1930s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 3)

[Shrew]

I liked Angels with Dirty Faces a lot more than I thought I would for two reasons. One is the great chemistry Cagney has with the kids, and it's easy to see why they idolize him but also why a thug like him would take an interest in them. The other is that it's Hollywood and Cagney acknowledging and admirably wrestling with the influence of the gangster film. To respond to matrix's complaint, I don't think the film thinks the scorn is a good or appropriate reaction to fear of death (that sequence is pretty harrowing, and does produce pity for Cagney) but it realizes that those kids and the real ones like them absolutely do think it is, and no amount of Pat O'Brien's liberal wishful thinking or patient admonitions will change that. Since death, as in Public Enemy only ends up glorifying the gangster, the mythos has to be destroyed by turning the gangster into what it claims to hate most, a coward.

That said, the pacing and tone warps all over after the climactic tear gas shootout, Pat O'Brien comes off as a total asshole, and it's never really clear in the first place why Cagney is nigh subservient to the man. It's got problems, but like Domino said, that ending is what the whole film's about, and it certainly tacked-on or thematically inconsistent with the rest of it.

And on Hollywood reflecting on the gangster genre, I just saw The Gay Desperado which was a lot better than I'd been led to expect of post Love Me Tonight Mamoulian. Sure it's filled with stereotypes (and sombreros)--though it could be worse--Ida Lupino gets mostly sidelined despite a few great scenes, and Nino Martini is a ham whose opera singing goes on forever and ever. But the best part of the film by far is that movie theater opening and the Mexican bandits' attempts to emulate American gangsters, only to become dissatisfied. Probably not going to make my list in all this competition but worth a look.

And another vote for the Good Fairy, though My Man Godfrey and Twentieth Century are my top screwball picks. It totally took me by surprise, as despite Preston Sturges's presence, the plot description on the box and that still of Sullavan on the back had me expecting some Borzage-Gaynor melodrama. And I found my copy at the local library fwiw. They're an obvious resource, but easily overlooked.

[Lighthouse]

And here I was thinking I'd be extravagant in giving two spots to the Marx brothers (speaking of which, we're all in agreement that Monkey Business is their best film, right? Right?)

Really?

For me it is the least of their 5 early films, which are all much better then any of their later films. I never understood why A Night at the Opera is considered as one of their best. Only the best of their MGM years

[matrixschmatrix]

Really? Monkey Business is worse than the Cocoanuts? I'd say Duck Soup>Horse Feathers>Monkey Business, then Animal Crackers and A Night at the Opera tied, then the rest. The Cocoanuts is probably as bad as they get until Room Service.

[Lighthouse]

The directing of The Cocoanuts is bad, but I thought it was more funny. Monkey Business is great in the first half on the ship, but I remember it as being less interesting and less zany in the second half.

(Doesn't the Why a Duck? scene alone make it better? )

[swo17]

"Best" is going to be subjective obviously, and though it is the best for me, my comment was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, as I'm fully aware that Monkey Business is not typically brought up as one of their best films. I do think, however, that it is the most characteristic of their films, and the best introduction to the Marx brothers for a newcomer. As someone else mentioned, it's not weighed down with a romantic subplot for one thing, allowing the zaniness to proceed uninterrupted throughout (even if it does perhaps fizzle out a bit toward the end) and Chico and Harpo each get to do a musical number (which is lacking in Duck Soup).

Another favorite of mine is Day at the Races, which, yes, features a scene in blackface toward the end, but isn't done mean-spiritedly, and the sloppy application of the face paint (in this case, grease) makes the scene seem almost more like a commentary on its use in entertainment than anything else.

[Murdoch]

For me the enjoyment I get from Marx brothers movies is directly related to the amount of harp solos (the less the better).

[Gregory]

Murdoch, if you haven't seen it already, you might get some satisfaction from watching the Popeye cartoon "Sock-a-Bye Baby" in which Harpo appears playing his harp and won't shut up, so Popeye punches him to death.

[Murdoch]

I'll have to check that out, that sounds great. Every time he'd sit down and strum on that harp the movie dropped to a snail's pace.

[domino harvey]

Animal Crackers is by far my favorite Marx Brothers film, just to throw another wrench in the "we all agree" gears

[swo17]

Grand Slam Opera (1936: Buster Keaton/Charles Lamont)

Thanks a lot for recommending this. I had indeed written off Keaton after The Cameraman but that Lost Keaton set adds an important addendum I think. This film in particular is a hoot, and I think your analysis (of how it echoes the frustrations of a mostly physical performer in an era of sound) is spot on. If nothing else, this is essential viewing for anyone who likes Top Hat (aka everyone in the world but knives ).

