1930s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 3)

[masterofoneinchpunch]

Hmmm, currently also have Ginger Rogers three times as well. Lead actor so far is Boris Karloff with four (top 100 has 8 appearances; mine seems to be a bit dominated by 30s horror).

[matrixschmatrix]

Haha, as far as I can tell the only actor who's in more than two of my picks is Peter Lorre, in two different languages and three different countries. I'm guessing Marlene Dietrich will be in a similar position when I work things out more clearly, though.

edit: On another note, I've just signed up for Criterion's Hulu thing today, there is a huge wealth of 30s stuff in there that's unreleased or hard to get otherwise- Leslie Howard's Scarlet Pimpernel, The Spy in Black, The Four Feathers, Things to Come, two Jacques Feyders, a Borzage, a Carné, a not-in-the-Eclipse Raymond Bernard, etc etc etc. Have you been watching this, Knives? It seems like a couple of your picks come from here- is there anything you would recommend beyond them, or would specifically recommend that I avoid?

[Wu.Qinghua]

I guess, I'll file a different sort of list. Jean Gabin stars in four of the films in my preliminary Top 50, Li-li Li and Ruan Lingyu act in 3 films each.

[matrixschmatrix]

I just watched Angels With Dirty Faces- the Cagney role in it seems perfect, likable enough that I think I understand his star quality at this point, but overall it seemed like a weak movie with strong points. The kids creeped me out, the plot hinged on melodramatic notes that never quite seemed to work, and Pat O'Brien's character came off as a sanctimonious jerk- but man, is Cagney fun. (The commentary on Angels is absolutely killer, though, one of the best I've heard from Warner.)

I rewatched The Roaring Twenties afterwards, and I enjoyed it much more this time, so it's got a slot on my list. I think it's a movie that depends somewhat on knowing the Cagney character coming in, as Key Largo does on knowing Robinson- it's not a good first one to watch for him. (Also, this time, I didn't spend half the movie hoping for a better role for Bogart.)

[myrnaloyisdope]

I remember really enjoying Angels With Dirty Faces up until the ending which ruined the movie to the point that I don't have much desire to watch it again. Cagney is pretty awesome in it and I like me some Dead End Kids, but the ending is just so appallingly stupid, hamhanded and tacked on, that I wish the film was made a few years earlier, so at least Cagney could die like a man.

The Roaring Twenties it a top ten for me though, just thoroughly great, and despite being post-code it never feels like it is moralizing or heavyhanded, the film progresses pretty naturally and the ending is one of the great ones.

I was compiling my list and realized it's really, really hard this decade as there is a ton of stuff and I could probably put together a satisfactory list of just Wellman, Vidor and Von Sternberg films, but in an effort for balance and to try an appear not so Amerocentric, I'm trying to include some international pictures, though I'm afraid that's still a weak area for me, it's mostly some Renoirs, a Naruse and Kuhle Wampe. I'm afraid that between work, moving and preparing for nuptuals, I haven't had much time to watch features the past couple of months, though I try and sneak 'em in when I can.

[domino harvey]

[...]the ending is just so appallingly stupid, hamhanded and tacked on, that I wish the film was made a few years earlier, so at least Cagney could die like a man.

But the ending is the entire point of the movie. This isn't a Code-required breakdown in the narrative, it's a final act of redemption in an otherwise wasted life.

[movielocke]

I was compiling my list and realized it's really, really hard this decade as there is a ton of stuff and I could probably put together a satisfactory list of just Wellman, Vidor and Von Sternberg films, but in an effort for balance and to try an appear not so Amerocentric, I'm trying to include some international pictures, though I'm afraid that's still a weak area for me, it's mostly some Renoirs, a Naruse and Kuhle Wampe. I'm afraid that between work, moving and preparing for nuptuals, I haven't had much time to watch features the past couple of months, though I try and sneak 'em in when I can.

My list is similar, except it's fairly comedy heavy and genre weak on the American side . I didn't include a single 30s horror, because none of those films would rise above a 7 or 8 for me, while there's a dozen or more comedies that I'd rate 9s or 10s. I've only got one 30s gangster film, Scarface, I'm considering The Roaring Twenties as well, it's in the consideration list I'm trying to get through rewatches of. :-p Internationally, it's japan dominated with Yamanaka, Ozu, Shimizu and Mizoguchi (haven't watched Silent Naruse yet, something I'll try and remedy before the deadline), that's more a factor of a lot of the European cinema of the 30s don't leave me passionate about them, Westfront 1918, Wooden Crosses, and Madchen immediately spring to mind. Otoh, Bernard's Les Miserables is my number 2, so my mileage with them clearly varies, and a lot of the stone cold international canon classics make my list, it just seems to have happened that I've lucked into noncanon movies I responded to more with Japan. :-p

edit: hmm, apparently my initial quick list of 53 has 19 non-USA films, 17 non-English films, that's more than I thought was on there, still Amero-centric, but not nearly as bad as I thought it would be.

[myrnaloyisdope]

[...]the ending is just so appallingly stupid, hamhanded and tacked on, that I wish the film was made a few years earlier, so at least Cagney could die like a man.

