1930s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 3)

[Ann Harding]

As far as I know, there is no DVD release of A Man's Castle. It would have fit well into the Borzage-Murnau set, though I think the fact that the film is cut pretty heavily put it on the shelf. I could see where they might want to sit on it, in hopes of the missing material showing up. Though Fox has a pretty crummy record of releasing films of that era.

Fox is unlikely to ever release Man's Castle as it's a Columbia production. It's certainly one of Borzage's most important picture, even in its censored version. Another great Columbia from that period is No Greater Glory (1934) based on Molnar.

[Tommaso]

Thanks for all the recommendations, I'll certainly check them out (and talking of classical horror films, Mayo's "Svengali" might be interesting for some, too).

Frank Capra's The Bitter Tea of General Yen is one of his lesser known films, but it really blew me away when I watched it a couple of weeks ago. The film does feature some heavy-handed racism about the yellow peril, Nils Asther's General Yen is portrayed very sympathetically and the film focuses primarily on the blossoming relationship between him and Barbara Stanwyck. It was interesting to see Capra use some avant-garde touches, including an incredibly striking dream sequence involving Stanwyck and Asther.

This is actually my favourite Capra film, together with Lost Horizon. It seems that General Yen is often compared to Sternberg's Shanghai Express and found wanting, but I don't know... in the Sternberg film the bit of a plot seems only to be there to have something like a (conventional) plot at all; I always thought that this whole affair with the train passengers being captured by the rebels was an unnecessary break in what is actually a total mood piece in which 'nothing' should have happened. In General Yen the plot is very well motivated, and the gorgeous visuals - indeed more daring than even Sternberg's - coalesce perfectly with it. And Stanwyck might be more stunning than ever in this film.

I share the praise for Whale's Waterloo Bridge for similar reasons as have been mentioned here, but especially because of its 'look'. The degree to which Whale constantly uses moody lighting strikes me as rather unusual for an American film of the time that doesn't belong to the horror genre; I suppose that Whale still retained a lot of influence from Murnau or German cinema in general here.

[PillowRock]

I just thought that I would mention a movie that I only ever heard of and checked out because of a recommendation in an older thread here, but haven't noticed in this thread.

The Sin of Nora Moran was made by a beyond-poverty row independent and looks (from the sets and such) to have had the budget of an average high school drama club production. However, it has an interesting multiple flashback structure (which includes a couple cases of characters breaking the fourth wall of their flashback to speak to other characters outside of their time line), an unusual for the time portrayal of the "other woman" as more admirable and virtuous than the wife (or most anybody else), and one of the few movie performances of Zita Johann as the title character.

Oh, and this would also count as an obscure Pre-Code film.

[matrixschmatrix]

Having just watched the Rules of the Game (as that was one that I figured would almost certainly be in the top 10, and which I hadn't seen):

I sort of wish I hadn't known going into this that it was a movie people at the time found shocking, as I think it works better for me as a gentle paean to the moments of grace between people whom one might expect to be enemies than a vicious satire of the bourgeois. Though Renoir's disgust at the characters' simultaneous frivolousness and reliance on propriety over genuine feeling was often evident, it's a theme I've seen treated fairly often- whereas the really beautiful moments, the poacher and the game warden comforting one another after they've lost their jobs most notably, seem almost unique to Renoir. He's more thoroughly a humanist in his approach to character than almost any artist that comes to mind, with the possible exception of Vonnegut. He really loves the nasty little bastards, and it's hard for me to view them with disgust when the author loves them so.

I think Buñuel picked up some of the more angry elements of this and ran with them, which may be another reason I was more strongly attracted to the parts that seemed uniquely Renoir. Obviously, though, there's also the element that I'm not familiar enough with the class being satirized to wholly understand the satire.

This will almost certainly wind up in my top 50, though I'm not sure it will top the Grand Illusion for me- I'll have to live with it longer, as Renoir is generally so textured that I can't take it in all at once.

