The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

[Murdoch]

Also, I haven't seen it since I was a kid, but any fans of Cube? I'm scared (appropriate!) to see how it holds up, but I remember being absolutely wrung out with tension on that one

I just finished watching this thanks to it being brought to my attention by your post - for some reason I always confused it with The Cell - and was surprised at its twist in the group dynamics common in these types of strangers forced into a horrific situation movies.

Spoiler

The most interesting aspect of the group is how the family man and impromptu leader, Quentin, slowly descends into psychopathy, carelessly throwing his counterpart, Worth, into rooms to see if his projectile is mutilated or not. Quentin, unlike countless others in films with similar premises, doesn't keep the idea of seeing his kids again as his "reason," as he puts it, but instead devolves into the base desire to survive above all else. It can be argued that the desire to see his children was his driving force throughout the film, but I thought that something he eventually abandoned and used to mask his selfish notions of survival as the preservation of himself and at the expense of others.

The only other character given a fleshed-out identity is Holloway - the best we come to know of Worth is he designed the outer shell of the cube and has lost the will to live, Leaven is simply the genius math student, and Kazan is mentally handicapped yet also gifted with numbers. There's an interesting play of gender dynamics between Quentin and Holloway, as she questions his family man persona, to which he responds with male chauvinist rhetoric by accusing her choice of profession - doctor - and caring for the mentally retarded Kazan as a manifestation of her infertility. Quentin's evil brutishness doesn't rear its head until after Holloway's accusations that he abused his children, turning him into some sort of Stepfather-esque madman.

What strikes me the most about Quentin is how far the writers push him toward the animalistic desire to survive, coming to its apex when he forces himself upon Leaven in an attempt to get to the "bottom." At first I thought the film would descend into an Exterminating Angel-esque microcosm of society, with Leaner forced to protect herself against her male companions after Holloway is killed, but the film takes the more conventional route of having one individual take upon the role of villain while the others protect themselves against his attacks.

The ending I didn't particularly care for, however, as Quentin inexplicably appears to offer a final battle, despite his obvious incomprehension of the mathematical prime number system that governed the cube. Leaven being quickly killed off made me hate the writers as the ending was just a rushed attempt to create tension despite going against the internal logic the movie had previously established. That Leaven, who was the reason any of them found the exit, is killed in a matter of seconds by the guy that nearly raped her, and then basically forgot about as the final battle ensues, gave me a sickening feeling that discouraged me from fully enjoying the movie.

All in all this is an interesting precursor to the torture porn subgenre that mfunk has discussed, and while I never particularly cared for those kinds of films, the group dynamics and a captivating premise offered enough to keep me interested.

Any other 90s horror flicks worth a look, outside of the obvious Audition, Dead Alive, Se7en, etc.?

[domino harvey]

Any other 90s horror flicks worth a look, outside of the obvious Audition, Dead Alive, Se7en, etc.?

I was going to say Bill Paxton's Frailty, but turns out that one's actually 2002. Certainly feels like a nineties horror film (in a good way), at least. My sole spotlight title is a nineties flick. Uh, the House on Haunted Hill remake is a very cheeky guilty pleasure of mine.

[zedz]

Yikes! I've actually seen that and. . . yikes! Really?

[knives]

Frailty's a good one. Who would have thought Paxton had it in him? Agree with Zedz though on that spotlight. Reaction doesn't go much beyond yikes.

[Mr Sausage]

Any other 90s horror flicks worth a look, outside of the obvious Audition, Dead Alive, Se7en, etc.?

Cemetery Man definitely, although it's more a horror film from the 90's than a 90's horror film, if that makes sense. It's pretty brilliant, tho'.

Not a ninties film, but everyone should see Carpenter's The Fog. Sandwiched as it is between the higher profile Halloween and The Thing, it tends to be overlooked even tho' it's a highly crafted suspense film with a wonderfully nostalgic atmosphere of an old camp-fire ghost story.

[domino harvey]

Wait, you realize my spotlight isn't House on Haunted Hill, right? It's the Ally Sheedy Fear. Two separate thoughts. I am fond of House on Haunted Hill, mainly for the way the actors stomp around the dreadfully lame set-up with such hammy zeal, but I would never foist that flick on the unsuspecting!

