Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Other Boutique Labels

[Jack Phillips]

Having seen how well the limited edition sold, Sony may decide to license the film again, or, indeed, produce their own release.

[Perkins Cobb]

Very frank interview with Twilight Time's Nick Redman that casts a rather sympathetic light on the high price point and the Fright Night debacle.

Sounds like they're serious about the 3000 copy limit, although it would be interesting if Fright Night makes someone revisit this arrangement and get greedy. If I were the Twilight Time guys, I would've kept a gross of 'em in the garage to parcel out on Ebay over the next couple years.

[domino harvey]

That's a great interview. I've never been one to bitch too much about the prices since they share my personal anti-DVDR philosophy, and there's some great "inside baseball" stuff included in the discussion. Thanks!

[Perkins Cobb]

My only complaint after reading that is that, economically viable or not, it was criminal of them not to record a brief interview with John Guillermin after he personally asked them to release Rapture. What a colossally missed opportunity.

[vsski]

Excellent interview - thanks for catching this. Long before DVDs emerged I used to collect Sountrack CDs, as it was the next best thing to having a collection on the shelf with the film posters on it (and I always loved film music and still have a lot on vinyl). It was through the soundtrack collection that I first heard of Nick Redman and then was pleased when I saw him do the audio tracks for the Peckinpahs and some other Fox war films, but while I had heard about Twilight time since it first come out through my Screen Archives account, it never fully registered with me that Nick was the driving force behind it. Now that I know this I will buy a lot more of their titles as I really want to support him, and frankly what I have so far is quite good, some of it even excellent and before I pay $20 for a Warner Archives title that may start skipping on my player after a couple of months, I'd rather give my money to Twilight for some quality product!

[Jeff]

I can't say enough nice things about Twilight Time and Screen Archives. Yes, they're expensive, but I'm happy to support the fine work they're doing. I received my first order today, which was very well packaged and shipped USPS priority. I managed to snag one of the final free autographed Fright Night discs, and they held it until now since I had pre-ordered Picnic. I was worried it would disappear having to sit as part of an incomplete order for nearly a month, but it arrived with the rest of my order as promised. All of the Blu-rays look great (I got Mysterious Island too). Just wanted to encourage those who may have been on the fence about ordering from them. I couldn't be more pleased.

[perkizitore]

They did the same for me, but I wish I had ordered four Fright Night blu-rays instead of the other titles I ordered (considering how much the Fright Night blu goes for on Amazon Marketplace, the other items are essentially free, so I shouldn't be too greedy!).

[cdnchris]

I'm really shocked Sony would let As Good as it Gets go to someone else, even if it's only 3000 copies. Does this stop Sony from releasing their own? I understand their interest in letting certain titles go to other distributors (like what Image has been getting) but that one's a huge title for them and I would think they'd rather release their own, even if it's in bargain bins across the nation as domino suggests.

[knives]

Sony won't be allowed to release their own version for at minimum three years.

[John Hodson]

They're almost consistently in the red on titles.

Really? Guess/fact? Genuine question.

[John Edmond]

I think Knives is referring to the fact that they pay all the costs up front - and so for most titles they'll be in the red until the 3000 has almost sold out. Which could be a few years. A few instant sellouts help cover them until the rest slowly sellout.

[colinr0380]

I'm really shocked Sony would let As Good as it Gets go to someone else, even if it's only 3000 copies. Does this stop Sony from releasing their own? I understand their interest in letting certain titles go to other distributors (like what Image has been getting) but that one's a huge title for them and I would think they'd rather release their own, even if it's in bargain bins across the nation as domino suggests.

It definitely seems like a big sign of the majors (or at least Sony - do they do catalogue releases anymore?) pulling away from physical media. Though presumably they might feel that they had a good chunk of the audience for As Good As It Gets when it was first released on DVD and are now trying the collector route for Blu-Ray and whatever extras they provide (I guess even though it is new they will focus on an isolated score?)

[RodneyOz]

There was a long, detailed interview with the head of Twilight Time in which he said the cut-off point for profit on the Blu-Rays was 1500-2000 sales. In another section of the interview he indicated that both Mysterious Island and The Egyptian had passed 2000 sales, in addition to Fright Night selling out. The DVDs on the other hand seem to be selling very slowly.

The quotes I mentioned:

So therefore in order for Twilight Time to break even on one of our titles we would have to sell almost two-thirds of the run to actually be in the black, 1500-2000 units just to recoup.

and

Fright Night just sold out—and very quickly, too. Took about five weeks. A lovely Christmas gift! And Mysterious Island is also doing very well. Other than that, The Egyptian Blu-ray is our best seller so far at 2000 units. Which I think is a respectable number because that's two-thirds of the run gone.

[Jeff]

Pre-orders of The Big Heat and Journey to the Center of the Earth went up today. Based on the fact that the Screen Archives servers came to a screeching halt for five or six hours today when the pre-order went live, I'd say you'd best order sooner rather than later if you are interested in these two titles.

[domino harvey]

But but but I was informed that this was a foolish business model and they couldn't possibly be selling any titles or making money

[knives]

The question is which one will be sold out in no time. I'd love to pretend it will be the Lang, but it is likely Journey. Anyone have an opinion on that film by the way?

[ccfixx]

If it weren't for the 100 Pat Boone autographed copies of the Journey blu-ray, though, I seriously doubt there would've been any trouble with the their site today. The only other time this happened was when Screen Archives offered 100 autographed copies of Fright Night.