[Michael Kerpan]

matrix -- if you get get to see Yamanaka's Pot worth a Million Ryo watch for a scene which uncannily prefigures a key moment in RotG. I wonder if the two scenes share a common (Hollywood?) ancestor.

[matrixschmatrix]

I'm not familiar with Yamanaka at all- is there any good source of context about him you could direct me to?

[swo17]

There's this thread for Humanity and Paper Balloons for a start.

[matrixschmatrix]

Oh, I feel stupid, I didn't make the connection- I looked him up on imdb, but didn't realize "Ballad of the Paper Balloons" and Humanity and Paper Balloons were the same film.

[RobertB]

matrixschmatrix - Rules of the Game vs. The Grand Illusion. For me the humanist value and love of all the characters is great in both. The Grand Illusion has von Stroheim. I love what he does in the film! The temporary (almost sad) unity between the classes in Grand Illusion, and the generous portrayal of the Jew. I love it. So that would make it the winner for me. BUT technical aspects in Rules of the Game. Wow. The camera work and editing in the second half of the film is hard to top. So which one I love the most depends on my mood any given day.

I have seen two more of the Renoir films from the 30s. La Marseillaise isn't as good as it should be. It has some nice quiet moments when the characters aren't in the middle of the action, but other parts are a bit too pompous. It's about how the French got the national anthem during the revolution.

La Bête humaine is more successful. A dark film about madness and murder.

[Tommaso]

It's very difficult for me to hone my list of possible 30s Renoirs down to only two or three, because I more or less adore them all. For technical aspects, indeed The Rules of the Game should range on the very top, not just because of the incredible camerawork, but also because of Renoir's uncanny sense for blocking and moving around the characters in the frame, especially in the indoor scenes in the second half of the film. The Grand Illusion, indeed, is a very touching film, and as an old Stroheim fan, this should very certainly make my list. La bete humaine is terribly impressive too, due to its intensity and Jean Gabin's striking performance as a disturbed man who conveys madness and gentleness at the same time.

I agree about La Marseillaise not being fully successful, and would say the same about The Lower Depths, which appears a little too 'light' in contrast to the hopelessness and severity of the Kurosawa version (I always feel forced to compare the two thanks or no thanks to the CC double discer, and probably this pairing doesn't do too much favour to the Renoir version, and good as Renoir's direction is, Kuro's is simply dazzling).

But two others will most likely make my list, which then might finally contain five Renoirs, which is a bit excessive, but probably deserved: Boudu saved from drowning has always been one of my favourites; I love the anarchic spirit and the combination of fun and havoc that is wreaked on the bourgeois' household by the irreverent Boudu. A very satirical and biting film, but it still shows Renoir's usual humanity and non-judgemental stance. And finally, there's Partie de campagne: this is simply one of the most beautiful films I've ever seen, showing Renoir's love for the French countryside where he grew up; a very painterly and gentle film, and a truly lovely Sylvia Bataille in the main role, and Renoir himself in a supporting part.

As to the lesser known Renoirs from the period: La nuit du carrefour is seen by many as one of his best, and Madame Bovary as well as Toni are very worth checking out, too.

[Michael Kerpan]

FWIW -- Toni is by far my Renoir favorite (anyone who has not bought the MOC DVD of this should remedy their omission as soon as possible). ;~}

[myrnaloyisdope]

I like Boudu an awful lot, but I am pretty unabashed in my love for Michel Simon. I also really like La Chienne very much. I'm always impressed at the versatility Simon has, as he is as completely believable as the mild-mannered cuckold, as he is as the wild man of Boudu. The final shot in La Chienne of Simon, just drunk out of his mind, completely oblivious to his million dollar portrait being carted away, as he finds a coin on the ground is one of those great endings that sums everything up perfectly.

I really ought to rewatch La Nuit du Carrefour with some subtitles. I watched it several years ago unsubbed, but it didn't resonate due to all that I was missing.

I'm also partial to Partie de Campagne, it's really a lovely film.