[zedz]

The only 90s film on my provisional list apart from some obvious ones (Audition, Exorcist III, The Kingdom etc.) is Rowan Woods' The Boys, though I'm undecided whether or not it really counts as a horror film in generic terms (it definitely does in terms of effect.)

[tarpilot]

As far as the 90s go, my possibles-to-likelys include In the Mouth of Madness (Sam Neill at his nutty best in my favourite Carpenter after Assault on Precinct 13) and Ferrara's The Addiction and Body Snatchers. I also strongly recommend Wings Hauser's The Art of Dying, especially for the more torture porn-inclined amongst us. It's a strangely inventive and satirical Dream Machine slaughter pic, repulsive from top to bottom but beholden with a sense of the grotesque and ridiculous that the schizophrenic trailer doesn't even begin to convey.

[Murdoch]

Uh, the House on Haunted Hill remake is a very cheeky guilty pleasure of mine.

I've seen that one, and it is indeed good fun - I liked seeing Rush in Vincent Price attire. I'm not usually a fan of gore as it tends to make me queasy, so I try to approach it on an empty stomach! The chamber scene was great, though, and I always enjoy Taye Diggs.

And I guess I've seen more than I thought, as Cemetery Man can also be checked off. However, that is one I'd like to return to as my initial reaction wasn't favorable - I went into it expecting a simple monster/zombie movie whereas it instead was more a study of the pathos of the lead character. I was particularly averse to the hospital scene, where the filmmakers seemed to me to take glee in displaying the blood spatter of the lead's victims while I sat back sickened by the whole thing. I wish I could offer a better analysis of why the film didn't work for me, but I had such an abject reaction to this one that I have a hard time seeing its merits.

And yes, tarpilot, In the Mouth of Madness is great, I love how instead of explaining away the odd occurrences it just runs with its premise and throws away all semblance of logic.

Thanks for all the recs, guys

[knives]

On those notes, I guess I should reveal somewhat guiltily that Prince of Darkness is for me that scariest of Carpenter's films. I don't know why either especially since it's basically a comedy.

[swo17]

Re: the '90s, I believe I've raved before about Ravenous...

[Mr Sausage]

Re: the '90s, I believe I've raved before about Ravenous...

Seconding this recommendation. I'm always impressed at how deftly it evolves from a disturbing straight horror film to a pitch black absurdest comedy. Do you know if it's received a new DVD recently? My old one is still non-anamorphic.

[domino harvey]

I think I've seen Cemetery Man, does it end with

Spoiler

a stylistic reveal of the characters within a snowglobe?

[Mr Sausage]

I think I've seen Cemetery Man, does it end with

Spoiler

a stylistic reveal of the characters within a snowglobe?

Yup. The director made only four films, but snow globe imagery is in each of them.

[zedz]

Oh, another 1990s film that will be on my list (even though imdb seems to have it down as 2000): Outer Space by Peter Tscherkassky (1999). The only experimental film so far (unless you count Street of Crocodiles), though I'm sure more will occur to me.

[tarpilot]

Outer Space will safely make mine as well. As for other experimental works, Ben Rivers' House and The Hyrcynium Wood are essential, and run a combined eight minutes

EDIT: Removed YouTube links due quality concerns (duh, in retrospect); will host these a little later (there was a DVD of his work at one point but all I can find now is an Experments in Terror multi-pack with other directors' films)

EDIT-ER: Links added

[zedz]

Thanks for those links, tarpilot. Now I'm thinking I should make room for The Decay of Fiction. It's a haunted house (hotel) movie, after all.

EDIT: I see you've removed the links, but thanks anyway!

[zedz]

Next up on YouTube Horror Spotlight: the immortal La Cabina. The whole thing, it seems, without breaks. Like almost everybody else, I first saw this on late night TV, unannounced, and couldn't believe it existed.

(Though it's practically a spoiler just posting it in this thread. I thought it was going to be a slapstick comedy.)

[swo17]

Re: the '90s, I believe I've raved before about Ravenous...

Seconding this recommendation. I'm always impressed at how deftly it evolves from a disturbing straight horror film to a pitch black absurdest comedy. Do you know if it's received a new DVD recently? My old one is still non-anamorphic.

Assuming you have the original DVD, there was a newer release in 2005 (sporting this horribly unrepresentative cover) but I never bothered to upgrade.

[tarpilot]

Thanks for those links, tarpilot. Now I'm thinking I should make room for The Decay of Fiction. It's a haunted house (hotel) movie, after all.

