), Feltenstein was shocked to see how dirty the floor was on which Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers danced. That dirty floor will be clearly visible when the Astaire-Rogers films make their Blu-ray debut in 2010, as will the wires that support the Scarecrow in certain scenes of 'The Wizard of Oz.'"

Are we sure that the 'dirty floor' and 'support wires' were meant to be seen by audiences -- then, or now? Much of what we can see today, couldn't be seen when these films were released. The filmmakers knew that then, and worked accordingly. Feltenstein knows this now, but acts like it's all a 'good thing', when he knows it isn't, necessarily. Good for publicity, maybe.

[matrixschmatrix]

I don't think there's anything you'll see on a properly configured TV with a blu ray that you would not be able to see in a 35mm print.

[hearthesilence]

OTM. Also, some time after I read that, I watched a few of those films at Film Forum's comprehensive retrospective of these musicals and thought, "Huh. Those floors are dirty."

[felipe]

Should we still expect the blu-ray collection? It's been 2 years and I haven't heard of it ever since.

[Fred Holywell]

I don't think there's anything you'll see on a properly configured TV with a blu ray that you would not be able to see in a 35mm print.

I was referring to the fact that sometimes modern technology allows us to see more of what's on a 35mm negative, and subsequent print, than viewers could see in 1935, when "Top Hat" was released. Feltenstein, himself, has discussed how there can be more on an original camera negative than could have been printed back then, due to the technical limitations of the time. Now that we can see some of the detail, the 'wires' and the 'dirt', that might not have printed up back in '35, the question may be, 'should we?'. Are these 'flaws' that filmmakers expected to stay hidden, but now, thanks to modern technology, can be quite apparent today? Feltenstein probably said it a lot more succinctly than I can. Now, if I can just find that article...

[Gregory]

This is destroying my precious illusions that Astaire and Rogers only ever danced on freshly swept floors. Not that I'd be distracted by dust on the floor anyway because I'd be paying rapt attention to other things like, I dunno, Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers dancing on the damned screen for example.

My god... this reminds me of a couple comments I read when high definition first came along, to the effect of, "Oh no, the immortal goddesses of the screen won't look as perfect anymore because hi-def will reveal little flaws in their faces that weren't visible on DVD!" Yeah, really. Oh no, they look slightly more like real women! We can hardly bear to look!

[Roger Ryan]

Warners did decide to digitally erase some of the wires in WIZARD OF OZ. Who knows if they'll clean up the floor in TOP HAT

I am reminded of when Welles asked for the snow globe shot in KANE to be optically zoomed in on and Vernon Walker told him the shot would be too grainy to match the surrounding footage. Welles then suggested superimposing falling snow on the shot to help disguise the grain. This unusual abstraction exists simply due to the technical limitations of the time.

[zedz]

I am reminded of when Welles asked for the snow globe shot in KANE to be optically zoomed in on and Vernon Walker told him the shot would be too grainy to match the surrounding footage. Welles then suggested superimposing falling snow on the shot to help disguise the grain. This unusual abstraction exists simply due to the technical limitations of the time.

Apropos of not much, I recently watched Raoul Walsh's Across the Great Divide, and that features a handful of (undisguised) optical zooms which become extraordinarily grainy. I actually love this effect - it's like the movie goes all 'new wave' for a moment (or gets briefly co-opted by an extraterrestrial intelligence, since the mechanical movement is nothing like the way Walsh typically handles the camera) before collecting itself. Anyway, it's a good place to see what Welles would have been dealing with in the snowglobe shot.

[anthonyjhc]

Well, it's about time that Warners announced a definite date for the Blu ray of 'Top Hat' (not quite as good as 'GAy Divorcee' in my opinion but still damn fine) and hoping that they add to their list the definitive F and G movie, 'Swing Time', with its standout numbers including Fred's tribute to Bill 'Bojangles' Robinson (though he dances this more in the style of another of his idols, John Bubbles)
Blu ray will of course lift the veil and let us see all the wires ... so we see for the first time that Ginger didn't have to film 28 times the ascent of the stairs in 'Never gonna dance' and end up with bleeding feet, as legend has it, but was just lifted easily to the top.
Anthony (not Woop Woop but nearby)

[domino harvey]

Seven of the films are coming to Blu-Ray in Japan

[domino harvey]

I've been going through the shorts buried on all these WB discs and, after watching the short it was introducing, I had a good incredulous chuckle at the little card that preceded September in the Rain:



Because after the short only ran 4 minutes and some change, far shorter than other cartoons of this era, I did some investigating and it turns out WB just completely lopped off the last minute and a half. So, does that mean WB is pretending racist attitudes never existed? Here's the full cartoon on DailyMotion with the ending intact-- the version on the disc cuts off everything with the Gold Dust (here "Rust") twins and simply goes from the fake Astaire/Rogers dancers to the closing of the grocery store

[FlickeringWindow]

I've been going through the shorts buried on all these WB discs and, after watching the short it was introducing, I had a good incredulous chuckle at the little card that preceded September in the Rain:



Because after the short only ran 4 minutes and some change, far shorter than other cartoons of this era, I did some investigating and it turns out WB just completely lopped off the last minute and a half. So, does that mean WB is pretending racist attitudes never existed? Here's the full cartoon on DailyMotion with the ending intact-- the version on the disc cuts off everything with the Gold Dust (here "Rust") twins and simply goes from the fake Astaire/Rogers dancers to the closing of the grocery store

Nothing intentional, someone didn't do their research. The master used for The Golden Age of Looney Tunes Vol. 4 laserdisc was uncut, while the 1995 remastered "dubbed version" was edited in its final master since that's exactly how it was shown on Cartoon Network. Since the original cartoon is still pretty short (just under six minutes), whoever retrieved a master for the Carefree DVD didn't know any better. A few other cartoons were similarly edited for the remasters instead of just for broadcast like Fresh Hare (which also has an easily edited blackface ending).

I think a few Warner DVDs used colorized versions of a few cartoons by mistake, too. Even on Blu-ray, they used the laserdisc master of a cartoon for a supplement, even though it was remastered in HD for a DVD collection.