1930s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 3)

[matrixschmatrix]

I haven't seen Godfrey- it looks like it's on Netflix Instant, so I'll have to give it a shot. It sounds like everyone recommends it?

[domino harvey]

God yes

[Murdoch]

It's one of the best screwballs IMHO, the mother in the film may be the greatest character ever put in a screwball (or any comedy for that matter).

[knives]

What is food? This is the film that convinced me to give screwballs a second, third, fourth, and fifth chance. I'll be amazingly depressed if it doesn't make my final list even though it seems to be turning that way. It's one of the best performances for William Powell, Carol Lombard, and Eugene Pallette and just funny to an unfair degree no matter how you cut it.

[sinemadelisikiz]

Recommendation fourthed. Definitely my highest ranking screwball comedy so far (though not my highest ranked comedy). I was about to list everything I liked about it but it took far too long. Watch. Now.

[tarpilot]

Fifthed, and with an extra recommendation to double-feature it with Ruggles of Red Gap if you haven't seen that; I think they complement each other very nicely in several respects

[knives]

By the way this gives me an other opportunity to mention my highest rated screwball, The Divorce of Lady X. It has Olivier's best performance and you'll have to fall in love with Merle Oberon if you haven't already.

[tarpilot]

I'll throw my support behind Lady X as well; it's been a while since I've seen it but a pajama'd Merle with the bedsheet tied around her like a cape is as lovely a sight as I can imagine

[knives]

Yes, that shot with her reading the book in that garb is the cutest thing in all the world.

[swo17]

Mark your calendars, Divorce of Lady X is scheduled to air on TCM on July 13th.

I do agree on Baby in that the funny bits are good, but grafted onto the story in the way that they are just icks me out.

What are there in Baby besides funny bits?

Also, Godfrey sixthed. And Holiday, erm, thirded. Nice discussion tonight, everyone!

[matrixschmatrix]

God I love Eugene Pallette.

[Wu.Qinghua]

Having seen Leontine Sagan's 'Maedchen in Uniform / Girls in Uniform' (Germany 1931) and Cusheng Cai's 'New Women' (China 1934) over the weekend, I realized, that those 'leftist films', made by Sun, Cai, Wu etc. in KMT-ruled Shanghai in the early 30s, will actually feature prominently on my list, as, in my eyes and to my surprise, 'New Women' easily topped Sagan's movie, although 'Maedchen' will also rank quite high in my list.

As Yuan Muzhi's 'Street Angel' has already been recommended, let me hint you at two movies starring Ruan Lingyu:

Shennue / The Goddess (Wu Yonggang, China 1934)
Shennue not only contains one of Ruan' greatest performances, but, using prostitution as a symbol for oppression and victimization, is also a film, which is easily comprehensible. It's a classic of silent Chinese and World cinema, so don't miss this one. It's has been released on DVD by 'SF Silent Film Festival', but can also be found with proper English subtitles on archive.org (there's another version with no sound, too).

Xin nuexing / New Women (Cai Cusheng, China 1934)
Inspired by the real-life suicide of a then famous Chinese actress and foreshadowing Ruan's suicide on International Women's Day in 1935, 'New Women' also centers social injustice and the oppressive treatment of women in 1930s China. It's an early talkie with text cards, as many Chinese cinemas were not set up for sound then. I guess, this movie may especially appeal to members, who like more inconsistent and messy movies like Wellman's 'Heroes for Sale' or Imamura's 'Pigs & Battleships'. The film can also be found on archive.org in unsubtitled form, but subtitles etc are floating around, too. And then there's a very valuable film script, which has been translated by Eileen Chow and can be found on the web page of the MCLC Ressource Center.

[matrixschmatrix]

Man, I've been holding off on Maedchen for way too long now.

I really enjoyed My Man Godfrey, more than Ruggles of Red Gap and more even than Trouble in Paradise as far as vaguely Wodehousesque butler comedies go. I liked that the movie had the grace to make nearly all of the characters likable by the end (aside from Carlo)- for all that the movie spends a lot of time talking about how eccentric the family is, I wanted to spend more time in their company.

I also liked that a movie about rich people interacting with rich people took time to acknowledge the depression, and didn't just use Powell's stint as a homeless person as a way to give him an interesting introduction- there's a real New Deal feeling to the movie, all about giving people a leg up and a second chance (and also, Pallette's character is willing to pay his 60% income tax. Oh, for those days...) This movie is absolutely going to wind up on my list.

[matrixschmatrix]

Would anyone care to write up some thoughts about Von Sternberg? The only movies of his from the 30s that I've seen are the The Blue Angel and The Scarlet Empress (both of which I enjoyed, though I doubt Angel will make my list) and I'm neither sure of where to go next nor what I should be looking for.

[knives]

The films in the Glamour Collection are the best place to go next. The Devil is a Woman and Blonde Venus will definitely make my list and in the case of the former will be in my top ten. Here's what I wrote when I first saw it:

I just got done with my first three von Sternberg's I have to say this is without a doubt my favorite. In broad terms of what I liked from all three I have to say he is a master of actors and traditional editing. I haven't seen too many people who shift an actors performance to so many extremes, but Dietrich comes off as three different people here. I actually preferred The Devil is a Woman on that front because it seems to use the energy of screw-ball acting in a myth building drama. As for my preference to Blonde Venus I really can't figure why. It's seems the most complex I suppose. Dietrich journey feels more real than other similar ones shown during this period. I could feel and understand every action. Even odd things like the caricature of a husband and the unaging son feel completely natural in context. The production design too is amazing. Fakeness never seemed so real. Now I'm going to have to hunt down all the rest.