[Jeff]

If it weren't for the 100 Pat Boone autographed copies of the Journey blu-ray, though, I seriously doubt there would've been any trouble with the their site today. The only other time this happened was when Screen Archives offered 100 autographed copies of Fright Night.

You're probably right, though I can't imagine why anyone would want that asshole writing on their movie. The Fright Night situation was a little different. The rush came when the disc first went up for pre-order. The autographed copies were made available later as freebies to people who spent $100 on other titles. Those lasted two or three days. This was probably a combo of the autographed copies, two highly anticipated well-known films, and the "spend $85, get a free DVD" deal that TT has going. Here is what Twilight Time has to say about what went down:

SAE were as prepared as they could be...we all anticipated Fright Night levels of frenzy, but the site was apparently hit by the largest one-day traffic event in its history. SAE is hosted by Amazon and they have two big servers, but the activity today more than TRIPLED the Fright Night pre-orders...we ask your understanding in that this is not an exact science, and is very hard to predict...TT is more well-known now than 6 months ago when FN happened but this still a steep learning curve...we will now have to quadruple expectations when "As Good As It Gets" hits next month...

[TMDaines]

I doubt the first day of pre-orders for these titles - previous titles, as they've admitted haven't exactly surged off the shelves and they've noted it has been more of a consistent trickle - and a meh deal, for which you have to put $85 down, was much of the cause for these problems. People making sure they get one of the 100 autographed titles, which you may as well get if you're going to order any time soon as they are collectible and will be worth more, is the obvious cause. Even the biggest companies can struggle to stay online when there is a sudden surge of traffic for a limited time item.

[captveg]

Fright Night - which was also accompanied by 100 Autographed copies and website issues on the first pre-order day - took 5 weeks after its release date to sell out. And it's still the only title to sell all 3000 copies. I wouldn't be too worried that Journey and Big Heat will be gone before the beginning of June.

[Moe Dickstein]

Any other masochists actually going to pick up the Ritt?

I certainly will. I have never seen it (it's not on DVD and apparently never even had a VHS release), and as a Faulkner admirer, I relish the opportunity to see this most infamous of literature adaptations. The included Alex North score in lossless should also be a welcome bonus.

As much as I don't agree with TTs pricing scheme, this is exactly the type of film they should be releasing all the time. The releases I don't support are those that have already been released on a decent DVD (with extras and a proper transfer) by the studio, and their contemporary releases, which are absolutely nonsensical--I simply don't understand the logic of much of anything from post-1980 coming from this label.

TTs deal with Sony is to release titles that are already on DVD, with BD elements ready to go, but that Sony doesn't wish to release themselves. Titles like Fright Night and As Good As It Gets were ones that Sony asked them to release, not ones that TT asked for. Think of it as quid pro quo.

[ianungstad]

I bet a significant amount of stock went to ebay scalpers buying blus in bulk. When the company first launched, they had my support as they were releasing some pretty rare films that had been unavailable on home video for years. I never liked the idea of limited editions but I could see them justifying that angle in order to generate sales interest on these somewhat obscure titles. Increasingly though, the company has been focusing on blu exclusives for mainstream Hollywood films and are just becoming a glorified middle man. Maybe they are victims of their own success but Twilight Time is increasingly leaving a bad taste in my mouth. I no longer buy anything from the company.

As for the Romero Night of the Living Dead; it's in the public domain but apparently mk2 is also repping rights on behalf of Romero. Hopefully Criterion picks it up like they did with the Lynch films (also from mk2). The mk2 website mentions a high def restoration of the film.

[dwk]

I wonder what the scalpers are going to do when they can't sell their NOTLD '90 Blu-rays because no one wants the film.

As for the original, Zero-Day Releasing, the company behind the NOTLD soundtrack They Wont Stay Dead and the doc Autopsy of the Dead, posted on Twilight Time's facebook page that The Weinstein Company has the rights until 2018

[captveg]

I bet a significant amount of stock went to ebay scalpers buying blus in bulk. When the company first launched, they had my support as they were releasing some pretty rare films that had been unavailable on home video for years. I never liked the idea of limited editions but I could see them justifying that angle in order to generate sales interest on these somewhat obscure titles. Increasingly though, the company has been focusing on blu exclusives for mainstream Hollywood films and are just becoming a glorified middle man. Maybe they are victims of their own success but Twilight Time is increasingly leaving a bad taste in my mouth. I no longer buy anything from the company.

Sony is licensing them titles under a different concept than Fox is licensing them content. What should they have done, turn Sony down?

[dwk]

Seems the color timing on the NOTLD '90 Blu is screwed up, with the daytime scenes now having a really strong blue tint. (Blu-ray screenshots and a comparison between the dvd and blu-ray color timing)

Here is TT's statement on the video issue:

Just a quick note to those folk disappointed with the Blu-ray transfer of Night of the Living Dead: Today is Sunday, and we won't be able to speak with any of the studio team until tomorrow. However, we are very limited in what we can do. If it is determined that the Blu-ray is exactly what was signed off by the filmmakers and / or, other involved personnel, then we will be sure this accurately reflects everyone's intentions. On the other hand, should it be discovered that some error occurred, somewhere between telecine and master, then that would be another matter. We will know the answer in a matter of days...in the meantime all we can do is have SAE refund consumers who want to return their discs...
Apologies for any inconvenience.

Also, it seems that there are some missing sound effects during the photo montage at the end of the film.