Mr. Bongo Films

[ellipsis7]

My son, who is/was a student studying Chinese at University in Beijing, saw it for sale in a video shop, and with the keyword 'Antonioni' which he knew was a great interest of mine, very kindly bought it for me... That said, a peremptory internet ebay search shows no other copies readily available presently... Don't know what the subsequent story there is...

[htdm]

A couple versions are available on the mainland - most are single disc and state "English audio, Chinese subtitles.
The 2 disc Hong Kong version (Kam & Ronson) is here.

[Forrest Taft]

Mr. Bongo will be releasing Michelangelo Antonioni's Chung Kuo on March 5. According to it's Amazon product page, the main actor is "Chinese people".

[JakeB]

Haha! Great find.

[MichaelB]

Actually, now that I've watched the film, that's not quite as daft as it looks - the film does indeed feature Chinese people, none of whom are ever identified or interviewed as individuals.

OK, quick snap verdict on the three latest Mr Bongos:

Chung Kuo - China - since the original film was shot on Super 8 (!), there's obviously a limit to how good this is ever going to look. I understand that Mr Bongo used Carlotta's Digibetas for the first two parts and RAI's for the third (based on an assessment of which looked best), but they all look broadly similar. I haven't seen the Carlotta release for comparison, though I note that it's spread over two discs, which should ideally have been done here too - with grain at this level, you really need the highest bitrate possible to eliminate or at least minimise digital noise. But I found it was easy enough to tune out visual blemishes, not least because what's actually being shot is so extraordinary.

The Hourglass Sanatorium - a substantial improvement on the earlier release in terms of stability and cleanness, but it's still framed at 1.85:1, as distinct from the theatrical ratio of 2.35:1 (witnessed by me at a cinema screening, so there's no doubt about this at all). Apparently this was at the personal request of cinematographer Witold Sobocinski, who supervised the restoration - and it has to be said that the compositions do look fine: if I hadn't known of the differing aspect ratios upfront, I'd never have realised. Anyway, this now makes it absolutely certain that even if a Polish Blu-ray emerges, it'll be 1.85:1 too, as that's the ratio of the restored HD master.

The Saragossa Manuscript - again, a substantial improvement on the previous release, and unquestionably the best English-friendly release to date (as with Hourglass, the Polish DVDs are unsubtitled and in any case clearly sourced from the same master). Unlike the Polish DVD release, this is presented on one disc - I'm not sure why the Polish version came on two, since the film is in no way excessively long for a DVD, especially given that the picture doesn't even fill the screen. One slight peculiarity of the Mr Bongo disc is that although the image content is identical to that of the Polish DVD, Mr Bongo's aspect ratio is 2.24:1 as opposed to the Polish disc's 2.38:1, so one of the releases must therefore have a slightly distorted image. It's almost impossible to judge which is "correct" by eye (in isolation, both look fine), and in any case the Mr Bongo disc is the only one with English subtitles.

[ellipsis7]

For Chung Kuo Cina don't think Super 8mm, Michael, is standard 16mm pretty definitely... From the year of production & the quality of image is to me clearly so, which is confirmed in Perry & Prieto's MA Refs & Resources which cites 16mm... There were a load of supplements on the Carlotta, Feltrinelli, Chinese high end street DVD versions (all 2 disc), which are omitted from the Mr Bongo release, which also second this assumption... Above all Chung Kuo Cina was an officially sanctioned production by the Chinese authorities, who then were shocked and unseated by MA's take in his final cut, despite their constant minders in the filming... I can't imagine they would have allowed a Super 8 mm camera, which could be could be concealed and shoot surreptitiously, and although with modern transfer technology great grainy images can be produced from Super 8 mm, they weren't so forthcoming then, looks to me absolutely like standard 16mm of the era... Have to hark back also to the fact that Mr Bongo are losing substantial quality and bitrate cramming & compressing the full 3 plus hours onto a single DVD...

[MichaelB]

For Chung Kuo Cina don't think Super 8mm, Michael, is 16mm pretty definitely...

A fair number of sources say Super 8, which was such a surprise that I took it as gospel, but I'm happy to accept 16mm: it's one hell of a lot more plausible!

[ellipsis7]

Further details... Location still photo of camera used in Carlotta booklet shows by size it is 16mm kit...

Exact specs are found in an original French 1972 distributors booklet. A crew of 5 (including MA) shot for 5 weeks in China from beginning of May 1972. They actually filmed on Super 16mm using an Eclair camera, and recorded direct sound. MA shot in total some 30,000 metres of Super 16mm footage, forming about 9 hours of rushes.

2 versions were edited, the 3 hour plus version in 3 episodes for RAI television, and a 2 hour 8 minute theatrical version for cinemas...

[MichaelB]

Well, that definitely clinches it - thanks! I wonder where the Super 8 rumour came from?

For the record, the Mr Bongo version is the RAI television version, presented in three parts (though I think you can watch the whole thing in one go if you're so minded).

[knives]

Would you say it's (so far) the definitive English language release or is there a better to your knowledge release fitting that condition?

[MichaelB]

I haven't seen any other release, and there's obviously room for improvement - as I said, it's easy enough to tune out the grain and electronic noise, but I can't deny that it's there, and it would certainly have been reduced by adding a second disc and upping the bitrate. The lack of extras is also a disappointment, given the potential.