EDIT: I see you've removed the links, but thanks anyway!

Better links back with a vengeance!

[LQ]

Martyrs (Pascal Laugier, 2008) The less said about this film the better. It’s best to let it unfold, let it slosh around in your mind for a while, and see how it sits with you – but I really feel it’s about as high-brow as this genre gets, and while that may not be saying much, it’s still quite the philosophical mind-bender. When Pascal Laugier apologizes that he made the film in the director’s introduction, he isn’t giving you some sort of “Free coffin with admission!” salespitch: He sincerely means it.

I really grapple with filmmakers stuffing extreme violence and gore into ill-fitting suits of social/political/philosophical commentary, but I found Martyrs to be a worthwhile film with ponderous ideas - not necessarily unique or new material, but surprisingly within the horror genre, material that isn't broached all that often...I really can't think of another within the genre that comments on such concepts as religious faith and ecstasy and the afterlife with such steely audacity. Its an angry, brutal piece of work but not irresponsibly so.

...However, after reading through the film's thread I am left wishing that, as Grand Illusion and mfunk discussed,

Spoiler

the director would've had the conviction to make an authoritative statement that there was no afterlife, that the cult's sadistic fetishism of martyrdom was absolutely, positively for naught. I'm fairly certain that's what the director had in mind for the audience to take away from the ending, but leaving it equivocal is a small failure on his part to just close the damn deal.

Still. A worthwhile, albeit painful exercise.

[domino harvey]

Stop making me want to see films like this

[colinr0380]

Back on the subject of 90s films, I have just watched the Guillermo del Toro's 'Director's Cut' of Mimic. It has been a long time since I last saw the theatrical version so cannot go too into detail on the various changes for this version, though it does play up the main couple's fertility problems and eventual pregnancy a lot more here, which in the commentary del Toro states is to contrast with the hugely fertile insects and the way that humanity is being superceded.

It is an interesting film but not one which really works as del Toro would likely be the first to admit - I would certainly recommend at least listening to the commentary on this one as it definitely justifies all of the usual panicky "the statements made by the participants in the commentary are entirely their own and do not reflect the views of the company" disclaimers that appear on DVDs these days! Del Toro is very open about a lot of the difficulties in the production, but also talks about how being thrown into a lot of situations led him to develop his directing style a lot, after being told that he had to keep the camera moving all the time so that the audience would not get bored! An amusing sample from the commentary: "I am now 45 and made Mimic when I was 33, which is the perfect age to be crucified".

So it sounds like perhaps this might best be classed as one of those 'difficult second films' from an important director! There seem to be quite a lot of these, as a filmmaker is trying to find their style while at the same time dealing with compromises that having a successful (or at least recognised) first feature can bring.

It was great though to think to myself when watching that the early scene of the young, seemingly autistic boy seeing the giant cockroach creatures entering and leaving the building was one which felt slightly reminiscent of the scene with the drunk raving about the giant ants going in and out of the storm drains in Them!, and then to find that Guillermo del Toro went on to namecheck that film in the commentary as one that he wished that Mimic could have become.

He also talks about the ending developing into featuring large explosions after having specifically ruled out such things from the climax! I actually find the explosive ending quite amusing, with flames rolling down subway tunnels and exploding manhole covers into the air, raining debris back down into the street, wrecking cars and causing pedestrians to flee for safety! I kept thinking that if only Mira Sorvino had just blown up the sewage system at the opening of the film, rather than releasing the genetically modified species of cockroach to control the disease carried by the rest of the insect population, then this whole situation could have been cleared up much quicker! Sure, lots of people would have been upset by the flames shooting fifty foot into the air from the sewers and their cars being destroyed by manhole covers, but then that ended up happening anyway!

Del Toro also mentions on the commentary that Mimic 3 is well worth tracking down and is apparently much closer to the original short story than the original film.

And Del Toro also notes that problems were caused by Mimic coming out at around the same time as the superficially similar 'giant insect chasing intellectual characters through sewer tunnels' film, The Relic. I revisited this film over the Christmas break as well and have to admit that, while Mimic has many more interesting themes of fertility, redemption and religion running throughout it, especially in its Director's Cut, I actually think that The Relic is the more successful film overall!

