The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

[domino harvey]

domino, do you intend to watch any good films for this project?

There are good horror movies?!

I'm trying to get a handle on this series, as it is so popular and a touchstone I've only just begun to deal with, but it's hard to look forward to more anonymous people getting murdered for no particular reason by some dude (though isn't the inverse of that the tagline?). The idea of a film (or films) worse than Part III is by far the scariest image conjured up by this project yet!

[knives]

Once you've seen one you've seen them all. The later entries try to go 'high' concept with him fighting Carrie, going to space, and such but the only successful entry is when he goes against Freddy.

[Cold Bishop]

If it's any consolation, Friday fighting Carrie was easily my favorite as a kid.

[Bill Thompson]

Friday the 13th: the Final Chapter (Joseph Zito 1984) I mean, anything other than the previous film is a step in the right direction, but at least in the prior installments Jason seemed somewhat human and therefore vulnerable and therefore threatening. Here he's the Enerdiezer Bunny, crashing through doors and windows (Jason should be on the Sears payroll for the work he's providing in his wake), shrugging off his own vivisected appendages, and at least twice appearing in two places at the same time. And God what a yawn all that is. It's like watching someone try to outfight (and outrun) a wall. On some level I can appreciate that this film has more creative kills and attempts at characterization, sort of, and at the very least seems to be providing the excess gore and nudity the previous installments teased, but to what end?

I peg this as the lone excellent film of the series. For me it's a film about the idea of myth building and destroying myths in epic fashion with some awesome kills and insanely awesome Crispin Glover thrown in for added fun.

[zedz]

domino, do you intend to watch any good films for this project?

Speaking of good horror movies (not that we were), whoever recommended Seth Holt's Taste of Fear way back when, thanks. A very effective chiller. Even though you think you can see one or other twist coming for miles ahead, the script is agile enough to navigate, and indeed play off, your expectations. Beautifully shot, too. Might not make my list in the final analysis simply because there are too many wonderful films vying for attention, but it will at least be bubbling under.

EDIT: Oh, also saw Daughters of Darkness, which is very enjoyable, especially Delphine Seyrig's high goth high camp star performance. She's always pretty fearless, and she throws herself into this ludicrous concoction 110%, kinky boots and all.

[tarpilot]

In terms of 'borderline' films that I'm struggling to justify for inclusion, I don't think anything deserves a boost more than Demon Lover Diary, Joel DeMott and Jeff Kreines' fascinating and brutally funny making-of/deconstruction-in-progress of an atrocious low-budget horror film -- perhaps the only instance in cinema history where the feature itself is only worth watching as a companion piece to its own on-set document! It's full of famous little bits that make easy you-have-to-see-this! hooks -- one of the subject's directors cut off his finger for the insurance money to finance the movie; the crew must disguise the fact that they're making a horror film in order to mooch off of the other director's hyper-religious mother; they borrow guns from Ted Nugent for the production -- but the way in which all the bizarre details come together is truly something to behold, DeMott's witty presence as narrator/host its own pleasure as she takes great delight in the wondrous clusterfuck of a film production before her. I really don't think I can justify including it here, but this seemed to be the best place to cheerlead for it at least until the 80s list (where Kreines and DeMott's other doc, Seventeen, will certainly be making my top ten).

[knives]

I would think that American Movie and maybe Burden of Dreams fit that companion idea.

[tarpilot]

Regardless of whether or not you like Fitzcarraldo (and I myself would rather revisit Burden of Dreams almost any day of the week), it's obviously more than worthy of interest on its own. And re: American Movie, aside from "feature" being part of the criteria, I think it's a markedly different beast in that Coven was never going to be more than a miniscule footnote in its doc's shadow anyway. One of the best aspects of Demon Lover Diary is the candor afforded by The Demon Lover's directors thinking no one was ever going to see DeMott's footage, that it was a case of the cameraman's amateur filmmaker girlfriend fucking around, which is basically how it started out.

[knives]

I actually don't know the history to the films you're referring, but how you described it reminded me of the Coven situation.

[matrixschmatrix]

Overnight and The Boondock Saints strikes me as a similar case- also, interestingly, a case where the documentary is a horror movie and the feature isn't.

[colinr0380]

Also, domino, number 3 is going to look like a work of genius next to what you're about to experience.

Oh yes, domino hasn't got to Part 5, Part 8 or Part 9 yet! (If you don't like indestructible Jason, you are definitely not going to like zombie or cyborg Jason!)