[the preacher]

I really ought to rewatch La Nuit du Carrefour with some subtitles. I watched it several years ago unsubbed, but it didn't resonate due to all that I was missing.

There are inexplicable gaps in the film's plot with and without subtitles. Myth has it that two or three reels were lost! There is another version, put about by Georges Simenon, that Renoir was drinking heavily during the making of the film and simply forgot to shoot some sections of the script. (But on another occasion, Simenon told an interviewer that Renoir was unable to film all the script because the finance ran out.)

[knives]

It's very difficult for me to hone my list of possible 30s Renoirs down to only two or three, because I more or less adore them all. For technical aspects, indeed The Rules of the Game should range on the very top, not just because of the incredible camerawork, but also because of Renoir's uncanny sense for blocking and moving around the characters in the frame, especially in the indoor scenes in the second half of the film.

You know, I'm going to have to disagree with common wisdom on that one. In all senses I find that to be his weakest film from the '30s I've seen. For pure visual strength I'll instead give it to Le Bete Humaine which is also probably my favorite of his movies period. rounding just to three titles Day in the Country and oddly enough given reputation La Marseillaise will go with that for my list(Toni and La Grand Illusion also are strong contenders).
I know I'm really going to have to explain La Marseillaise though. Basically for me it's the movie that proves Renoir's reputation. More than anything else it paints a humanist picture where no man is truly a villain, they're just stuck in unfortunate beliefs or situations. A character can act like a real bastard, but when push comes to shove he'll tip his hat to those who put forth the effort. An other way of phrasing things is that it's absolutely shocking for a Frenchman to make a movie about the revolution, pick a side, and than give just as much warmth to the opposition.

[matrixschmatrix]

You know, I'm going to have to disagree with common wisdom on that one. In all senses I find that to be his weakest film from the '30s I've seen.

Could you elaborate a little? What did you feel were the weaknesses?

[knives]

Actually someone on the forum(Micheal Kerpan?) already gave a better explanation than I could, but basically I find the film flat and that subsequent movies of the story have one-upped it. That said Renoir's performance makes me wish he had acted more.

[swo17]

The very early sound Fleischer is the best. Look for the shorts with Bimbo (which would become Betty Boop's sidekick)...please take a look at Swing, you Sinners!(1930). I think it's Fleischer at it's most surrealist. The ending is absolutely terrifying.

This was pretty great. Bimbo probably gets overly punished for his crime of stealing a chicken but I'll certainly think twice now before I ever attempt the same.

Spoiler

Fingers crossed.

The goings-on in the graveyard are pretty imaginative but yeah, the last 30 seconds or so are like this hallucinatory nightmare vision of hell that take the whole short to another level. Highly recommended.

[Michael Kerpan]

Nah -- I didn't have any profound analytical explanation for my comparatively ho-hum response to Rules (other than my affection for Renoir's character), that's just the way I wound up reacting. (It's something I don't worry about much -- you win some, you lose some). I would never suggest that anyone else should emulate my so-so reaction. ;~}|

But I DO fret that Toni doesn't get the love I think it warrants (and that everyone who even sort of likes Renoir doesn't snap up a copy of the Toni DVD).

I enjoyed Day in the Country (thanks to the lovely Madman DVD from Australia) -- but not nearly so much as Toni. (But not a big fan of Lower Depths, I'm afraid).

(typo corrected)

[knives]

I actually saw A Day in the Country and Toni on the same night so the two are pretty inseparable to me. It doesn't hurt that the stories share a few components and their strengths are in the same places. The story for Toni is far stronger(for reasons beyond length)but there's a beauty to the images in A Day in the Country that I simply can't resist. Those shots of the lake are the closest France has come to an other Vigo. Just looking at Toni though, which I pray does make the list even more so than some of the Renoirs I prefer it really is the perfect Renoir movie full of compassion and bite. The Spanish girl could have made for an easy misogynistic villain, but there's this absolute tragedy to her especially in regards to her eventual husband. Hell even the husband gets the right sort of characterization that the length of the film really shouldn't allow. Even as I hate him I understand why he considers himself good. Totally perfect.