The Relic is more of a straight ahead giant monster action spectacle - it doesn't really have the depth of Mimic but at the same time I am a sucker for films where a group of characters are trapped in a confined space to bicker with each other while trying to escape a monster! Plus throw in a wonderfully eclectic cast of Linda Hunt (perhaps the last person I had ever expected to turn up in a monster movie), a surprisingly good, and rare, lead role for Tom Sizemore, a feisty one for Penelope Ann Miller and last but not least James Whitmore (aka the heroic lead from Them!) as the elderly professor.

(Apparently Constance Towers is in there too, I think as the lady who refuses to leave the main hall of the museum, thereby fatally splitting herself and her husband from the group Poseidon Adventure-style. But you'll have to forgive me if this is wrong - the latter half of the film, as in Mimic, takes place in almost total darkness!)

Disaster movie dynamics are actually probably more appropriate to discuss The Relic with rather than monster movie ones, since a lot of the fun of the film comes from the deft way that Peter Hyams is juggling multiple strands of action amongst groups of characters after having spent much of the first half of the film manoeuvring them into position like chess pieces. Plus since the monster runs amok during a swanky opening of a new museum exhibit attended by the Mayor of the City and other assorted dignataries we of course get the wonderful, slyly satirical scene (reminiscent of something like The Towering Inferno) of all the well-heeled people in suits and cocktail dresses pushing and trampling each other as they all stampede for the exit!

This is another scene that I find amusing in a way that the filmmakers likely did not intend, since I could imagine a passerby seeing all of these hundreds of people fleeing screaming down the steps of a museum thinking to themselves "That must have been a heck of an exhibition!" Luckily the filmmakers don't do anything so crass as to do a throwaway one-liner joke like that into the film, which is played commendably straight throughout.

The film is also surprisingly gruesome as well, definitely not a PG-13 with all of the severed heads rolling around the place! The scene with the SWAT team entering the building and immediately being neutralised is also extremely effective too. This one definitely has a high recommendation from me as one of the more purely fun horror films of the 90s.

[domino harvey]

I picked up that new cut of Mimic too, I'll have to give it a look as I remember liking it back when it first came out on video. I have somewhat fond memories of the Relic as well, which seems like one of those premium cable staples we started a thread for a while back, and I do vividly remember some of those gory sequences.

While not good films, the nineties horror discussion reminded me of a lot of those premium cable staples that I still remember for whatever reason: Mind Ripper, Wishmaster (with the telegraphed from a mile away scene of a criminal wishing his lawyer would go fuck himself, followed by, well, that), most of the Roger Corman Presents titles, Stir of Echoes, the Dentist, Devil's Advocate (oh early period Charlize Theron, were you ever clothed?), the Leprechaun movies, Jack Frost (which prompted much discussion in school the following weekend in terms of "Did this movie really exist or did we make it up?"), Needful Things (four hour TNT version, of course) (and though not technically PCSes, the yearly Stephen King miniseries), and of course, Tremors, the only film from this list likely to make mine.

Speaking of miniseries, anyone remember the rather neutered adaptation of Dean Koontz's Intensity? From what I've heard of Haute Tension, it seems like it owes a debt to this source.

[colinr0380]

I've not seen the series but the novel of Intensity and Haute Tension do feature a very similar, and similarly annoying 'twist'.

By the way while we are on Dean Koontz adaptations - I recommended the Kathleen Quinlan 'stuck in an office block with a killer' film Trapped a couple of pages back. There is a TV movie adaptation of Koontz's The Face of Fear (with Pam Dawber from Mork and Mindy!) which is very similar to Trapped, though I prefer the Kathleen Quinlan one more (The Face of Fear has a married couple who are trapped, which lessens the tension somewhat. And it also rather implausibly makes them off-duty moutain climbers, which facilitates their escape from the office building in the only way they know how! Plus the TV movie, understandably, does not include the rather icky scene from the book where the killer and his accomplice bond across the body of a woman that they are simultaneously having sex with!)

It has been far too long since I last saw The Servants of Twilight to remember anything about it, but it is there if anyone wants to look!

Dean Koontz's Phantoms is quite a nifty little film, especially the first section where Rose McGowan and her sister are searching the abandoned town, which creates a very Silent Hill atmosphere. Once the reason for the disappearance of the townsfolk becomes clear and Ben Affleck turns up, the film becomes a bit more generic (and reminded me a lot of the wonderfully nasty remake of The Blob), but there is still a lot of fun watching Peter O'Toole in a rare horror role!