But the ending is the entire point of the movie. This isn't a Code-required breakdown in the narrative, it's a final act of redemption in an otherwise wasted life.

I understand what you are getting at, but I really found the ending to be hard to swallow; redemption can take on many forms, but crying on the electric chair to make a bunch of kids think you are yellow, just didn't resonate with me.

[matrixschmatrix]

[...]the ending is just so appallingly stupid, hamhanded and tacked on, that I wish the film was made a few years earlier, so at least Cagney could die like a man.

But the ending is the entire point of the movie. This isn't a Code-required breakdown in the narrative, it's a final act of redemption in an otherwise wasted life.

I thought it worked ok on Cagney's end- it fits well with how performative he has been throughout that his last act is to invert his performance- but to me, it made O'Brien seem both like an embodiment of the Hayes Code and a complete asshole. He makes his demand for the same reason the Hayes Code does, so that children won't admire a gangster, and he makes it in exactly the simplistic, conservative, never thinking about the larger picture way the Hayes Code does. We never really see him do anything for Cagney, stick up for him or try to save him from the chair (which would certainly be appropriate for a Catholic), but he's willing to sacrifice the only thing his friend (for whom he claims he would die) has left so he can get a narrative he can feed to some kids. He never thinks that maybe a better narrative would be tough guy Cagney living on, converting, becoming a different man- if I remember the dialogue correctly, he hadn't even visited Cagney in prison up until the end. What an awful man.

I'm also deeply unsettled by the idea that it reveals cowardice, or anything shameful, to be afraid of death- that it's appropriate to react with scorn, rather than pity, to Cagney's performance at the end. O'Brien's whole narrative turns on that idea.

edit:

My list is similar, except it's fairly comedy heavy and genre weak on the American side . I didn't include a single 30s horror, because none of those films would rise above a 7 or 8 for me, while there's a dozen or more comedies that I'd rate 9s or 10s. I've only got one 30s gangster film, Scarface, I'm considering The Roaring Twenties as well, it's in the consideration list I'm trying to get through rewatches of. :-p Internationally, it's japan dominated with Yamanaka, Ozu, Shimizu and Mizoguchi (haven't watched Silent Naruse yet, something I'll try and remedy before the deadline), that's more a factor of a lot of the European cinema of the 30s don't leave me passionate about them, Westfront 1918, Wooden Crosses, and Madchen immediately spring to mind. Otoh, Bernard's Les Miserables is my number 2, so my mileage with them clearly varies, and a lot of the stone cold international canon classics make my list, it just seems to have happened that I've lucked into noncanon movies I responded to more with Japan. :-p

edit: hmm, apparently my initial quick list of 53 has 19 non-USA films, 17 non-English films, that's more than I thought was on there, still Amero-centric, but not nearly as bad as I thought it would be.

Mine is going to be seriously comedy heavy- two Chaplins, as many as five Marx brothers, a W.C. Fields in the top ten, and possibly some Laurel and Hardy and Harold Lloyd slipping in- and that's not even mentioning the comedic romances.

[matrixschmatrix]

Wow, Swing, You Sinners is fucking disturbing. Was this actually shown to children in the 30s?

[swo17]

Mine is going to be seriously comedy heavy- two Chaplins, as many as five Marx brothers, a W.C. Fields in the top ten, and possibly some Laurel and Hardy and Harold Lloyd slipping in- and that's not even mentioning the comedic romances.

And here I was thinking I'd be extravagant in giving two spots to the Marx brothers (speaking of which, we're all in agreement that Monkey Business is their best film, right? Right?)

Funnily enough , I tried to have a screwball rewatch-athon last night but made the fatal mistake of putting on The Good Fairy first. This played out remarkably like my first trip to Disneyland when my parents took me on the brand new Star Tours ride and then followed it up with the light seat rumbling of Mission to Mars. The Good Fairy simply makes just about everything you put next to it look generic in comparison. I mean, Zooey Deschanel could have come knocking on my door last night wanting to go skateboarding and I would still be like "I'm finishing this movie first."

How many comedies have based their entire premise on a capital-M Misunderstanding that is only cleared up at the end of the film because if it were cleared up earlier the film would be too short? In contrast, Sturges here is setting up potential misunderstandings left and right, only to either quickly clear them up or have his characters maneuver through them in believable ways (i.e. the reason I am still talking to you even though you are acting insane for reasons I don't understand is because I want to sleep with you). They should teach screenplay classes with this thing. Through the first half, the film is also constantly, zanily shifting locations and scenarios in true screwball fashion, allowing it to sustain that first hint you get of its freshness far longer than should be humanly possible. Margaret Sullavan is adorable here (a pity she doesn't appear to have done much else of interest other than The Shop Around the Corner) and Reginald Owen as the waiter is simply a revelation. Also, pencil sharpeners. This is making my top ten.

[reno dakota]

Margaret Sullavan is adorable here (a pity she doesn't appear to have done much else of interest other than The Shop Around the Corner)

No Three Comrades on your list, then?