[colinr0380]

I love Rules of the Game, and think it might just surpass La grande illusion this time around on my list (Don't worry Mr Kerpan, I've also picked up the MoC of Toni too!)

I have been trying to foist Rules of the Game onto my parents in their post-Downton Abbey enthusiasm for all things related to upstairs-downstairs shenanigans in country houses. No luck yet however. Rules of the Game also has one of the best hunting scenes I've ever seen on film - no skimping on the horror of the real animal deaths on display (the final death throes of the last rabbit are particularly harrowing), yet also capturing the dark thrill of the guests-turned-hunters successfully hitting their targets.

The way that this standout sequence is then folded back into the matters of the rest of the film in the extended sequence which follows of the various pairs of lovers or quarrellers making their plans in the aftermath of the shoot, and at one point being caught in the act of doing so by another before they all go back indoors, is simply masterful. The whole sequence runs the risk of becoming a digression from the main action for too long a period, but in the way that the sacrifice of these animals to class conventions prefigures the final sequence it becomes extremely important in showing the real seriousness, and real consequences, underlying the games being played out by the characters.

Matrix notes above that the film is about moments of grace between people who might be expected to be enemies. While I do agree that this leads to many touching moments, it seems to be more of a complicity between characters whose agendas occasionally coincide (the excellent commentary gets into the duplication of sets of characters to comment on each other) rather than a long lasting bond. I think this speaks to roles in the society. Most of the characters stay within the bounds and proprieties of their status. It is only when they have these boundaries removed (such as the gamekeeper and the poacher-turned-servant when they both lose their jobs) that they seem to acknowledge their similarities and come to terms with the other. That acknowledgement is all they have left, but it is not enough to build anything long lasting on, and so these moments become brief flashes before the characters part again, either by dying, being forced to leave, or by retreating back into those codes of propriety to put the correct spin on events.

It simultaneously exposes the sham and hypocrisies (and the class tensions and bigotries) inherent in this collection of characters, but also shows that this system is something that is holding everyone in that society together, and those involved in the game betray the values (or try to pretend that they are somehow beyond them) at their own cost.

[zedz]

The Rules of the Game is likely to top my list, but I find it hard to articulate just what's so brilliant about it, simply because it tackles so much and pulls it all off effortlessly. I love the way that the film keeps opening up trapdoors underneath you and landing you in an equally impeccable and quite logically related different film (romantic comedy to melodrama to farce to tragedy). These shifting moods give us a number of one-of-a-kind scenes (like the hunt and the showing off of the automaton) in which the mixture of emotions is amazingly complicated. And uniting it all is Renoir's capacious appreciation of humanity. It's only because he has conceived of all of these characters so fully that they can negotiate the tonal shifts with such deftness. When I first saw the film, I was primed for yet another cinema classic (the second greatest movie of all time, after all), but was totally unprepared for an experience so immediate and personal.

And this is leaving aside the formal brilliance of the movie!

As for other Renoirs, Toni is a definite inclusion on my list and a must-see, Une Partie de campagne is a miracle of lazy economy - how can a film that leisurely and relaxed cover so much ground in such a short time? I'll be rewatching Boudu and La Bete Humaine, but at the moment they're likely to fall short of my top 50. The Grand Illusion was the first Renoir I saw, but it's never meant all that much to me, even though I've always enjoyed it. I guess I should give that another spin as well.

If it hasn't been mentioned already, do whatever you can to track down Gremillon's La Petite Lise, a brilliant pioneering sound film. His compromised but nevertheless impressive Dainah la metisse is also probably going to tickle my list's nether regions.

EDIT: Actually, top spot is probably a coin-toss between the Renoir and The Roaring Twenties. I can't remember which one came out ahead last time.

[myrnaloyisdope]

Ooh, The Roaring Twenties is going to figure very highly on my list. The gangster film as Greek tragedy.