[tojoed]

Animal Crackers is by far my favorite Marx Brothers film, just to throw another wrench in the "we all agree" gears

Well, you and I agree on this at least.
To see Chico and Harpo destroy the game of Bridge (which they loved and were both good at) is a hoot and Groucho's dance is amazing.
Even the two lovers aren't too sickly, as Lillian Roth doesn't seem to be taking it all that seriously. I believe she was put in this film as a punishment for something or other, but she's nice to watch.

[domino harvey]

anyone who likes Top Hat (aka everyone in the world but knives ).

Top Hat sux

Just compiled my tentative list. Five Hawks films tentatively sketched in, none of them Scarface-- is that legal? No other director is even close to that well-represented. Cukor's never been as high in my esteem as in others, but his two best films are in my Top 10. First animated short I've ever voted for in these lists is hanging on at #49.

Hope to pencil in some random 30s viewings before I'm done-- hey Murdoch, which of those Carole Lombard titles in the Glamour set are essential? That thing's been sitting around my unwatched pile for years!

[swo17]

True Confession is very good, and as a bonus you get Lombard paired with Barrymore again.

[Murdoch]

Of the four Lombard Glamour titles I've watched I'd tie True Confession with Love Before Breakfast as the best. The former may be too zany and ridiculous for some, I wrote a little about it here. The latter is enjoyable mainly because of Lombard and Preston Foster's chemistry, and has a few good laughs, one of which is hinted at by the gorgeous one-sheet.

[matrixschmatrix]

So, Stage Door, Twentieth Century, and Top Hat are all coming up on my Netflix queue- any advice about which one I should prioritize? Also, if I watch all three in a row, will I turn gay?

[Murdoch]

Doesn't matter which you watch first, they're all great (although I prefer Gay Divorcee to Top Hat myself).

[Tommaso]

Also, if I watch all three in a row, will I turn gay?

Only if you add "The Mikado".

[myrnaloyisdope]

Stage Door is going to be in my top two, so that one.

[domino harvey]

Thanks for the Lombard direction, guys. Stage Door and the Gay Divorcee are both in my Top 20. Twentieth Century might get an even higher position than it has now before I turn this list in, and there's very few more ways for it to do so.

[tarpilot]

hey Murdoch, which of those Carole Lombard titles in the Glamour set are essential? That thing's been sitting around my unwatched pile for years!

Hands Across the Table is wonderful and will be featured in a prominent spot on my list. It's the third of three Leisens that will be making it (so far), but you couldn't ask to be behind two better films than Easy Living and Midnight (both of which will in all likelihood be top 10 for me).

[zedz]

Oh, why the hell not. . .

As my list currently stands, American films are the best represented for me as well (17), with France (9) and Japan (8) coming in next, ahead of Britain (5) and the USSR (4) - which pretty much corresponds with contemporary industry and later critical prominence. Five more nationalities are represented: Germany, Switzerland, Brazil, the Netherlands and Spain.

Thirteen films on my list are shorts. Ozu is the best represented director (4 films), followed by Fischinger, Gremillon and Shimizu with three apiece. Actor-wise, the only people who turn up more than twice are Cary Grant (four times, which surprised me) and, I suppose, Chishu Ryu (three times, but two of those are as an uncredited extra).

And I rewatched those early Marx Brothers films recently but frankly found them pretty much a chore between the comic set-pieces - and some of those are hardly deathless. There's just too much mediocre direction and dead air for any of the films to make the grade for me. Even my favourite, Duck Soup, suffers from this unevenness, and, laugh for laugh, I find the films trail way behind The Awful Truth or Bringing Up Baby.

[domino harvey]

Cary Grant (four times, which surprised me)

Lemme guess: Awful Truth, Bringing Up Baby, Only Angels Have Wings, and Holiday?

[reno dakota]

Cary Grant (four times, which surprised me)

Lemme guess: Awful Truth, Bringing Up Baby, Only Angels Have Wings, and Holiday?

At the moment, I have five Cary Grant films on my list: those four, plus The Eagle and the Hawk. I don't think any other actor is more represented, but Chishu Ryu and Gary Cooper are close.

[zedz]

Cary Grant (four times, which surprised me)

Lemme guess: Awful Truth, Bringing Up Baby, Only Angels Have Wings, and Holiday?

Three out of four! But to be fair, I'd forgotten Grant was in the fourth.

[domino harvey]

While we're playing these reindeer games, John Carradine tops out my list with four films (so far!)