Since I have totally different tastes to domino, I am sure that he is going to end up enjoying Jason Goes To Hell: The Final Friday the best out of the whole series! (The one redeeming factor of that piece of work is getting to see the guy who later on played John F. Kennedy in that Kevin Costner-solves-the-Cuban-Missile-crisis film, Thirteen Days, playing a slimy media type!) The problem with the Friday series is that the sequels which go off on the wildest tangents are usually the least successful ones, such as Part 5 or Jason Goes To Hell. Freddy Vs Jason is the exception that proves the rule, but even that runs into the Alien Vs Predator problems of having to satisfy two fan bases, neither of whom can be allowed to see their particular 'hero' lose!

Part 4 is by far the best iteration of all the familiar elements of the series (mainly down to the actors, including Crispin Glover), though I quite liked Part III, 3D gimmick and all! I like the way that by Part 4 they had run out of stuff to do with the teens and had sequestered them all in their own separate house while introducing subplots with vaguely more interesting people elsewhere! A trick they repeated for Part 7, which is also one of the better ones.

And Part 6 is also a nice one (if you can forgive the creation of zombie Jason!), if only for introducing a darker element with actually having children at the summer camp for the first time. Leading to the wonderfully dark line from one ten year old to the other as the kids go off to hide: "So what did you want to be when you grew up?", which is almost worth the entire film on its own!

Jason X is an interesting example, both handicapped and liberated by this being the point at which the series definitively threw continuing plot elements out of the window. There are some fun moments of playing around with Star Trek-style conceits (the female robot companion whose magnetic nipples fall off; the holographic room programmed with Crystal Lake in order to stall Jason, replete with a couple of bouncing topless girls: "Lets smoke pot and have pre-martial sex!","I love pre-marital sex!" wich leads into an amusing call back to the sleeping bag scene from Part 7), but unfortunately it outstays its welcome after a while, has some truly groan-worthy one lines ("He's screwed" comes to mind), and the musical score is terrible!

The reason for the Cronenberg cameo is likely because Jason X is directed by one of Cronenberg's special effects technicians, James Isaac, which unfortunately brackets it with films like the Jamie Lee Curtis starring Virus (directed by the special effects director of Titanic) - films which look technically great but have a tin-ear for dialogue and extremely thin plots.

The other Cronenberg connection to Jason X is a nice appearance by Robert Silverman on one of the viewscreens as the head of the city that the spaceship is heading to (and through!) - he is probably best known for his role as the sculptor in Scanners or D'Arcy Nader in eXistenz (his last part in a Cronenberg film to date), but he also had roles in The Brood, Rabid and Naked Lunch as well.

[swo17]

Seriously though everyone watch Maniac, it's less than an hour and it's on youtube and it's gloriously insane

Quoting this to have it in the horror thread, and to second the sentiment. It's on DVD from Kino too.

[colinr0380]

Pontypool - One of my favorite modern horror films and one of the few horror films that actually scares me. With this the less you know going in the better, but let's say it takes a whole new approach to the idea that showing less can be scarier.

This was wonderfully inventive, cerebral horror - I really enjoyed it! Its quite remarkable that a film with such a wild premise can feel so perfectly conceived, even in the smallest details, but this film succeeds with such panache that I was left speechless (ahem) at its end. Also, sequestered in with the actors as you are (who refreshingly, were all fully realized people, devoid of genre cliche), the tension really seeps into you on an intimate level. Thanks for recommending it, I'll find Pontypool a comfortable spot on my list.

Spoiler

As a lover of languages, I really got a kick out of the offbeat humor embedded in their frenglish... "tu vas 'kill' le docteur", etc. If I were nominating a film to be included in my fantasy linguistics course, this would definitely be it.

Interestingly the film was also turned into a one hour radioplay version for the BBC's Worldplay series. It doesn't seem to be available from any of those links mentioned on that site, though I did find a working link to download the radio version here.

[zedz]

Interestingly the film was also turned into a one hour radioplay version for the BBC's Worldplay series. It doesn't seem to be available from any of those links mentioned on that site, though I did find a working link to download the radio version here.

The radio play is an extra on the UK BluRay. Don't know about other region versions or DVDs.

[HerrSchreck]

Seriously though everyone watch Maniac, it's less than an hour and it's on youtube and it's gloriously insane

Quoting this to have it in the horror thread, and to second the sentiment. It's on DVD from Kino too.