[matrixschmatrix]

I just rewatched Monkey Business last night, and it's definitely elbowed it's way on to the list- I'd forgotten that one didn't have the annoying young romantic couple to get in the way of the funny parts. The ending gets unfocused, and not in a good way (like the glorious chaos of Duck Soup)- but some of the bits, like Harpo and Punch and Judy or Groucho in the closet, are the equal of anything they've ever done.

How many comedies have based their entire premise on a capital-M Misunderstanding that is only cleared up at the end of the film because if it were cleared up earlier the film would be too short?

I think that's pretty exactly what Ebert termed "the idiot plot"- although he was applying it mostly to romances. It's pretty goddamn infuriating, unless it's done Wodehouse-style with an awareness that only an idiot would get that caught up in a stupid misunderstanding.

In contrast, Sturges here is setting up potential misunderstandings left and right, only to either quickly clear them up or have his characters maneuver through them in believable ways (i.e. the reason I am still talking to you even though you are acting insane for reasons I don't understand is because I want to sleep with you). They should teach screenplay classes with this thing. Through the first half, the film is also constantly, zanily shifting locations and scenarios in true screwball fashion, allowing it to sustain that first hint you get of its freshness far longer than should be humanly possible. Margaret Sullavan is adorable here (a pity she doesn't appear to have done much else of interest other than The Shop Around the Corner) and Reginald Owen as the waiter is simply a revelation. Also, pencil sharpeners. This is making my top ten.

I'm really happy to hear this- I'd always had the impression, for some reason, that Easy Living was the only pre-McGinty Sturges that was worth watching. Is there any way to watch The Good Fairy without buying it? Are there any other Sturges-written things you'd recommend?

[tojoed]

And here I was thinking I'd be extravagant in giving two spots to the Marx brothers (speaking of which, we're all in agreement that Monkey Business is their best film, right? Right?)

I have 5 Marx Brothers in my list as well.
I like "Monkey Business", but "Animal Crackers" and "Horse Feathers" are my favourites.

[swo17]

Margaret Sullavan is adorable here (a pity she doesn't appear to have done much else of interest other than The Shop Around the Corner)

No Three Comrades on your list, then?

It's on my list to watch now!

I'd always had the impression, for some reason, that Easy Living was the only pre-McGinty Sturges that was worth watching. Is there any way to watch The Good Fairy without buying it? Are there any other Sturges-written things you'd recommend?

I first saw it by getting it from my local library. Blockbuster has it in stock, but with a "very long wait." It's still in print so I don't know why Netflix wouldn't have it. Oh wait, yes I do, it's because they are the devil. As for other '30s Sturges recommendations, I remember Thirty Day Princess being pretty good, if not essential viewing.

[tojoed]

Are there any other Sturges-written things you'd recommend?

The Power and the Glory is one.

[matrixschmatrix]

Is there a release of The Power and the Glory anywhere? I'd always thought that was a lost film.

[tojoed]

No, I couldn't find one. It's a pity, but I don't think it's lost. I'm sure I saw it once, but I can't remember when.
Don't forget Gance before the deadline [/plea]

[matrixschmatrix]

I just checked, and the Power and the Glory is available through the usual backchannels- apparently it's a TV rip, though. Are the backchannels also the only way to see the Gance?

[tarpilot]

Margaret Sullavan is adorable here (a pity she doesn't appear to have done much else of interest other than The Shop Around the Corner)

No Three Comrades on your list, then?

It's on my list to watch now!

Little Man, What Now? and The Shopworn Angel for the love of God!!!

[tojoed]

I just checked, and the Power and the Glory is available through the usual backchannels- apparently it's a TV rip, though. Are the backchannels also the only way to see the Gance?

That's good to know.
The Gance is my "swapsie" thing "Grande Amour de Beethoven", available on DVD from Image.

[matrixschmatrix]

Ah, I see it now. Netflix doesn't even acknowledge that a DVD exists. It's really frustrating not to be able to rent things in these situations, particularly since Gance's work seems to be largely out of print or pricey.

[tojoed]

Yes, it's annoying. We don't have Netflix here, so I buy everything. Are they rubbish?

[matrixschmatrix]

They used to be fantastic, but lately they've become increasingly worthless- you have to pay extra for blu-rays (which they don't bother stocking for most things) they rarely upgrade when a new release of a catalog title comes out, and for a lot of the more interesting/obscure stuff they don't have it at all.

Worse, they've choked the life out of all the local rental places- I'm going to the amazing one in town now in hopes they'll have a couple of things, because this is the last day they're open (after 30 years in business.) It's nice and all to be able to watch things instantly- without extras, and often not in good condition- but they've been moving more and more to a model where online-viewing is the only way to watch things, and letting the deep cuts of their inventory dry up.

[Gregory]

Anyone looking to buy The Good Fairy should keep in mind that it's included in Kino's Glamour Girls box set, along with a couple of other good ones: Mamoulian's Love Me Tonight and Sirk's Lured (as well as Pandora and the Flying Dutchman, less desirable now due to the Blu-Ray, and frustratingly the English Version of Blue Angel). New copies are available on Amazon Marketplace for less than $30, quite a good deal for several Kino releases.