[matrixschmatrix]

Matrix notes above that the film is about moments of grace between people who might be expected to be enemies. While I do agree that this leads to many touching moments, it seems to be more of a complicity between characters whose agendas occasionally coincide (the excellent commentary gets into the duplication of sets of characters to comment on each other) rather than a long lasting bond. I think this speaks to roles in the society. Most of the characters stay within the bounds and proprieties of their status. It is only when they have these boundaries removed (such as the gamekeeper and the poacher-turned-servant when they both lose their jobs) that they seem to acknowledge their similarities and come to terms with the other. That acknowledgement is all they have left, but it is not enough to build anything long lasting on, and so these moments become brief flashes before the characters part again, either by dying, being forced to leave, or by retreating back into those codes of propriety to put the correct spin on events.

It simultaneously exposes the sham and hypocrisies (and the class tensions and bigotries) inherent in this collection of characters, but also shows that this system is something that is holding everyone in that society together, and those involved in the game betray the values (or try to pretend that they are somehow beyond them) at their own cost.

I've been thinking about that all weekend, how in many cases the thing that made some of the characters appeal most to me- their ability to reach rapprochement with their rivals and opposites- is in many cases a result of the very class strictures that bind them, and also could be read as a nasty reflection on Munich. It's difficult to disentangle the two, and I'm not sure that you're meant to be able to do so; I think he's more honest than to try to deny that there is a grace and a charm to the lifestyle the bourgeoisie was leading, alongside the repellent aspects. Even the reconciliation I found the most touching, that between the gamekeeper and the poacher, leads directly to murder.

It's worth pointing out, though, that almost none of the main characters are a natural fit for bourgeois Parisian society. The commentary points out how this is the case for Octave and the pilot, but I think it's no less true for Christine, who is a foreigner, la Chesnaye, who is Jewish and who apparently never feels fully comfortable with his position, Schumacher, who lives by a totally different code, and Marceau, who is still fundamentally an outsider. Even Genevieve, la Chesnaye's mistress, seems to be pushed outside the normal rules by the unexpected strength of her feelings for him, which are supposed to be very definitely circumscribed.

The only one who seems to be totally comfortable with the world she occupies is Lisette, the maid- and to the best of my recollection, she is also the only one who never gets a moment of weary grace. That's not to say that she is not a likable character, but I don't remember anything with her wherein she reveals that outside the role she feels burdened to play, she really wants to get along with people. Indeed, she's among the only ones who never considers giving up the role that's been given to her, and she motivates Octave's near betrayal of Christine at the end by demanding that he stick within his, as well. I think that might be the core of Renoir's criticism, although I think I could watch this movie half a dozen times more and reach half a dozen different conclusions.



On another note, I'm going to have to watch the Roaring Twenties again- last time I watched it, it didn't seem much distinct from the herd in terms of the Warner's Gangster box sets. I've never really been able to appreciate Cagney the way I do Bogie and Edward G. Robinson, though.

[domino harvey]

Bogart gives the screen a constant cool and Robinson the touch of class, but Cagney always strikes the viewer with a scrappy likability. This is what makes the films where he plays total shits so fascinating, because the audience hates and loves to respond so positively to his screen persona

[swo17]

If it hasn't been mentioned already, do whatever you can to track down Gremillon's La Petite Lise, a brilliant pioneering sound film. His compromised but nevertheless impressive Dainah la metisse is also probably going to tickle my list's nether regions.

Speaking of Grémillon, I'm inclined to mention that his two Spanish films from the decade are available now with English subs if you know where to look for them. La dolorosa is an adaptation of a famous Spanish zarzuela (like an opera) about a woman who falls for a brute, and the man who can rescue her torn between his love for her and his commitment to God as a monk. The songs are memorable (some of them continue to be interpreted by singers like Plácido Domingo) and some of the visuals are quite nice as well. ¡Centinela, alerta! (co-directed by Buñuel) has a somewhat similar plot though the somber religious overtones are replaced with some rather zany, almost surreal antics in the military. The love stories in both are rather affecting, and both films are recommended for a more complete appraisal of the director.