There's some things that I would phrase differently, but the overall enthusiasm is the same especially in regards to fakeness as reality. I also recommend Dishonored which might make my list, maybe.

[matrixschmatrix]

Haha, damn, I knew I should have waited for a response before hopping into Morocco. So with the Deitrich collaborations, I shouldn't worry too much about finding depth in the plot, yes? The things I really remember about Empress are all surfaces- the hungry look of the subhuman Peter, Deitrich's increasingly elegant lines, etc- should I worry if I'm not seeing anything else?

[reno dakota]

Would anyone care to write up some thoughts about Von Sternberg? The only movies of his from the 30s that I've seen are the The Blue Angel and The Scarlet Empress (both of which I enjoyed, though I doubt Angel will make my list) and I'm neither sure of where to go next nor what I should be looking for.

I second knives' recommendation of the Dietrich Glamour Collection, but don't forget about Shanghai Express, which I think will be my highest ranking von Sternberg of the decade.

EDIT: Morocco, too. Don't miss Morocco.

[knives]

There's depth to the plot, but in a deeply metaphorical sense. The Devil is a Woman is one of the greatest stories on stories ever and a thorough examination of von Sternberg's relationship to Deitrich while Blonde Venus is textual about accepting artificial things, a production design Certified Copy if you will, and the story is simply melodrama performed perfectly. He tended to paint his stories though rather than telling so much of the depth is in the compositions rather than the story proper. For me he is the ultimate Hollywood director and understood what about the Hollywood story is best. They're terrible at reality and existence, but great at meta-commentary, textures, and false hope. He's one of the few people that can make you film absolutely optimistic at the most down beat ending possible which occurs in many of his films. He's my number one director of the decade.

[sinemadelisikiz]

HA, everybody beat me the punch. I guess a simple "see them all!" will cover it.
But yes yes yes to The Devil is a Woman if just for atmosphere and this sort of proto-noir femme fatale that Dietrich does wonderfully. I kind of love its prolonged flashback structure which unveils the many mysteries behind her facade. And just ace production design. After Scarlet Empress though, I'm not sure anything can compare to the pure visual splendor of that film (I guess I'm lucky that this was the last one I saw).
I haven't seen any non-Dietrich Sternberg yet, but I have Crime and Punishment somewhere, so I'll watch that soon. By the way, would anyone heartily recommend An American Tragedy?

[knives]

I don't think the mystery reveal anything to be honest.

Spoiler

David Hare wrote this better than I will somewhere around here, but at the end it is clear that these stories that appear as truth are only stories. In truth Dietrich is a great person willing to self-sacrifice for the lead's happiness. This I think makes the film better as it truly examines firstly the nature behind story telling and it's relationship with the artificial, something of a pet theme for his Dietrich work, and also admits to her importance in his work. These films would be far worse off without the collaboration and just focusing on him is wrong.

It's the most beautiful concession ever.

[Nothing]

Get them all, however Shanghai Express is the best.

[sinemadelisikiz]

Spoiler

David Hare wrote this better than I will somewhere around here, but at the end it is clear that these stories that appear as truth are only stories. In truth Dietrich is a great person willing to self-sacrifice for the lead's happiness. This I think makes the film better as it truly examines firstly the nature behind story telling and it's relationship with the artificial, something of a pet theme for his Dietrich work, and also admits to her importance in his work.

Spoiler

The flashback doesn't just indicate the awful things she did though, so it's not like she only gets redemption at the end. We see her beginnings looking rather modest on a crowded train or working in a cigarette factory. I always thought these things suggested that she became who she did partly because Pasquale plucks her out of that factory and does everything to provide for her (showing to her that sexuality is a weapon). The "facade" I indicated is the assumption that she is simply a cutthroat, independent and sexually aggressive woman who uses and abuses her lovers. In a sense, yes, she certainly uses Pasquale for a financial gain, and openly toys with his emotions, but she wasn't always this way. Knowing her story, even if told from the biased view of a bitter ex-lover, kept her from being a complete villain in my eyes far before the end, though she's certainly not innocent. Admittedly, I haven't seen this film in a while, so I may be misremembering certain points. Also the lateness of the hour may lead to incoherency. I'll be sure to search for David Hare's post though.

[knives]

Spoiler

I've felt that he was telling a rashomon truth. There are elements of actuality present, but it is skewed into fiction by his misogynistic bias. She never was the villain he claimed to be and her motivations are intensely more complex than he is able to recognize. She did no awful things except in the fiction that his mind produced. She was always the girl at the beginning of the flashback and at the end of the movie, but he was too blinded by jealousy to notice. We don't know her story, just a version of it warped by emotion. By the way it's appropriate that we should disagree on interpretation for this film considering how much of it is about interpreting fiction and life.

[sinemadelisikiz]

Spoiler

Ah, I see what you mean. It never really occurred to me that it was all lies, but I did think that his story was biased. I assumed there was a grain of truth in her toying with Pasquale though, even if this can be justified by being a necessity to help her family financially. She's not just cruel for the fun of it and she has her reasons (further informed by her past). All of that is revealed in the flashback for me. I probably place more emphasis on his pursuit of her actually making her who she is, at least that's how I've always read the film. But watching the film again with a rashomon approach sounds like it would be no less enjoyable.

I guess this whole discussion kind of answers the "Is there depth to the plot?" question.

[knives]

The thing with von Sternberg is that Dietrich was always just that, Dietrich. Nothing as simple as a man could change her being and it was always the others that got burned. She's as resilient to forced change as possible and endlessly adaptable. Like you said, any cruelty stemming from her behavior is not deliberate, but rather Pasquale's inability to cope with an independent minded woman.
Thanks for the lovely convo, it's so fun to talk about these films, but the opportunity rarely arises.