But it's very cheap indeed - currently £7.49 on Amazon.co.uk, versus €14.99 (or £12.45) on Amazon.fr for the Carlotta version, which probably won't be that much better visually (I'd expect less evidence of compression, but the masters were the same), and of course it isn't English-friendly. And those prices don't include postage, which for a UK-based customer would be nothing for Mr Bongo but quite a bit for Carlotta.

Put it like this: since I'd probably understand 80-90% of a film in Italian with French subtitles (my preferred foreign language combo if English isn't available), I might well have gone for the Carlotta, but I'm quite happy with the Mr Bongo.

[Perkins Cobb]

but it's still framed at 1.85:1, as distinct from the theatrical ratio of 2.35:1 (witnessed by me at a cinema screening, so there's no doubt about this at all). Apparently this was at the personal request of cinematographer Witold Sobocinski

And ... Poland has its own Vittorio Storaro! Unbelievable.

[knives]

Thanks for the advice.

[NABOB OF NOWHERE]

but it's still framed at 1.85:1, as distinct from the theatrical ratio of 2.35:1 (witnessed by me at a cinema screening, so there's no doubt about this at all). Apparently this was at the personal request of cinematographer Witold Sobocinski

And ... Poland has its own Vittorio Storaro! Unbelievable.

That's why they call him Witoldio.

[MichaelB]

And ... Poland has its own Vittorio Storaro! Unbelievable.

I've been doing a fair bit of digging online to see if I can turn up a detailed account of the restoration process - thus far, I've confirmed that Sobocinski was very closely involved and that he's happier with the new digital version than he was with the original 35mm version, thanks to the far greater amount of control he had over the colours (something that frustrated both him and Has at the time), but so far I haven't turned up anything concrete about the reasons for the aspect ratio change or even an acknowledgement that that's what's happened.

I'm curious about the fact that it's definitely 1.85:1 (i.e. with thin black bars) as opposed to straightforward 16:9, because this suggests that it's not just a case of framing it for widescreen monitors - and in any case, this clearly isn't general policy because the restored Saragossa is the full Scope ratio.

Out of curiosity, I dug out my old Mr Bongo edition and ran it side by side with the new one, and noticed that the restoration has a fair bit more information on all four sides of the frame...



...but I don't have a 2.35:1 grab for comparison purposes.

But, out of curiosity, I tried reframing the grab from the restoration in Scope, and ended up with:



...which, compositionally, also looks fine!

So my question is this: given that the film really does look absolutely fine in 1.85:1 (the camera barely stops moving, so any detail that might not be visible in one frame will swiftly appear in the next), might it not be the case that instead of being cropped at the sides, the restoration was actually opened up at the top and bottom? It can't be a Super 35 situation, as the format didn't exist back then - but might Has and Sobocinski have shot the film in matted 1.85:1, and then, for reasons unknown, reformatted it to Scope for cinema screenings? (Possibly because cinemas at the time were more likely to be equipped for Scope than 1.85:1, not a widely used ratio in eastern Europe at the time).

[videozor]

OK, quick snap verdict on the three latest Mr Bongos:

The Hourglass Sanatorium

The Saragossa Manuscript

Are there any extras on these two? Thanks

[MichaelB]

No. There weren't any on the Polish discs either (aside from possibly a back-slapping restoration demo), so I suspect there was nothing to license.

[GaryC]

So my question is this: given that the film really does look absolutely fine in 1.85:1 (the camera barely stops moving, so any detail that might not be visible in one frame will swiftly appear in the next), might it not be the case that instead of being cropped at the sides, the restoration was actually opened up at the top and bottom? It can't be a Super 35 situation, as the format didn't exist back then - but might Has and Sobocinski have shot the film in matted 1.85:1, and then, for reasons unknown, reformatted it to Scope for cinema screenings? (Possibly because cinemas at the time were more likely to be equipped for Scope than 1.85:1, not a widely used ratio in eastern Europe at the time).

Super 35 did not exist back then, but a very similar process called SuperScope 235 had been around since 1954. I don't know how widely it was used in Poland, if at all.

I watched the original Mr Bongo DVD just over three years ago for my review, and I don't remember any of the usual anamorphic-lens artefacts, e.g. squeezed out of focus backgrounds. That was why I was so uncertain as to whether the film was actually in Scope or not.

[MichaelB]

The original Mr Bongo DVD felt a lot more claustrophobic than the new one: opening up the image even slightly has made a surprising difference.

Anyway, here's a clip from the restored version, and hopefully you'll see what I mean: this really doesn't look like Scope cropped to standard widescreen at all.

[colinr0380]

Digital Fix on Chung Kuo China. The comments in the review makes me wish for a release of those Phil Agland documentaries at some point! (While not dealing directly with China, I'd also love to see an official release for the Channel 4 series Riding The Tiger tackling Hong Kong between 1994-97 in the run up to the handover, as well as one year after, in two series from 1997 and 1998. There are a couple of episodes up on YouTube)

[antnield]

April 23rd:



May 21st:

[knives]

Be still my heart. I really hope these aren't hatchet jobs.

[Calvin]

Hopefully Mr. Bongo prove me wrong but judging from the screening I saw a few months back, The presentation of Chimes at Midnight will be underwhelming.

[JPJ]

Mr.Bongo+Chimes at midnight means that I'm not expecting miracles either but let's hope they at least provide english subtitles,with this particular film I would really need those subs!

[MichaelB]

Based on precedent, I'd assume no subtitles unless otherwise stated.