Nice to see Dwain Esper getting some love around here from someone besides me. I'm partial to NARCOTIC on that double feature disc, but only just barely. Esper had such a mean streak in him-- this combined with his obsession with lurid subject matter, along with his total inexperience as a filmmaker prior to getting his start (he acquired all the equipment he needed, complete with sound truck--which he rented out to low budget productions-- in a court judgement via a debtor) make for one of the most initially uncomfortable cinematic experiences that, with irresistibly (uniquely) bleak atmosphere as bait to get you to eventually return, eventually provides hugely satisfying dividends that begin to pay off as you get used all that lunacy and awful acting. Hildegarde Stadie Esper's dialog is some dense, weird stuff. Some surprisingly sublime shots and juxtapositions, some of which you're not 100% convinced is all accidental.

I could go on for so long w this horror list, I wouldn't even know where to start. . . .

[knives]

Watched a double bill of William Castle pics this weekend, MR. SARDONICUS and HOMICIDAL. While I don't know if HOMICIDAL would be considered pure horror, it has a great interesting premise, copious amounts of what must have been shocking violence and blood for the time period, an amusing twist ending (which really with the bad makeup and dubbing you can pretty much see from a mile away) and finally a spectacularly enigmatic leading actress. It was apparently Castle's answer to PSYCHO, and it really is effective in an almost surreal, very highly stylized way.

Funny thing is that I didn't realize that twist was coming at all, yet the similar plot turn in Ruiz's Dog's Dialogue was realized by me immediately. Why one worked and not the other I don't know.

[domino harvey]

Friday the 13th Part V: A New Beginning (Danny Steinmann 1985) A less than halfhearted attempt to cash in on the mentally ill teens subsection of 80s slasher flicks, this certainly gives III a run for laziest excuse for a film. This movie is so poorly constructed that when the real killer is revealed, the reaction is not surprise but confusion-- in a film where the primary protagonists can scarcely be discerned (the only one I can even remember now, one brief day later, is the redhead from Slumber Party Massacre II, which means she has quite a depressing IMDB entry), making your culprit a minor supporting character with maybe fifty prior seconds of screen-time the hook your film hangs its hat on is testament to this film's utter void of worth.

Friday the 13th Part VI: Jason Lives (Tom McLoughlin 1986) I didn't know going in that this was the comedic entry in the series, but I can say that such a thing was much needed at this juncture. After the parade of Jason Slashpics this film was like finding a canteen in the desert. I imagine some of the more on-the-nose bits are over-cited in academic attempts at salvaging this series, but I still chuckled a great deal all the same (though some of the best gags are free-standing, such as the series of shots of the sleeping kids clutching their reading material, which pays off with something that could have come from the Naked Gun series). This was the first time in this series where I did have a "good" time while watching, and I appreciated how the film resisted being a full-on spoof and remained a Friday the 13th pic but still played up the "fun" angles and sidestepped the worst elements of the franchise (and this too is cheekily addressed, such as when the businessman says something horribly misogynistic, only to immediately have his brains beat in). If any of these (thus far-- boy, there are still so many more to go) has a chance of making my list, this is the one.

[knives]

How are you surviving this little marathon? I don't think I've ever been able to stand more than two at a time.

[domino harvey]

Who says I've survi

[Mr Sausage]

How are you surviving this little marathon? I don't think I've ever been able to stand more than two at a time.

I once watched four of them back-to-back in one sitting (2-5). Not one of my smarter decisions. Still more fun than watching Martyrs, tho'.

Amusing to see that Domino and I actually agree on which one is the best.

[domino harvey]

I watched all seven of the original A Nightmare on Elm Street films in one long, long day. No one should see seven of any films in one day, though, is I think a good general rule

[knives]

Seven Looney Tunes films. I actually agree too that one's the most tolerable for basically the same reasons. It's still monotonous as all hell, but a few amusing bits are thrown in for good measure. I don't think I'd mind watching all of the Nightmare films though. The even ones would make it a tad annoying, but I think the series even at it's worst is just mildly obnoxious rather than out and out bad.

[Mr Sausage]

I watched all seven of the original A Nightmare on Elm Street films in one long, long day. No one should see seven of any films in one day, though, is I think a good general rule

Were you saving Freddy vs Jason for when you got through all the Friday films?

[domino harvey]

I watched all seven of the original A Nightmare on Elm Street films in one long, long day. No one should see seven of any films in one day, though, is I think a good general rule

Were you saving Freddy vs Jason for when you got through all the Friday films?

Yes, though somehow I suspect that's not the sort of film reliant on plot threads from the ten films which preceded it

[knives]

No plot's unimportant, it's more of an action film really.